Does systemic racism exist in the US?

**Cope** · December 09, 2020, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Akar

And yet here we are, having to explain to people that just because Jim Crow is gone doesn't mean racism is gone.

No one in this thread has argued that the repeal of the Crow laws ended racism.

**Muizer** · December 09, 2020, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Cope

After having failed to produce hard evidence of systemic racism

If by this you mean I did not elaborate on the precise mechanisms of systemic racism, then you are right. I contend that the definitions of structural racism, some of which I supplied, is so broad, that it can be taken to encompass any aspect of a society that contributes to statistically significant disparate outcomes. With the conclusion that economic disparate outcomes are significant, implicitly comes the acknowledgement of systemic racism unless ....... one assumes those disparate outcomes are somehow self inflicted. Given the history of the US I contend that as far as African Americans are concerned, Ockam's razor makes the former the default explanation and the latter the one requiring evidence.

Originally Posted by Cope

my interlocutor claimed that any and all differences in outcome between racial groups are necessarily a consequence of systemic racism. He went on to state that anyone denying this was a racist. When it was pointed out to him that Asian Americans – and not white Americans – are, by almost all relevant metrics, at the apex of American society, he responded by claiming that most Asian Americans are immigrants and immigrants are (for some reason) immune to structural racism.

If you were to assess the educational system in a country, you would not include those having obtained their degrees abroad before migrating to that country, would you? Those migrants would indeed be 'immune' to the performance of the educational system.
Did you actually think your argument would be strengthened by making me spell out such a banal, simple analysis for you?

Originally Posted by Cope

This had the effect, first, of contradicting his initial point that all differences in group outcomes are necessarily a consequence of systemic racism

I did not say that.

Originally Posted by Cope

and second, of inadvertently implying, that millions of low-skilled, non-white immigrants in the US (mostly from Central America) are also not affected systemic racism

And you would attribute them being low skilled and the resulting unfavourable outcomes to some trait of American society? How quaint. In terms of structural racism and immigration, what matters is whether American born children and grandchildren of immigrants show sub-par outcomes.

Originally Posted by Cope

- a point which undermines the very liberal mythology he is trying to protect.

I would have thought my treatment of the subject would have the disciples of said mythology howling with indignation.

Originally Posted by Cope

A further but no less amusing irony was that by drawing our attention to the fact that many Asian-Americans immigrants are hired into highly-skilled, well-paying jobs, he accidentally sabotaged the evidence presented by one of his allies which suggests that there is a bias against non-whites in the employment market.

I have allies?

**Himster** · December 10, 2020, 12:16 PM

From what I've seen it appears that one of the primary reasons that systemic racism exists (i.e. is significant) is out of spite against over-reaching politically-correct initiatives and policies.
The catch-22, now, is that if we were to ease up on our current far-left extremist trajectory it will be interpreted as an admission of defeat. It's too late. We poked the sleeping bull in the eye and now we're holding onto the horns. We dare not let go and face the consequences for what we've done.

**Ludicus** · December 10, 2020, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by Cope

it should be noted that white Americans have worse health outcomes in terms of longevity than both Asian Americans and Latino Americans.

it should be noted that white Americans have worse health outcomes in terms of longevity than both Asian Americans and Latino Americans.

Racial and Ethnic Disparities in Health and Mortality Among ...

For most age groups, non-Hispanic blacks and Native Americans tend to report the poorest health.
Non-Hispanic black, Native American, and, to a lesser degree, Mexican American and other Hispanic elders were shown to have overall worse health across a number of indicators compared to non-Hispanic whites
Mortality disparities were found to be less pronounced than health disparities among the elderly, although non-Hispanic blacks were clearly found to have the highest mortality risks using several different data sources.

--

The unequal distribution of health in the Twin Cities

Discussions of “inequities” oftem bring to mind racial inequality, and the status of non-Hipanic whites in comparison to people of color.In general we see the same pattern with health that we do with other measues of well being, including educational attainment, poverty and income employment and homeownership rates: As a group, people of color fare worse than whites on our region on a variety of health measures, including birth weights, obesity, diabetes and mortality.

Now, isn’t this ironic?

(...)African immigrants often have better health outcomes than non hispanic whites, American Indians and US born black in our region.

