Reducing number of turns

[hammi]

So far I have been liking the changes made in this mod, it actually provides much slower, more rpg oriented (qualities of family members matter now) and more challenging experience.

Only thing I dislike is the number of turns, that's pretty much ridicilous - 1000+ turns ! Several months to see the end game units.. That's just too much for me. A one action packed turn is better than several just clicked through. Even in vanilla, 2 years per turn, getting to see Timurids - not to mention Aztecs (haven't seen them yet) - takes quite awhile, and running out of turns hasn't been a problem for me.

I guess this preference of mine is quite different compared to majority, but I'd really like to play with the end game units for once. AI is so easily beaten that 1000+ turns for that task is way too much.

Anyway, I was wondering about changing the timescale back and to what degree the building times, population growth rates and population levels for upgrading cities work with 2 years/1 year per turn ? Just in case someone has tried it already.

Also, is there any plans to provide a version of the mod with different timescales ?

[crossev]

in your dlv folder go to data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign and open the descr_strat.txt and change the timescale to whatever you would like in DLV it is .5. I have changed it back to 1. I have kept the building times the same but if you want to change the build times back to Vanilla then you will need the vanilla version of export_descr_buildings file or you can go through the EDB file and change the build times your self by cutting them in half



Hope that helps

[repman]

@hammi
if you choose 1.0 (double the vanilla speed) the building times of DLV will still fit. Maybe the Age Traits will not fit anymore. The other stuff..watch out
Please report feedback of playing this way. Maybe DLV should go back to1.0


repman

[Ieuano]

please 1y/pt

[hammi]

Thank you for the replies and help all.

I think I will try 2 years per turn and see how things go. I'll post once I get the campaign more forward.

500+ turns is still a bit too much for me, I like how limited number of turns make the gameplay harder - much more difficult to conquer the victory requirements in 240 or so turns than in 500, not to mention 1000.

Anyway, just wondering, has anyone here run out of turns when using 2 years per turn ? 1 year per turn ?

[derdrakken]

Thank you for the replies and help all.

I think I will try 2 years per turn and see how things go. I'll post once I get the campaign more forward.

500+ turns is still a bit too much for me, I like how limited number of turns make the gameplay harder - much more difficult to conquer the victory requirements in 240 or so turns than in 500, not to mention 1000.

Anyway, just wondering, has anyone here run out of turns when using 2 years per turn ? 1 year per turn ?

I want DLV 1.9 to be the only game you ever play...FOREVER !

Kidding of course. If you want to go to one turn per year, you'll also want to go into export_descr_character...txt and modify the AGE related traits near the top of the file. All the thresholds will need to be reduced by half.

Otherwise, there will be very old "YOUNG" peeps running around your map.

The campaign experience traits will also be hosed...oh, dear...I'll have to give this more thought when I have the files in front of me...

Cheers!

dd

[derdrakken]

One thing we are planning for in future releases is the advent of new units tied to a broader spectrum of events rather than two big batches which come *plop* when the mongrels arrive and *plop plop* when the Timi's hove into view.

This way more advanced units will drip, drip, drip out in a more evolutionary fashion...more historical and I think also more fun.

Cheers!

dd

[hammi]

Sounds good derdrakken.

I tried out briefly 2 years per turn, cut down the settlement production times in half for it.

Still, things are a bit wonky, mainly in the trait area as you forsaw.

I think I'll put the campaign on the shelf for now.

I really like the mod however. The campaign script is exactly what is needed to prevent too fast player expansion, that combined with dearmad's more rebellious generals if the treasury goes to red creates very unique challenges. I love it.

The crazy amount of turns combined with slowish turns ( BigMap is quite slow on my computer ) makes the campaigns too long for my taste.

I'd suggest creating early, late and high campaigns to be created at some point, then the amount of turns wouldn't matter so much.

I know a lot of people really prefer the long, epic campaigns, so I guess this (number of turns) just an issue of taste.

[Immanuel]

I second Hammi. LOVE this mod, the RP elements, the campaign xp, the field cost script, the detailed map, the AI, but man does it take forever. I can't even get to the point where my towns start upgrading or collecting guilds, let alone seeing the Timurids. Okay, I know I have a short attention span but a full day's play should get me SOMEWHERE, right? Right?

[Rog]

The best mod I ever played... :-)

I already tried a turkish campaign 1y/turn with DLV 1.8... I set the timescale to 1.0 and I didn´t noticed anything wrong. Then 1.9 was released which is more sophisticated and more complex and tuned for 0.5... But I have the same thoughts about campaign lenght and late units...a bit too slow. I personally feel, somewhere between 0.5 and 1.0 would be ideal, but I know it is not possible.

What about an experimental release tuned for 1.0 only to see, how people react? :-)

[xxax]

I was wondering, if i change the start date in descr_strat to something different, will that work?

[derdrakken]

I was wondering, if i change the start date in descr_strat to something different, will that work?

Xxax that will probably work (I haven't tried it myself) as long as you can get over all the historical starting characters being transported a bit into their future. Cheers! dd

[xxax]

Xxax that will probably work (I haven't tried it myself) as long as you can get over all the historical starting characters being transported a bit into their future. Cheers! dd

where do I do that?

[large jack]

I find this turn/years thing a real pain in the rear. Why was this not a problem in Rome Total War??? When I played Vanilla the first time King William of England was still hail and hearty in 1130 AD... which would make him about a hundred and something. This breaks immersion for me, and the only way to correct it is with over long campaigns. How did CA mess this up?

