1st Cohort Takes Faster Casualties?

[Legio X Gemina]

I noticed during my playthroughs that the 1st cohort (size 400) seems to take casualties much, much faster than the standard 200 unit legionarii. At first, I thought it was because 400 soldiers means more units in action, therefore more unit losses.

However, if I took it from a percentage standpoint, the 1st cohort takes much, much more casualties. In a straight up 1v1 against identical units, my 1st cohort lost about 100 troops (25% its size). My same legionarii unit against an identical troop lost 20 (10%).

This wasn't just a singular battle either. This was observed over multiple battles. They also seem more prone to being killed by missile projectiles.

It almost feels as if they share the same health pool as the 200 unit legionariis, but simply have 400 units, and therefore dying at an accelerated pace as a result. Am I going crazy?

[SilUns]

I'm sure the experts can add some clarity to this later, but since I asked about this exact issue on the DEI discord a while ago, perhaps I can relay what I learned then:

There are several effects that contribute to the first cohort taking greater losses in combat. In the context of the whole battle, the AI focuses down units with the 'encourage' ability, especially with its missiles, leading the first cohort to losing disproportionately more health prior to the melee engagement.

However, the effect that might be the most important, especially in the 1v1 test scenario that you mention, is that the chance of actual entity deaths seems to not be purely based on individual model health but to depend also on the percentage of overall health of the entire unit. This means that if the 400-size unit and 200-size unit both reach the fraction of health that makes individual deaths likely, the 400-size unit then has more opportunities for deaths to trigger and so loses men faster.

I admit that I still don't fully get it.

[Legio X Gemina]

Exactly, that's what I'm beginning to suspect. I don't have it verified yet, but my suspicions are exactly as you mention. The number of men in a unit share a unit health pool, and the people who die represent that health pool going down. Therefore, a 200 man unit is the same as a 400 man unit. The rate of death should be similar. However, that should mean from a % based I should have only lost like 40 men if I'm losing 10% men on average in other units in 200 man units. So weird!

[KAM 2150]

Correct, there is individual and unit HP. Especially from ranged attacks, unit might lose only 10 out of 200 men but actually lose 30% of total HP.

You can't see it really in Rome 2 but you can easily track it in Warhammer. For example in Warhammer my most extreme case was when I got Greatswords down up only 40% of total HP until next volley started dropping units.

The smaller unit is, the longer it takes for deaths to happen but once they do, they go one after another. For example elephants often do not die in melee for long time but once you see them dropping numbers, whole unit might be wiped out in seconds.

[Legio X Gemina]

Correct, there is individual and unit HP. Especially from ranged attacks, unit might lose only 10 out of 200 men but actually lose 30% of total HP.

You can't see it really in Rome 2 but you can easily track it in Warhammer. For example in Warhammer my most extreme case was when I got Greatswords down up only 40% of total HP until next volley started dropping units.

The smaller unit is, the longer it takes for deaths to happen but once they do, they go one after another. For example elephants often do not die in melee for long time but once you see them dropping numbers, whole unit might be wiped out in seconds.

I guess the question in the end is: does the Prima Cohort (400 man) have the same over HP pool as a 200 unit cohort? I was under the assumption that a Prima Cohort would have both numbers and overall unit HP doubled. At the moment it feels like they have a 400 unit number with the HP of that of a 200 manned unit.

[MoraleBooster]

Would make sense for the prima cohort to get a double HP pool aswell

[KAM 2150]

It has double HP pool. It is basically unit squad size X entity HP. So 200 unit would be 200 x 70 = 14,000; First Cohort is 400 x 70 = 24,000 HP.

[Legio X Gemina]

Oh dang. It just feels so darn weird that they die so quickly rate wise! Thanks for the prompt suppor

[KAM 2150]

Yes, it is weird. Like I said, above, game sometimes cuts corners when to start dropping off individual soldiers in a unit due to HP loss so the more soldiers you have there, the higher chance for them to die.

[Alesandros]

Yeah, most battles where the enemy has more missile units than I do, I usually just put my 1st/Eagle Cohort behind my front line in Testudo formation and back a little ways. Once the main battle starts, my archers / Cav usually take care of the missile units, then I maneuver my 1st/Eagle Cohort around the flanks with my skirmishers (other light infantry) to flank / envelope the enemy.