Christmas and what it means to us?

[conon394]

You really are scraping the barrel now for don't tell me that Pagans actually worshipped Jesus Christ our Creator?

Err you meant son of the creator?

[Prodromos]

24/25 December is the birthday of the pagan god SOL INVICTUS.

Christians used this date for the birthday of Christus to replace this popular pagan god.

Jesus' birth date was calculated to be December 25 long before the cult of Sol Invictus was established.

Pagan celebration had nothing to do with Christmas date | Macon Telegraph

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

I don't care about the opinion of some evangelical scientists:

Aurelian strengthened the position of the Sun god Sol Invictus as the main divinity of the Roman pantheon. His intention was to give to all the peoples of the Empire, civilian or soldiers, easterners or westerners, a single god they could believe in without betraying their own gods. The center of the cult was a new temple, built in 274 and dedicated on December 25^[43] of that year in the Campus Agrippae in Rome, with great decorations financed by the spoils of the Palmyrene Empire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurelian#Religious_reform

Its ruling scientific opinion, that the 25th December was the birthday of Sol Invictus.

Only some clerical scientists claim different.

[Akar]

Akar,

You really are scraping the barrel now for don't tell me that Pagans actually worshipped Jesus Christ our Creator?

What? Maybe you need glasses or something, but that's clearly not what I said. The winter solstice was a holy day for many pagans, but that doesn't mean they literally worshiped the day itself nor that they were somehow christ worshipers. I have no idea how you've arrived at those points unless you're intentionally arguing in bad faith (spoiler warning: you are).

[Prodromos]

Its ruling scientific opinion, that the 25th December was the birthday of Sol Invictus.

That's not the issue. I was addressing the claim that Christians made up December 25 as Jesus' birthday as part of an attempt to copy or hijack the festival of Sol Invictus. In reality, the historical evidence shows that Christians began to associate Jesus' birth with Dec 25 long before Sol Invictus was established.

[basics]

Akar,

I don't worship Christmas Day, rather celebrate that Christ Jesus came into the world at all. We celebrate that He came into our lives just as on your birthday your parents celebrate your coming into their lives. Oh we know that December was not the time, what we do know are some of what took place on that day just as your parents will remember. For whatever reason the early church chose 25th December I couldn't care less because I know and see how it has become most probably the most celebrated day ever in the history of man. God came into the world as a man to eventually die and rise again for the sins of all them that He died for. Jonathan Cahn on youtube has pinpointed the most likely time this happened and it all fits with the Scriptures.

[Akar]

I don't worship Christmas Day

I never said you did, bud. You were the one that suggested people were worshiping Dec 25th.

Your entire post is incoherent rambling that has nothing to do with my post. No idea what the hell you're on about lmao

[Derc]

I don't worship Christmas Day, rather celebrate that Christ Jesus came into the world at all.

Neither do I. I celebrate that it is a time of peace. A time to rest, to relax, a time, no matter for what reason, that is still considered to be somewhat holy, worldwide. Holidays starts. Holydays will end. Two weeks until the cycle continues, and where you'll look forward to it for the rest of the next blessed upcoming year.
Ah, it is over once more. Did the cycle already start again?

[basics]

Err you meant son of the creator?

conon394,

No, I meant that Jesus Christ is God, One of the Three Persons that make God. He is the I AM that I AM as is the Father and the Holy Spirit.

[conon394]

That reduces the crucifixion to a meaningless sham.

[Prodromos]

That reduces the crucifixion to a meaningless sham.

Why

[basics]

That reduces the crucifixion to a meaningless sham.

conon394,

The curse and the Law demand death and hell for all them that cannot keep it because sin falls on everyone meaning no one person can make it back into God's favour. Therefore the plan was even before the worlds were made that Jesus Christ would be the Sacrifice to satisfy the Law and the curse of sin. So, if it was a meaningless sham then Jesus died in vain as Paul writes yet that is not the case because out of each generation of mankind people have been saved from the curse and the Law through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That is an experience apparently you have not had so how can you decry what you don't know of? One day everyone who ever lived will find out whether it was as you say that being when they all bow down to confess Jesus Christ is Lord, is God.

