k-pop.

[mishkin]

Education helps you to get better than other people, to be superior. Be it superiority to your parents, your neighbors, or the poor fellows living next to your country.

What if everyone has education? then suddenly you're not better anymore. In fact, it's probably even more frustrating to remain average and have less prospect than your parents ever were after two decades of life wasted in schools, knowing that no matter how hard you try, this is it. This is your life now.

What would you give them, then?

we are talking about different educations. I was referring rather to a moral, values or purely intellectual education, not to an education as part of a professional career. (In any case I must say that you are not at all "better" than someone else for having a brighter or longer academic career).

[basics]

AqD,

It would appear that a reply to this thread has been lost so let me say that education is fine but couple that with real life experience and then you have real life value. One doesn't have to have letters after their name to be a valued member of society.

[Donny Crane]

Mishkin

Apply all of what you said and apply physical damage and tell me your opinion of ballet.

[basics]

To become good at anything takes application and a lot of self discipline especially if another source is paying to make you successful. Then the demands can be high, in some cases very high. That has always been the case as far as I can see.

[AqD]

we are talking about different educations. I was referring rather to a moral, values or purely intellectual education, not to an education as part of a professional career.

Wouldn't such education lead them to have more questions on themselves and try to find meaning in their meaningless life? Suicide rate tends to be much higher in countries whose citizens are well educated and well informed.

(In any case I must say that you are not at all "better" than someone else for having a brighter or longer academic career).

but you still are, statistically, which is the reason many countries allocate fund for education in the first place.

[mishkin]

Mishkin

Apply all of what you said and apply physical damage and tell me your opinion of ballet.

Yes, horrible. Connon mentioned earlier other examples of exploited children.

Wouldn't such education lead them to have more questions on themselves and try to find meaning in their meaningless life? Suicide rate tends to be much higher in countries whose citizens are well educated and well informed.

So we should not educate children to be compassionate, have a critical spirit etc? should we educate producers? proletariat?

but you still are, statistically, which is the reason many countries allocate fund for education in the first place.

IYou continue talking about strictly academic education. Nobody stops being an amoral jerk by getting a bachelor's or a doctorate.

[AqD]

So we should not educate children to be compassionate, have a critical spirit etc? should we educate producers? proletariat?

What can you possibly educate them to stop the desire to stand out, to be special and unique? Would you fill their heads with others' problems so that they wouldn't be able to see their own?

[conon394]

Mishkin

Apply all of what you said and apply physical damage and tell me your opinion of ballet.

There will always be a tension in any physical sport, dance, music, acting, modeling profession. If you want to be good you almost always have to start early and commit to it. A physical one of those will see injuries to a child. The interaction between parents desires and the child's and the profession demands are always potentially messy and can skew into abuse. From the outside how to tell the difference between truly self driven aspiration solidly supported by committed parents, to parents pushing for reasons of their own and in the extreme willfully ignoring signs of exploitation. Or for older entrants just being duped into being the low grade expendable talent pool to keep money flowing?

The question I suppose is is K-pop any more exploitative than the path that is the system that produces US college football or basketball?

[basics]

mishkin,

Don't get onto me for saying this but as a young boy becoming a man the effort, time and money spent chasing females could be quite exhausting, sometimes a bit depressing and yes good fun. Life is a bit of a ballet.

[mishkin]

mishkin,

Don't get onto me for saying this but as a young boy becoming a man the effort, time and money spent chasing females could be quite exhausting, sometimes a bit depressing and yes good fun. Life is a bit of a ballet.

Why are you telling me this? How does this relate to exploited children/teenagers? Are you comparing situations in which you suffer, but you get some satisfaction? is this "who wants something, has to suffer to get it"? The companies for which they work obtain the benefits, the parents who put their children to train eight hours a day have some sick benefits, the children / adolescents usually prefer to limit themselves to going to school, playing a bit and, yes, trying to have some sex.

[basics]

makawa,

What I am saying is that for children growing up into an adult world life can filled with ups and downs regardless of any ambitions.

[Common Soldier]

There will always be a tension in any physical sport, dance, music, acting, modeling profession. If you want to be good you almost always have to start early and commit to it. A physical one of those will see injuries to a child. The interaction between parents desires and the child's and the profession demands are always potentially messy and can skew into abuse. From the outside how to tell the difference between truly self driven aspiration solidly supported by committed parents, to parents pushing for reasons of their own and in the extreme willfully ignoring signs of exploitation. Or for older entrants just being duped into being the low grade expendable talent pool to keep money flowing?

The question I suppose is is K-pop any more exploitative than the path that is the system that produces US college football or basketball?