(...) this surprising “immigrant advantage” is well-known by public health researchers, who generally think that new arrivals benefit from a better diet (...)
Unfortunetely, our analysis also enlights that the relatively dire social and economic conditions faced by Afro-Americans born in the US (1) and American Indians in our region are refleted in significantly shorter life expectancies for these groups

Psss...”Born in the USA” isn’t a nationalistic, patriotic song.It’s a song about the working-class man, exploited people. As Springsteen put it, "The Democrats haven’t really made the preservation of the middle and working class enough of a priority. And they’ve been stymied in bringing more change by the Republican Party. In the age of (Teddy) Roosevelt, Republicans represented business; Democrats represented labor. And when I was a kid, the first and only political question ever asked in my house was 'Mom, what are we, Democrats or Republicans?' And she answered, 'We are Democrats because they’re for the working people.”

Ah, the working people... rigth!
Those who deny the existence of systemic racism are those who are in denial about inequality and staunch defenders of the Divine Rights of the “free” markets,

To reverse inequality, we need to expose the myth of the 'free market’

How have a relative handful of billionaires – whose vast fortunes have soared even during the pandemic – convinced the vast majority of the public that their wealth shouldn’t be taxed in order to support the common good?
They have employed one of the oldest methods used by the wealthy to maintain wealth and power – a belief system that portrays wealth and power in the hands of a few as natural and inevitable.

Centuries ago it was the so-called “divine right of kings”.

Its modern equivalent might be termed “market fundamentalism”, a creed that has been promoted by today’s super rich with no less zeal than the old aristocracy advanced divine right. It holds that what you’re paid is simply a measure of what you’re worth in the market.

If you amass a billion dollars you must deserve it because the market has awarded you that much. If you barely scrape by you have only yourself to blame. If millions of people are unemployed or their paychecks are shrinking or they have to work two or three jobs and have no idea what they’ll be earning next month or even next week, that’s unfortunate but it’s the outcome of market forces.

Few ideas have more profoundly poisoned the minds of more people than the notion of a “free market” existing somewhere in the universe, into which government “intrudes”.

According to this view, whatever we might do to reduce inequality or economic insecurity – to make the economy work for most of us – runs the risk of distorting the market and causing it to be less efficient, or of unintended consequences that may end up harming us. The “free market” is to be preferred over “government”.

The interminable debate over whether the “free market” is better than “government” makes it impossible for us to examine who exercises this power, how they benefit from doing so and whether such rules need to be altered so that more people benefit from them. The myth of market fundamentalism is therefore highly useful to those who do not wish such an examination to be undertaken.

Ditto.

**irontaino** · December 10, 2020, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by Cope

The law, institutional policies and social expectation all strongly point to the fact that systemic racism does not currently exist in America. No one of any note or relevance argues that "racism is over because laws".

Contradictory statement is contradictory.

**Cope** · December 10, 2020, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by irontaino

Contradictory statement is contradictory.

There is nothing contradictory in the statement.

**Ludicus** · December 10, 2020, 06:32 PM

On a side note.In Springsteen "Death to my Hometown”, the end of the song hints for a need to change to the system,

“I awoke on a quiet night, I never heard a sound /The marauders raided in the dark and brought death to my hometown / They destroyed our families, factories and they took our homes / They left our bodies on the plains / The vultures (1) picked our bones/ Send the robber barons straight to hell / The greedy thieves who came around / And ate the flesh of everything they found / whose crimes have gone unpunished now / who walk the streets as free men now.”

(1) Interesting to note that Springsteen’s vultures (2011) are the vampires (1963), in the lyrism of the Portuguese Revolution, The lyricism of revolution: José Afonso
The Vampires

In the grey sky/Below the silent star/In the still night/They come in bands/With velvet feet/Sucking fresh blood/From the herd.If anyone is fooled/ By their serious manner/And open their doors/To them on their arrival./They’ll eat everything/They’ll eat everything/They’ll eat everything/And leave nothing.

**Cope** · December 10, 2020, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by Ludicus

Ah, the working people... rigth!
Those who deny the existence of systemic racism are those who are in denial about inequality and staunch defenders of the Divine Rights of the “free” markets,

To reverse inequality, we need to expose the myth of the 'free market’

Meanwhile in reality, corporate America, mainstream broadcasters and neoliberal politicians have been promoting the myth of systemic racism to keep working Americans divided along racial, rather than class lines.

Here is a non-exhaustive list of major corporations (including Amazon, whose chief executive has amassed over $70bn in personal wealth during the corona crisis) which have cynically committed to combating so-called systemic racial injustice:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**antaeus** · December 11, 2020, 01:30 AM

Originally Posted by Cope

Meanwhile in reality, corporate America, mainstream broadcasters and neoliberal politicians have been promoting the myth of systemic racism to keep working Americans divided along racial, rather than class lines.

