What use is diplomacy?

**Aodh Mór Ó Néill** · December 09, 2020, 05:45 AM

Given the general state of Total War's diplomacy, do you guys ever actually use it? Have you ever found it necessary to actually have allies, protectorates, send gifts etc etc? Or is it just more for rp purposes?

**Satapatiš** · December 09, 2020, 08:14 AM

Alliances are useful and they last in EB2, but you have to work on keeping your diplomatic credibility. Don't

on your allies and don't punch people randomly just because they are there. I managed a 200+ turns lasting alliance with Carthage whilst playing Apeiros (a faction that starts as an epitome of being perceived as unreliable and untrustworthy).

Forging a functional alliance takes a while, though. Along with some hard pampering of your allies. The difficult part is to guess who's going to be useful. My initial plan was to take the West and leave the East to Ptolemies, but I ended focusing on the East and leaving the West for Carthage.

Vassalized kingdoms are useful for disposing your excess income if you don't have anything expensive to build at the moment.

**alhoon** · December 09, 2020, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Satapatiš

don't punch people randomly just because they are there.

So... no.

I mean, if you don't train your assassins on allied diplomats and merchants, who are you going to train them on?!

**Satapatiš** · December 09, 2020, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by alhoon

So... no.

I mean, if you don't train your assassins on allied diplomats and merchants, who are you going to train them on?!

On anyone else. Especially if they're from the other end of the map...

Taksashilan and Sweboz diplomatic corps mortality rate skyrocketed on my Epirus campaign.

Edit:
I mean, the are allies and there are allies. Some of them are close and you might need them, others are only sometimes allied for convenience and they're an open game.

**Aodh Mór Ó Néill** · December 09, 2020, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Satapatiš

Alliances are useful and they last in EB2, but you have to work on keeping your diplomatic credibility. Don't

on your allies and don't punch people randomly just because they are there. I managed a 200+ turns lasting alliance with Carthage whilst playing Apeiros (a faction that starts as an epitome of being perceived as unreliable and untrustworthy).

What's the best method of expanding whilst keeping my reputation intact? Just wait until others attack me?

**eyelurker** · December 09, 2020, 02:51 PM

Alliance is great in this game because they never betray you which make for a very effective to secure the border, in addition if the alliance have to choose between agressor or defensive allies they always pick the defensive one which can force your enemy to break their alliance if they attack you.

However cretan seems to drive ai like koinon hellenon and ptoelamic nuts and they always programmed to invade there even though i'm the owner and we have alliance.

And of course demand settlement which allow you to gain settlement as cheap as 10.000 gold or from peace deal if the enemy is tired of war which is often. Although smaller faction or certain island ike cyprus are far more expensive to borderline impossible to bought off though.

**Satapatiš** · December 10, 2020, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by Aodh Mór Ó Néill

Just wait until others attack me?

No need to be this nice. It's enough to cancel the trade rights and give them some kind of impossible demands first. Although I do like provoking neighbouring factions into attacking me first, with botched assassination attempts and parading troops next to the borders. If an ally asks you for a support in a war it makes for a great excuse too. Especially since assisting your allies makes you look more reliable.

Or something like that:

1 - I'm playing Epirus.

2 - I want Gorsissa for its high fertility grounds (also, holding it makes protecting the Balkans easier).

3 - It's held by Sweboz.

4 - But I have no history of hostilities between me and Sweboz.

5 - But the Boii have and they're currently reduced to their last settlement fighting for their survival!

6 - I'm sending a diplomat offering alliance and some spare change gold to those unlucky Celts.

7 - Now I can defend my allies like a responsible and reliable empire would do!

Only sometimes diplomacy ends with doing weird things like defending Parthian vital interests in Kyrene...

**Lofty_29** · December 10, 2020, 05:15 PM

So if you get an alliance does it not break until you do so yourself? I've been keeping up small tributes to my allies to keep them happy......

**Satapatiš** · December 11, 2020, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Lofty_29

So if you get an alliance does it not break until you do so yourself? I've been keeping up small tributes to my allies to keep them happy...

They stay on your side if you're reliable and they can't catch you backstabbing them in any manner (like your assassinations of their agents being unsuccessful and detected, for an example). Frequently doing things like funding proxy wars through their enemies or not making even token efforts to support them can break an alliance (BUT that's quite useful when you want to get out of a redundant alliance without attacking them first).

Certain regions are always wanted and your allies can betray you over them. Aforementioned Crete is a good example.

That's quite weird, though. Ptolemaioi backstabbed me by attacking Crete (although our relations at this point weren't that great). Carthage and Lilibaion? Never any issues over Epirus controlling the entire Sicily. The faction was willing to sell me the settlement, even if it was pricey.

**Lusitanio** · December 14, 2020, 08:37 AM

Alliances are very reliable in EBII but they aren't unbreakable. As an example, I'm currently doing a campaign with Carthage and I have been betrayed by the Numidians and the Celtiberians. However, both alliances stood for around 100 turns or more and they didn't had nowhere else to expand before entering at war with me.

**moisesjns** · December 19, 2020, 11:12 AM

With mods that i have implemented into my EB. I have had 50-60 peace turns with nearby factions multiple times. This as pontos mind you what the ai should think is an "easy" target (1 province) Even pergamon has made peace treaties with me after a war which last 20-30 turns.

**BailianSteel** · December 21, 2020, 04:49 AM

Usually Alliances are a matter of convenience, but once in a blue moon you come across one that's truly worthwhile. In my Boioi playthroughs my Alliance with Makedon was extremely lucrative, even though it was de-facto a Non Aggression Pact. Lasting for a whopping 800 turns, we've effectively divided the Mediterranean and Black Sea between us. My Boioi kingdom subdued rival "barbarian" powers in Europe as well as Makedon's rivals in Hellas. Makedon would go on to conquer the Eastern Mediterranean. In exchange for generous funding for these campaigns, I managed to secure custody of the Galatians.

I'll also echo that Alliances almost always buy a 100 turns' worth of peace, but are not unbreakable. If you hold territory in what a faction would consider it's heartland, they're likely to turn on you one day. The Pergamese betrayed me for this in one of my Hayastan playthroughs.

**Satapatiš** · December 21, 2020, 07:12 AM

If an allied faction has no other direction for their expansion left they will attack. It's only a matter of time. It's just that usually by this point all the players campaign objectives were fulfilled and the game goes on only to see what'll happen next.
I'm sure Carthage would clash with me on my Epirote play same like Sweboz would eventually attack me on my Parthian one. But I didn't continue with these campaigns.