[derdrakken]

Not that I'm completely lazy (oh, that's right I am), but I think there may be another way to skin this cat without rejiggering all the scripts that have been written to 2 turns per year (Age script, campaign exp. script...yada, yada...I know, it's my problem not yours). Back to the cat, if we can reward you all with more things happening gradually over time, so that you don't have to wait for the mongol invasion to start seeing some more advanced units...and frankly I have yet to make it to the Mongol invasion in DLV so I know what you mean by short attention span...but I digress. Continuous rewards is the ticket, that way you'll feel like you're making progress (check), technology evolves more historically (check), you'll want to play one more turn before going to bed at 4:00 in the morning (check). We here at DLV HQ are working hard so that you can fall in love with DLV all over again.

Cheers! dd

[hravatskopravo]

Not that I'm completely lazy (oh, that's right I am), but I think there may be another way to skin this cat without rejiggering all the scripts that have been written to 2 turns per year (Age script, campaign exp. script...yada, yada...I know, it's my problem not yours). Back to the cat, if we can reward you all with more things happening gradually over time, so that you don't have to wait for the mongol invasion to start seeing some more advanced units...and frankly I have yet to make it to the Mongol invasion in DLV so I know what you mean by short attention span...but I digress. Continuous rewards is the ticket, that way you'll feel like you're making progress (check), technology evolves more historically (check), you'll want to play one more turn before going to bed at 4:00 in the morning (check). We here at DLV HQ are working hard so that you can fall in love with DLV all over again.

Cheers! dd

ill give a major HOOAH to that DLV HQ

[danes]

Not that I'm completely lazy (oh, that's right I am), but I think there may be another way to skin this cat without rejiggering all the scripts that have been written to 2 turns per year (Age script, campaign exp. script...yada, yada...I know, it's my problem not yours). Back to the cat, if we can reward you all with more things happening gradually over time, so that you don't have to wait for the mongol invasion to start seeing some more advanced units...and frankly I have yet to make it to the Mongol invasion in DLV so I know what you mean by short attention span...but I digress. Continuous rewards is the ticket, that way you'll feel like you're making progress (check), technology evolves more historically (check), you'll want to play one more turn before going to bed at 4:00 in the morning (check). We here at DLV HQ are working hard so that you can fall in love with DLV all over again.

Cheers! dd

yes please. more events which allow for gradual increase in tech will be brilliant.. right now i got every major neighbor down to their final prvoinces but im still using spear militia with mailed knights...

[derdrakken]

I find this turn/years thing a real pain in the rear. Why was this not a problem in Rome Total War??? When I played Vanilla the first time King William of England was still hail and hearty in 1130 AD... which would make him about a hundred and something. This breaks immersion for me, and the only way to correct it is with over long campaigns. How did CA mess this up?

So let's talk dirty little secrets of Total War.

CA designed RTW for a 200-300 turn game. We start around 250BC (if memory serves...just go with me on this). At 2 turns per year, we've got the world conquered around 100BC. This is 150 years before the Romans conquered Britain, but we give 'em a pass, cause we love the game. The Family Tree scales to seven generations. Assuming guy at the top is 40, and next row is 20 at the start, 20 years between generations, we'll get to the seventh generation in 80 years (gen 3 born in 1 year). In about 150 years from start (300 turns) everyone will be dead...game over.

Now I believe team CA-Oz took the same engine and said we'll use it to simulate a time period from right after the Norman conquest (1080) to the discovery of the New World (1492ish)--BAD DESIGN CHOICE. That's 400 years...800 turns if we use the RTW 2 turns/year. But they kept the same Family Tree that only scales to about 150 years before the last 7th gen babies are dying of old age. What to do? Patch over the problem...switch to Turns (with 2 years per turn), have people live to be 120 years old, and hope no one cares/notices.

But of course, we rabid historical reality buffs do notice and set to modding. While we can live with the Romans taking Britain 150 years too early, we'll go bonkers if the New World is discovered in 1250. Unfortunately, whether we adopt 1tpy or keep 2tpy, a game can't last more than about 300 turns because we still have the same family tree problem. And when the last of our septegenarian 7th gen babies shuffles off this mortal coil, it's game over.

Am I crazy? Please tell me I got this wrong:hmmm:

Cheers!

dd

Edit: To be fair, I don't know (since I've never gotten that far) if M2TW uses the same family tree code. It would be easy enough to code around this problem...but family tree is not accessible to modding to my knowledge (boy, there's a lot I don't know for being so full of myself). Here would be the fix: delete the generation 3-tiers above the King (arbitrary choice). Those branches of the family tree that get pruned have all their family members become generals. MTW used a similar scheme although it was much more severe...uncles of the king were no longer eligible for succession. Back to my fix, then the family tree could scale for an infinite number of turns. Maybe something magical happens when you get to the 7th generation in M2TW...in my spare time (ha!) I want to take my Danish campaign that far and see what happens.

[Lord_Calidor]

Here's a suggestions for those tech advance triggers: number of foundries (blacksmiths), normalized by number of provinces. For example - for every 5 provinces, to advance the tech by 1 lvl, one should have 1 Heavy Armourer-type of building. So, if some nation holds 1-5 provinces, it needs 1 HA building, 6-10 provinces = 2 HA, 11-15 prov. = 3 HA, etc.
Eg. if French hold 15 provinces, they must build at least 3 HA buldings (anywhere) to unlock first batch of ubercoolness.

Now, I chose foundries 'coz as I remember, every armourer building above leather tanner needs specific resource (iron?), resulting in a nice battles for few key provinces with this resource.

[aduellist]

Have you thought about including Realistic Building Tree 2.0? It breaks up unit availibility into eight "eras" and also introduces cross-dependencies for building construction.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=77697