Here is a non-exhaustive list of major corporations (including Amazon, whose chief executive has amassed over $70bn in personal wealth during the corona crisis) which have cynically committed to combating so-called systemic racial injustice:

I'm not convinced that 'corporate' America cares about anything other than 'corporate' America. And if they were interested in systemic racism, it would be because it offers yet another a pathway to enrichment, and not because it would allow one 'race' to succeed at the expense of others.

**Cope** · December 11, 2020, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by antaeus

I'm not convinced that 'corporate' America cares about anything other than 'corporate' America. And if they were interested in systemic racism, it would be because it offers yet another a pathway to enrichment, and not because it would allow one 'race' to succeed at the expense of others.

Corporate America wants to keep working Americans divided along racial rather than class lines precisely because it does offer another pathway to enrichment. The establishment's success in framing the summer's unrest (the proximate cause of which was severe economic and health anxieties) as a reaction to alleged racial injustice was a rather impressive, albeit frighteningly manipulative, coup.

**Ludicus** · December 11, 2020, 11:09 AM

Allow me to fix...difference matters.

Originally Posted by Cope

corporate America, mainstream broadcasters and neoliberal politicians have been promoting ~~the myth of~~ systemic racism to keep working Americans divided along racial, ~~rather than~~ and class lines.

Systemic racism is not a myth.It's a painful reality that happens.
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"Institutional racism does not exist", that’s what they say, in a country without racists (for example, the neo-nazi white nationalists refuse to be called racists). And yet, white-on-black oppression is the most typical of all racist systems in North America, where the majority of whites still discriminate, where insurance agents and lenders still discriminate, where open and covert real-estate discrimination is encouraged in many cities- for example Fair Housing Testing in Chicago Finds Discrimination Based on Race and Source of Income.
Sure, "systemic racism does not exist",in a country where many whites work hard to keep city residential areas and schools as white as possible.
Residential Segregation and Neighborhood Conditions in U.S. Metropolitan Areas
-----
In Europe there is also a racist problem, but,fortunately, in our European instituitions, racists are not made into unicorns. Webinar: fighting systemic racism - Council of Europe

**Muizer** · December 11, 2020, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Cope

Meanwhile in reality, corporate America, mainstream broadcasters and neoliberal politicians have been promoting the myth of systemic racism to keep working Americans divided along racial, rather than class lines.

The race vs class debate is an interesting one. To the extent that your point is that there are those who too readily attribute racial inequality to race alone, overlooking class, I am inclined to agree. I need to read more on the subject, but things like low income and wealth, lack of education, poor health, high crime etc in other (historical) settings tend to be attributed to class, not race. Then again, the late 19th century European under-class were mostly white, but their dress, speech, calloused hands etc. set them apart from the middle and upper class just as much as race would have and there too it took a paradigm shift to recognize that this was not a 'natural order' and that to be complacent about it was not morally neutral. In light of this, as interesting as it may be from a theoretical perspective to try to separate race vs class influences, I'm not sure it will lead to anything of practical value.

**Lord Thesaurian** · December 11, 2020, 01:47 PM

for example Fair Housing Testing in Chicago Finds Discrimination Based on Race and Source of Income.
Sure, "systemic racism does not exist",in a country where many whites work hard to keep city residential areas and schools as white as possible.
Residential Segregation and Neighborhood Conditions in U.S. Metropolitan Areas

This study design makes two key assumptions about housing providers’ perceptions of the tester’s—or any housing seeker’s—characteristics. First, that providers will make inferences about the racial background of testers, through appearance, voice and name. For this reason, testing protocol does not require testers to explicitly disclose racial background to elicit a housing provider’s disposition to rent to Black testers. Secondly, it assumes that housing providers will not make inferences about Source of Income of testers—or housing seekers—given appearance, name or voice. In this case, SOI status must be explicitly stated to elicit housing provider disposition to rent to HCV holders. The one principle exception is geographic. In South Side Chicago neighborhoods with a high concentration of voucher holders, housing providers may be more disposed to assume that housing seekers are voucher holders. Their propensity to make this assumption may increase if the tester is Black, given that 87% of voucher households are Black.22
These assumptions were largely confirmed by the treatment of housing seekers by housing providers. In almost all cases, it is clear that housing providers assumed all testers were not voucher holders, given that many provided different rental terms before and after disclosure (for further description of exceptions, see Appendix 1). Thus, there was a notable change in disposition on the part of providers after voucher disclosure. However, behavior was generally consistent throughout the test towards testers by racial background. Regardless, the project team carefully examined each test to determine the assumptions of housing providers.