You ask a good question, and I would say yes, K-pop is more exploitive than the American football or basketball college systems. For one things K-pop has a lot more control over the personal aspects of a person's life which han.the US sport programs. The US sport programs don't want nsist you dress a new have your hair in a particular style. And the sport programs don't control who you can date either.

Your career is possibly longer in the sports, you might be playing into your 40's in the sports, and many college football and basketball stats have gone onto to do greater things? How many have become president of Korea or major politicians and business persons as former college football and basketball stats have become?

[basics]

makawa,

I have to admit that I never knew much about k-pop until my daughter just educated me on this industry where plastic surgery seems to be a must to Westernise many of the boys and girls involved. Seeing many before and after pictures of these kids shows the kind of pressure they are under although I have to admit the transformations have been quite spectacular. Therefore why some commit suicide baffles me as it will many others for the differences becoming a beautiful young woman you would think inspire them rather than want to take their own lives. Of course other factors have a bearing on what these kids do yet it all seems so tragic.

[mishkin]

When they demand that you have surgery to become "a beautiful young woman" they are telling you that your current / "real" appearance is mediocre (at least). Also, the industry is glad you delight in their physical post-surgery appearance, that is why the did it, so that we can rejoice in perfectly finished and polished products

[Common Soldier]

makawa,

I have to admit that I never knew much about k-pop until my daughter just educated me on this industry where plastic surgery seems to be a must to Westernise many of the boys and girls involved. Seeing many before and after pictures of these kids shows the kind of pressure they are under although I have to admit the transformations have been quite spectacular. Therefore why some commit suicide baffles me as it will many others for the differences becoming a beautiful young woman you would think inspire them rather than want to take their own lives. Of course other factors have a bearing on what these kids do yet it all seems so tragic.

We only see the successful plastic surgery. The botched plastic surgery, and there must be some, we won't see, b cause those persons will never make it.

The suicides I think result from the fact that K-pop stars only have a short career. You are not going to be a K-pop star in your 40's. When your looks and youth go, what do you have left? More than other music, K-pop relies on looks and looks do not last. A lot of childhood stars have tragic ends too - after they grow up, most can't make the transition to adult acting, and acting may be all they know, with acting robbing them of a real childhood. Think Lindsay Lohan, or the actor who played home alone, and they are still alive. Many just commit suicide.

When you are used to the fame, and being somebody important, it is hard to transition to being a nobody when all of that is over. Many K-pop stars have very little savings when their careers end. The companies pay for a that surgery and voice lessons, etc., but they charge the people when they become the stars, and the companies also take a lot of the profit too. When their short lived career is over, many don't really have a lot of savings. That is true of many young actors and athletes. Many can adjust their spending and cut back when they no longer are making the big bucks and go broke.

K-pop stars in particular are hard hit, since they are still.young when their careers end. A professional athletes, American football especially, often knows that it's time to retire and leave the stage, since their body is used up, and that is true in other sports. Others, after acting for 20 years, might decide it is time to leave the like light and do something else. But the K-pop stars are still young. Unless they are extremely lucky, chances are they will never have as much fame and importance as they had as a K-pop star. You are not even twenty eight, And you have to decide what to do with the rest of your life.

,

[Flinn]

It's just another form of accepted prostitution. Disgusting

[basics]

Common Soldier,

The thing is that as long as there are human beings there will always be instances like this. It's I suppose the nature of the beast and it's so so sad.

[Flinn]

There's certainly something broken in the human nature, I have to agree

[conon394]

@Common Soldier

A professional athletes, American football especially, often knows that it's time to retire and leave the stage, since their body is used up, and that is true in other sports

I disagree on the comparison to American Football (and Basketball) in your sense they are different from K-pop.

Consider

https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/...ng-mba-program

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/14/mone...ial-fouls.html

But remember we are talking about only the elite few who make it out of college to pro. But how many more got a poor college general studies education and probably skated in HS as soon as they were identified as a talent. They get the injuries, the head injuries, the endless rounds of shots that slowly melt your bones so you can get back in the game, play through the hurt. If you are a on the offensive/defensive line you spend you life building a body form that is a direct line to morbid obesity. Note after years of putting football or basketball first we are talking only maybe 1% get to the big show and than play for an average of only 3-5 years. Is failed plastic surgery bad sure so is trying to be healthy after being trained up to be a 320 pound offensive lineman and spend 4 years rattling your head and than not make the NFL? Or even make it and last 3 years?

[basics]

conon394,

Sissy games compared to real rugby, no body armour or tin hats for our boys.