[antaeus]

I guess what they're getting at is that the eternal nature of Jesus' divinity does render the sacrifice made during the crucifixion as more of a publicity stunt than anything else. If one lives for ever in some form or another, then giving one's life away seems less a dramatic statement of sacrifice, and more a bit of fun?

"Hey... look at this trick I can do... now I'm dead... now I'm not... dead... not... dead... not... woohoo"

[Akar]

Not to mention that god could have just snapped his fingers and fixed the whole situation without all the pomp and circumstance...

[basics]

You miss the point again that our story is about God creating us not for ourselves, rather for His good pleasure. We are only here because of that. Of course He needn't have bothered, there's no question about that, but then we wouldn't be here and this planet wouldn't have the extraordinary existence it has.

[conon394]

You miss the point again that our story is about God creating us not for ourselves, rather for His good pleasure. We are only here because of that. Of course He needn't have bothered, there's no question about that, but then we wouldn't be here and this planet wouldn't have the extraordinary existence it has.

Well now that is a fairly depressing take on our existence. Just a meat puppets for a creators self centered amusement.

The curse and the Law demand death and hell for all them that cannot keep it because sin falls on everyone meaning no one person can make it back into God's favour.

Or at least that is how Augustine, and than Calvin and company see it. You do realize others have had differing opinions say Pelagius I'm sure you have read his views right?

Therefore the plan was even before the worlds were made that Jesus Christ would be the Sacrifice to satisfy the Law and the curse of sin

But again what sacrifice if Jesus is in fact god there is no sacrifice. And last I checked maybe an all powerful creator could have just headed that off without planing failure into the system.

[Akar]

Christianity makes a whole lot more sense if you don't accept the nonsensical trinitarian perspective.

[Cope]

Well now that is a fairly depressing take on our existence. Just a meat puppets for a creators self centered amusement.

God's creation of man is comparable to procreation (the creation of new life in one's own image). The parent-child relationship (as exemplified through God's role as the Father) is not characterized by puppetry or "self-centered amusement".

Though even if one were to accept your summary of the Christian perspective, the typical atheist view that life is the product of random collisions between inexplicably existing elements is still equally as "depressing".

But again what sacrifice if Jesus is in fact god there is no sacrifice.

The sacrifice was corpus Christi. Christ's torment and the material destruction of His flesh gave humanity a passage to redemption.

And last I checked maybe an all powerful creator could have just headed that off without planing failure into the system.

You're assuming the existence of systemic "failure" in accordance with your own reasoning. What objective accounting which proves the fallibility of the Word can you provide?

[Derc]

You miss the point again that our story is about God creating us not for ourselves, rather for His good pleasure. We are only here because of that. Of course He needn't have bothered, there's no question about that, but then we wouldn't be here and this planet wouldn't have the extraordinary existence it has.

Well now that is a fairly depressing take on our existence. Just a meat puppets for a creators self centered amusement.

But watching humanity is indeed very funny.
"Hohoho, these humans think high of themselves once again. Let's throw a little plague at them and see how quickly they crumble."

[basics]

Having been created with the power to will, to reason and to create to a smaller dimension a family of our own in the pursuit of happiness, to borrow a phrase from you Yanks, what our Creator has in store is much greater as immortality is the end game in His plan. You see His good pleasure doesn't stop when we die physically for if it did what was the point of it all? No, His good pleasure has rewards and punishment as our lives take on a new meaning after death. I just don't understand how men see this but will not believe it to be so. I mean if men are so intelligent why is the world in such a state. Singularly everyone has an answer yet collectively it becomes an impossiblity as we experience for the most part because it is now accepted that we are here by sheer chance. The thing is, the good news that is, is that Jesus Christ our Creator will come back sending shock waves around the world as the stage is set for rewards and for punishment. Be led astray no more and seek Him whilst the opportunity is still there.