In addition to all tests having an SOI component, 10 site tests (five in Rogers Park, five in Logan Square) included tester race as a component (Table 6). While we did not encounter any explicitly prohibited acts on the basis of race, 50% of our site tests where race was a component exhibited discriminatory behavior in the form of soft refusals or differential levels of customer service.

https://www.chicago.gov/content/dam/...inalReport.pdf

While the study repeatedly claims to have identified racial discrimination, the methodology states:

It did not have testers disclose their race to the providers, but that deductions were made based on proxies because of an a priori assumption that providers would racially discriminate.

This methodology did not detect inconsistent behavior from the providers by the actual racial background of the testers.

The delta was found to be whether or not a tester had a voucher, because obviously.

Despite finding no delta based on race to justify a priori assumptions of racial discrimination, conclusion of racial discrimination was made because “the project team carefully examined each test to determine the assumptions of housing providers.”

In the subsample that did include race as a variable, no racial discrimination was found. Half of the results of that subsample found disparate outcomes based on non-racial factors. The subsequent conclusion of racial discrimination was based on assumptions about the agent’s motives relative to baseless inferences from the testers’ experiences.

That’s it. That’s the “racial discrimination” the study found. I’m not sure how their actual findings prove their conclusions, or how this citation proves systemic racism.

These empirical analyses clearly show that socioeconomic inequality is perpetuated by mechanisms operating at the neighborhood level, although the specific pathways are perhaps more complex than Wilson or others imagined. Not only do neighborhood effects vary in their nature and intensity at different stages of the life cycle, they are often conditioned by gender, mediated by family processes, and possibly interactive in how they combine with individual factors to determine social outcomes. Despite these complexities, however, research permits three broad generalizations.

• First, neighborhoods seem to influence individual development most powerfully in early childhood and late adolescence.
• Second, the spatial concentration of affluence appears to be more important in determining cognitive development and academic achievement than the concentration of poverty.
• Third, the concentration of male joblessness affects social behavior more than cognitive development, particularly among Blacks.
These effects persist even after controlling for unobserved heterogeneity. Thus, Wilson's (1987) theory is basically correct-there is something to the hypothesis of neighborhood effects.

https://www.asu.edu/courses/aph294/t...egregation.pdf

The observed neighborhood effects are therefore not a function of race. Given the non-correlation between black residence and formerly redlined neighborhoods, as well as the impact of immigration on urban income inequality, these causal assumptions about race determining neighborhoods or vice versa would, at the most, be a caveat to, not a result of, any factor that could be used to establish a causal link to current systemic racism.

**Ludicus** · December 13, 2020, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Muizer

The race vs class debate is an interesting.. it may be from a theoretical perspective to try to separate race vs class influences, I'm not sure it will lead to anything of practical value.

It matters, race and class are interconnected with one another. The political and economic instituitions are structured and operate to systematically disadvantage working-class people in general, and ethnic minorities in particular and to systematically advantage a relatively small and largely white upper elite class, and a rather substantial and predominantly white upper middle class. The opportunities to succeed in life are unequally distributed along class and racial lines, and that society's institutions produce and perpetuate this class/race hierarchy.Here,
Systemic Classism, Systemic Racism - Connecticut Public ...

Systemic classism and racism must also be addressed together in order to organize a reform movement. African Americans, Hispanics and other ethnic minorities cannot be expected to support reforms of the classist aspects of social life if they leave white privilege intact, while whites who themselves lack equal opportunity cannot be expected to support reforms of the racist aspects of social life unless its classist aspects are also reformed.
Moreover, a joint effort is needed to overcome the likely resistance to systemic reform of the power elite and other privileged segments of society that are advantaged by systemic classism/racism...the reforms of the Civil War, New Deal and Civil Rights eras are themselves partial components of an as yet incomplete program for social and racial justice.
Class and race, while not identical, are intimately interrelated and cannot be fully disentangled.

Obviously,I'm not saying that white workers have a privileged status in America.

I agree with Obama/Michelle, Michelle Obama: 'Systemic racism' coming from the White House...

