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Thread: Trump's Pardons

  1. #21
    TheDarkKnight's Avatar Compliance will be rewarded
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    Default Re: Trump's Pardons

    Trump is of course the most corrupt president in a generation at a minimum, and he even managed to shake the faith in at least one cultist, if only briefly.

    Trump supporter shocked after president commutes sentence of man who swindled him out of his life savings

    President Donald Trump last week commuted the prison sentence of a man named Fred Davis Clark, Jr., who in 2015 was convicted for crimes related to a $300 million dollar Ponzi scheme.
    Now the Tampa Bay Times reports that one of the man's victims, a Trump supporter named Kimball Pugmire, is not happy with the president's decision.


    Pugmire lost his entire life savings thanks to Clark's Ponzi scheme, which the United States Department of Justice says "involved sales at Cay Clubs Resorts and Marinas... to approximately 1,400 investors in the Florida Keys and elsewhere."

    *snip*

    Pugmire also said that the president's decision to commute the fraudster's sentence had shaken his faith in whether Trump has been truthful with his supporters.


    "I had been trying to forget all this, but it makes you wonder, even being a Trump supporter, about his honesty," he said.



    Genuinely hilarious. Big brain energy coming from these people.

    I can honestly say at this point that I don't care any more about Trump supporters getting hurt by his actions. He didn't hide who he was at all, and he never cared at all about his constituents.

    That being said, Donald Trump for being a corrupt piece of .
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  2. #22

    Default Re: Trump's Pardons

    I love watching """liberals""" rage about people getting let out of prison.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Trump's Pardons

    I love when "conservatives" thump their chests about Trump and the GOP serving "law and order" only to turn around and pardon corrupt white collar criminals because they either bribed him or he sympathizes with white collar criminals as one himself.

    See, I can play pointless finger pointing too.

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  4. #24

    Default Re: Trump's Pardons

    *source needed* Durr hurr, orange man bad because orange man bad! The fact you're willing to argue that Trump has paid off white collar cronies and this is very, very bad while Biden literally and publicly pays off his cronies and allies to stfu about any election irregularity is just hilarious.

    Stop pretending your argument is any different for the ""valid"" election of Joe Biden is than your silly argument that Trump's ""invalid"" election in 2016. You can't supply persuasive evidence for either proposition.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Trump's Pardons

    I don't recall anything about Future President Joe Biden being the topic of this thread. Pretty sure it is about Soon To Be Ex-President Trump and his corrupt pardons.

    I might be mistaken of course.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Moving on from the blind, ignorant, and misdirected rage at the impending inauguration, anyone want to bet on if the Tiger King will get his pardon?

    Sure would provide a wonderful capstone to this terrible administration and how it has nearly exclusively pardoned rich people or associates of Trump. Sure does suck for the people they hurt and/or the country they betrayed.

    Edit: Bannon, two rappers (?!) and a former mayor of Detroit (Kwame Kilpatrick) pardoned.

    What a surprise, Trump pardoned another friend of his.

    It's almost like he is abusing the powers of his office but gosh darnit remember that time Obama wore a tan suit and how outrageous that looked?

    Edit 2: I remember Kilpatrick from a long time ago. 24 felony counts, 28 year sentence. Pissed off both left and right in Michigan.

    I can't imagine the good people of Michigan are going to like Trump abusing his pardon power to punish Detroit for Biden winning in that state.
    Last edited by TheDarkKnight; January 20, 2021 at 01:03 AM.
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  6. #26
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Trump's Pardons

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight View Post
    Edit 2: I remember Kilpatrick from a long time ago. 24 felony counts, 28 year sentence. Pissed off both left and right in Michigan.

    I can't imagine the good people of Michigan are going to like Trump abusing his pardon power to punish Detroit for Biden winning in that state.
    The ones that would remember that in 4 years are the ones that wouldn't vote for Trump anyway. Trump extended the swamp with the pardons but that's not going to hurt him politically. We've seen that.
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  7. #27
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    Default Re: Trump's Pardons

    Yep. And the hilarious part is that Bannon defrauded Trump supporters.

    And they still cheer for Trump...It's like the rat that keeps on touching the electrified cheese.
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  8. #28
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    Default Re: Trump's Pardons

    Pretty good summary of the corruption of the last batch of pardons from Trump.

    Pretty incredible seeing people continue to support private citizen Trump's actions while in office.

    If any man despises me, that is his problem. My only concern is not doing or saying anything deserving of contempt.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Trump's Pardons

    Should the Presidential office have the pardon power limited or removed?
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  10. #30
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    Default Re: Trump's Pardons

    I have always thought that the power was a bit too powerful since there were no checks at all on it, and the last four years definitely have confirmed that no checks on it at all is a major problem.

    The problem is I don't know how you could realistically limit it (or get people to introduce an amendment to do it)


    Associates/friends of the President? Kind of hard to define that, but I don't think this is unreasonable at all.


    People who have worked for the President, in any capacity, at any point in life? Fair. There's no reason anyone should be able to ("theoretically") get people to commit crimes for you and then pardon them for covering it up.


    Blood/marriage relation? Definitely fair, and a clear abuse of office as well. Would have stopped Clinton from pardoning his brother. What a useless pardon to since he had already served his time and it wasn't seemingly affecting his career anyway.