**antaeus** · December 13, 2020, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Muizer

The race vs class debate is an interesting one. To the extent that your point is that there are those who too readily attribute racial inequality to race alone, overlooking class, I am inclined to agree. I need to read more on the subject, but things like low income and wealth, lack of education, poor health, high crime etc in other (historical) settings tend to be attributed to class, not race. Then again, the late 19th century European under-class were mostly white, but their dress, speech, calloused hands etc. set them apart from the middle and upper class just as much as race would have and there too it took a paradigm shift to recognize that this was not a 'natural order' and that to be complacent about it was not morally neutral. In light of this, as interesting as it may be from a theoretical perspective to try to separate race vs class influences, I'm not sure it will lead to anything of practical value.

I agree there is an interesting approach nested in here somewhere. Certainly when we get into discussions about poorer people in dominant cultural or "racial" groups.

Again speculating here because it's an incredibly large and complicated discussion.... I think when we get into historical views of race and class, race is often sidelined because (as you hinted) of the inherent belief held within European and European descendent societies that people of non European or European fringe heritage were literally less developed cultures, or in some cases, simply less than fully human. In Australia the indigenous population were considered literally not human. In New Zealand there was a widely held belief in intellectual circles that indigenous Maori were destined to extinction and it was justified by the belief that Maori had in their time displaced an earlier mythical people. Similar but varying conversations occurred in South Africa, Brazil, Canada and the US with regards to both indigenous and slave or indentured populations. To justify treatment and prove that they were beneath even the lowest class Europeans. Although even within European populations cultural hierarchies existed - for example between Irish and English.

I could speculate that amongst the lowest classes of those of European or European descendent, both historically and in the present, there might even be latent resentment towards legally enfranchised minorities because of the prominence of discussions on correcting historic racial injustice, and the parallel erosion of the rights of "lower class" workers in the developed world. And I'd also suggest, in a variance on what Cope suggests, that those who own the means of production do stand to benefit from working class European or European descendent people resenting other enfranchised minorities rather than those who pay them minimum wage.

**Ludicus** · December 14, 2020, 11:05 AM

It's a false believe that racial disparities in social mobility are always economic inequalities in disguise. Nope.Although class disparities are important in their own right, they don't explain the majority of the racial disparities.

------
26 charts that show how systemic racism is in the US
26 simple charts to show friends and family who aren't convinced racism is still a problem in America. These 26 charts show the extent of racial disparities in America, in areas like employment, wealth, education, home ownership, healthcare, and incarceration.

The employment-population ratio measures the share of a demographic group that has a job, and it's been lower for Black people for years

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

The unemployment rate has also spiked for all racial groups in the US during the coronavirus pandemic, and is especially high for Black Americans.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Black Americans are underrepresented in high-paying jobs

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

One Harvard University study found that when Blacks and Asians "whitened" their resumes — for example, used "American" or "white"-sounding names — they got more callbacks for corporate interviews

Twenty-five percent of Black candidates received callbacks from their whitened resumes, while only 10% got calls when they left ethnic details on their resume.
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People of color, and especially Black Americans, are severely underrepresented at the top of the corporate hierarchy.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Black Americans have historically been underrepresented in the highest echelons of government, as well.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Black workers have historically earned far less than white workers.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

There's a similar disparity at the household level. Lower incomes mean that the poverty rate for Black families is over twice that of white families.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

The aggregate wealth white households have held has historically far outstripped that held by the Black community. And while it has increased for white people since the 1980s, it's remained stagnant for Black people.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

One of the contributing factors to the household wealth disparity is student loans.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

The wage gap between races also interacts with the gender wage gap between men and women.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

One common way to illustrate the gender and race wage gaps is through looking at "equal pay days" for different groups.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

A key part of the "American Dream" is leaving your children in a better economic position than you were in, but that dream is less attainable for Black Americans.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Educational opportunities remain starkly split by race.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

The share of both white and Black Americans with college degrees has increased dramatically over the last half-century, but there's still a gap.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

As with income, intergenerational educational mobility varies widely between racial groups.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

When they tried to get financing from banks, Black mortgage applicants were more likely to be denied loans than aspiring homeowners of other races.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Thus, the share of Black households that own their own homes is lower than other racial groups.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

The coronavirus crisis has only exacerbated an already wide disparity in access to healthcare.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

The current coronavirus pandemic has had a disparate impact on people of color.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Black prisoners are overrepresented in the US prison population compared to their share of the total US population.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Black men are roughly five times more likely to be imprisoned than their white counterparts — and nearly 13 times as likely in the 18-19 age group.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Marijuana usage rates are similar between white and Black Americans, yet Black Americans are 3.64 times more likely to get arrested on marijuana possession charges.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

The racial disparity in marijuana arrests has actually gotten worse in recent years, even though more states are legalizing or decriminalizing marijuana.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Black people are overwhelmingly more likely than white people to be under parole supervision — and they're more likely to be sent back to prison for minor infractions.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Roughly half of those fatally shot by police are white, but Black Americans are fatally shot at a disproportionate rate compared to their representation in the US population.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Cope** · December 14, 2020, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Ludicus

It's a false believe that racial disparities in social mobility are always economic inequalities in disguise. Nope.Although class disparities are important in their own right, they don't explain the majority of the racial disparities.

------
26 charts that show how systemic racism is in the US
26 simple charts to show friends and family who aren't convinced racism is still a problem in America. These 26 charts show the extent of racial disparities in America, in areas like employment, wealth, education, home ownership, healthcare, and incarceration.

Fortunately it won't require twenty-six charts (most of which curiously ignore Asian Americans) to debunk the above post. Only one simple, yet repeatedly ignored, sentence is necessary. Disparities in group outcomes do not prove ongoing systemic discrimination.

Having said that, I have my own chart which shows a racial disparity in the number of abortions in the US. Conveniently, the systematic and wildly disproportionate liquidation of black lives, encouraged and abetted by the liberal ruling class, doesn't count as racism.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Lord Thesaurian** · December 14, 2020, 01:49 PM

Other than highlighting the usual disparate outcomes by race and assigning presumed causes to them, what actual evidence do proponents have to support the claim that these disparities are caused by current systemic racism in the US? That would be the minimum standard, particularly if convincing skeptics is the goal. Claims regarding the wealth gap, education, wage gap, neighborhood, drug arrests, and hiring bias/callbacks have already been addressed in this thread, debunking the assumptions underpinning the systemic racism narrative as it relates to those disparities.

Empirical analysis doesn’t indicate conclusive evidence of racial differences in fatal police shootings in the US when controlling for contextual factors (1 2 3).

In addition to the thousands of local and national programs that aim to help young people avoid these life-altering problems, we should figure out more ways to convince young people that their decisions will greatly influence whether they avoid poverty and enter the middle class. Let politicians, schoolteachers and administrators, community leaders, ministers and parents drill into children the message that in a free society, they enter adulthood with three major responsibilities: at least finish high school, get a full-time job and wait until age 21 to get married and have children.

Our research shows that of American adults who followed these three simple rules, only about 2 percent are in poverty and nearly 75 percent have joined the middle class (defined as earning around $55,000 or more per year). There are surely influences other than these principles at play, but following them guides a young adult away from poverty and toward the middle class.

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/t...-middle-class/

Consistent with these findings, the poverty rate of black married couples is below the national average and about half of that of white single parent households. The rate of children born to single parents has tripled since the end of Jim Crow. The link between single parenthood and crime, promiscuity, substance use and incarceration is well established.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full...X.2020.1774589

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf

https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._Violent_Crime

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/206316.pdf

45% of violent criminals and 25% of property (theft/destruction) criminals are black. Violent criminals and repeat offenders are more likely to be supervised when paroled.

https://crime-data-explorer.fr.cloud...d-states/crime

Violent crime and drug crime is also linked at the city and neighborhood levels independently of race, suggesting this link is at least a confounding variable in any racial disparity in drug arrests.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2719901/

**Cope** · December 14, 2020, 03:13 PM

With regards to the “contextual factors” of police shootings, the NYPD found in 2012 that even though the majority of suspects shot by the police were black, an even greater majority of those shooting upon police were black.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**antaeus** · December 14, 2020, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by Cope

With regards to the “contextual factors” of police shootings, the NYPD found in 2012 that even though the majority of suspects shot by the police were black, an even greater majority of those shooting upon police were black.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Like all the other statistics presented on this page, these stats alone mean nothing except what they literally present.

But like all other stats shown on this page, they beg the question why?

Perhaps we should stop throwing statistics at each other. There are lots of statistics in this thread now, and not many of them are really being disputed. Perhaps we should do a little more analysis of what might lead to these situations? I'm looking less at those who agree that systemic racism exists. I understand their belief that disparate outcomes is evidence of aa systemic problem. I'm more interested in analysis from those who don't think that systemic racism exists on what causes the evidenced disparate outcomes between different ethnic, cultural etc groups.

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