    And make it 100% clear that the pardon power cannot be used on yourself. Trump bringing that up 3 years ago as a possibility raised more red flags than a CCP rally.

    I understand why the founders put it in the constitution, but I feel it is just another example of the founders having too much faith in people.
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  11. #31
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Trump's Pardons

    @Aex: That's a different discussion that should better be in the Academy since it refers to politics in general. I will go by this:

    While in the USA the presidential pardon deals with federal crimes so you can still be prosecuted for state crimes and rot in prison, in many many more states a presidential/Royal pardon is a done deal.
    The President of the Greek Republic has no other real powers but she still has the pardon. And boy, is it far reaching... When I was a conscript in the airforce, then-President Karolos Papoulias was pardoning air force penalties at national holidays (28th October and 25th March). I.e. say you're late to go to your post. That would earn you 4 days of detention in the base I served. I.e. you wouldn't be allowed to leave the base for 4 days and it had NOTHING to do with criminal record. Well, the President commuted all such penalties of 10 days or less or something. They weren't erased from your file and you would serve more days if you gathered 20 days of detention during your time of service but you wouldn't have to stay in the base.

    I.e. While USA's pardons are not a big deal frankly, for most nations that I know of, they are.


    So, how you limit it for the USA president:
    Simply put, give House the right to overturn a presidential pardon before it goes into effect, by simple majority vote. And then, give 20 days for presidential pardons before they go into effect to give time in the House to vote on them.
    Last edited by alhoon; January 22, 2021 at 11:11 PM.
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  12. #32
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    Default Re: Trump's Pardons

    I'm not sure tying the power of pardon with congress would be a good idea. It would only be used as a dick waving tool between the president and a hostile congress and all you'd end up doing is placing whoever was going to be pardoned in the middle of a humiliating push and pull political game that would do them far more harm than good.

    Imagine you're some guy who was arrested for a dui or smoking weed and Trump/Biden wanted to pardon you but the majority of congress is democrat so they voted no and now the media is railing all over you on national television spinning things out of context. Not to mention that some dickwads might start protesting against you because you're beign pardoned by Trump/Biden.

    on the flip-side if congress is not hostile, then it will just rubberstamp whatever the preident proposes, so the waiting period will serve no purpose whatsoever.
    Last edited by Sir Adrian; January 26, 2021 at 09:44 AM.
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  13. #33
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    Default Re: Trump's Pardons

    On second thought, I think the presidents themselves abuse the power. The queen has the royal pardon, but rarely uses it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_...les_in_Britain
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  14. #34
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    Default Re: Trump's Pardons

    The romanian president also has absolute pardon powers and all of them, even Ceausescu, used them sparringly. It's a cultural thing more than anything.
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  15. #35
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    Default Re: Trump's Pardons

    They fact they wait until the last day, even hours of their tenure to use the pardon displays the scumminess of these people, but unfortunately politicians, and even voters to be honest don't seem to mind too much?
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  16. #36
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    Default Re: Trump's Pardons

    I agreee with you fully, but that's a cultural problem. In some countries, like the US, mass pardons are seen as a viable means of washing your image clean as you leave the office. Killed 20000 civilians using drone strikes in Pakistan? Doesn't matter he pardoned 30 people. Embezzeled funds and filled the White House with your incomptent Children fo the Corn family? Doesn't matter he pardoned 40 people. The mentality needs to change, not the system.
    Last edited by Sir Adrian; January 26, 2021 at 04:29 PM.
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  17. #37

    Default Re: Trump's Pardons

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Should the Presidential office have the pardon power limited or removed?
    How would you limit it? The pardon power is specifically intended as a limit on the Justice System. And by Justice System I mean everything from the crime committed to the law enforcement actions taken, to the court room trials, to the judge's ruling, to the sentences enacted.

    Which part of these would you strike down? All, some, none? The wording just says the President shall have the to grant reprieves and pardons except in cases of Impeachment. Would we then maybe amend the Constitution and say, when he does so he has to have the utter balls and explain why he's doing it in the document when he's signing it?
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  18. #38
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    Default Re: Trump's Pardons

    Maybe just say that if a close familial connection or conflict of interest can be proved, congress/senate could overturn the pardon?
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  19. #39

    Default Re: Trump's Pardons

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Maybe just say that if a close familial connection or conflict of interest can be proved, congress/senate could overturn the pardon?
    This is difficult to put into legal language in a way that would prevent radical interpretation. Of course, this can be the case for literally anything, but look at the issues facing the 2nd impeachment of Donald Trump and the rather radical interpretation of the Constitution used by both parties to justify opposing or supporting the impeachment. I think the ideas previously mentioned, of putting barriers and a separation of powers on the power of the pardon, would be far more effective to, at the very least, limit kleptocratic pardons.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Trump's Pardons

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Mountain View Post
    This is difficult to put into legal language in a way that would prevent radical interpretation. Of course, this can be the case for literally anything, but look at the issues facing the 2nd impeachment of Donald Trump and the rather radical interpretation of the Constitution used by both parties to justify opposing or supporting the impeachment. I think the ideas previously mentioned, of putting barriers and a separation of powers on the power of the pardon, would be far more effective to, at the very least, limit kleptocratic pardons.
    I think you're right. Limiting 'kleptocracy' is after all the ultimate goal here.
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