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Thread: [Resource] List of Trait/Ancillary Attributes

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    Callistonian's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default [Resource] List of Trait/Ancillary Attributes

    This list is intended to explain, in detail, the real functions of each trait/ancillary attribute, a.k.a. vices & virtues, for the benefit of players and modders alike. These attributes can be found in export_descr_character_traits.txt (EDCT) and export_descr_ancillaries.txt (EDA). Traits and ancillaries use the same attributes in both files and, so far, only the Level attribute has been identified as having different functions when used by a trait vs. an ancillary. These are, more precisely, character attributes the values of which traits and ancillaries have the "Effect" of modifying. Every character (named characters and agents) has an integer value for each attribute which can range from positive to negative infinity, however, the functions of these attributes only change on a much smaller range (typically ±10). The ranges listed here are the function ranges that have real effects in-game.

    Attributes may have only one function or they may have many. Some attributes have different functions for different agent types. Whereas a trait may consist of many attributes, an attribute may consist of many functions. Thus a trait can be broken down into a set of attributes each of which which can in turn be broken down into a set of functions as shown below (the symbol ∈ means "is an element in the set"):

    Function (e.g. increase/decrease inquisitor's denouncement chance of success) ∈ Attribute (e.g. Piety) ∈ Trait (e.g. Executioner)
    Each entry in this list is broken down by character type and lists all confirmed functions for each. If a character type is shown in bold, that means the attribute can show up on their character information scroll. Only named characters can have variable effects visible on their information scroll (faction leaders show Authority instead of Loyalty), all other agents always have one visible effect category (i.e. Piety for Priests and Inquisitors, Charm for Princesses, etc.), although agents present inside foreign-controlled forts will show their subterfuge attribute level as well (even non-spies). Note that some attributes have different functions for named characters depending on whether they're governors or generals. Note also that not all named characters in an army are generals, only the leader of the army (who shows up on the strat map representing the army) is the general.

    Please help us complete this work by leaving a post with your investigative results and report any corrections.

    Confirmed

    We have at least some verified information on the functions of these attributes.

    ArtilleryCommand/InfantryCommand/CavalryCommand

    Range: unknown

    Named Character Functions: 1) all of these attributes increase the Command attribute level based on the percentage of the army with the 'siege'/'infantry'/'cavalry' categories in EDU respectively, for example: a general with +10 ArtilleryCommand and +4 InfantryCommand has an army that is 20% units with the siege category and 50% units with the infantry category, then he gets (10*0.2)+(4*0.5) == +7 Command from these attributes

    Spy Functions: none

    Assassin Functions: none

    Diplomat Functions: none

    Admiral Functions: none

    Princess Functions: none

    Merchant Functions: none

    Priest Functions: none

    Heretic Functions: none

    Witch Functions: none

    Inquisitor Functions: none

    Authority

    Range: unknown

    Named Character Functions: 1) the authority level of the faction leader makes the faction's generals less likely to revolt as per the parameters in descr_campaign_db. 2) authority is used to rank named characters for selecting the next faction heir, if the faction is teutonic and the leader and heir are killed simultaneously, the named character with the highest authority becomes the new leader

    Spy Functions: none

    Assassin Functions: none

    Diplomat Functions: none

    Admiral Functions: none

    Princess Functions: none

    Merchant Functions: none

    Priest Functions: none

    Heretic Functions: none

    Witch Functions: none

    Inquisitor Functions: none

    BodyguardSize

    Range: unknown

    Named Character Functions: 1) 1:1 change in size of bodyguard unit (on small unit size multiplier), See thread.

    Spy Functions: none

    Assassin Functions: none

    Diplomat Functions: none

    Admiral Functions:none

    Princess Functions: none

    Merchant Functions: none

    Priest Functions: none

    Heretic Functions: none

    Witch Functions: none

    Inquisitor Functions: none

    BodyguardValour

    Range: 0 to max possible unit experience

    Named Character Functions: 1) 1:1 change in experience level of bodyguard unit

    Spy Functions: none

    Assassin Functions: none

    Diplomat Functions: none

    Admiral Functions:none

    Princess Functions: none

    Merchant Functions: none

    Priest Functions: none

    Heretic Functions: none

    Witch Functions: none

    Inquisitor Functions: none

    Charm

    Range: unknown

    Named Character Functions: unknown

    Spy Functions: unknown

    Assassin Functions: unknown

    Diplomat Functions: unknown

    Admiral Functions: unknown

    Princess Functions: 1) makes princess more likely to succeed in marriage mission

    Merchant Functions: unknown

    Priest Functions: unknown

    Heretic Functions: unknown

    Witch Functions: unknown

    Inquisitor Functions: unknown

    Command

    Range: unknown

    Named Character Functions: 1) as general, each increment increases morale of units within 50 meters on the battlefield by +1 and increases morale of units beyond 50 meters by +0.5 (note: this information comes from this thread on the original MTW and is probably not accurate anymore, according to Jojo and Serious Potato, Command only affects auto-resolve outcomes)

    Spy Functions: none

    Assassin Functions: none

    Diplomat Functions: none

    Admiral Functions:none

    Princess Functions: none

    Merchant Functions: none

    Priest Functions: none

    Heretic Functions: none

    Witch Functions: none

    Inquisitor Functions: none

    Construction

    Range: 0-100

    Named Character Functions: 1) as governor, each increment represents ∓1% construction cost

    Spy Functions: none

    Assassin Functions: none

    Diplomat Functions: none

    Admiral Functions:none

    Princess Functions: none

    Merchant Functions: none

    Priest Functions: none

    Heretic Functions: none

    Witch Functions: none

    Inquisitor Functions: none

    Farming

    Range: 0-100

    Named Character Functions: 1) as governor, each increment corresponds to 1 farming point with income determined by the multiplier SIF_FARMS in descr_settlement_mechanics (1.0 == 80 gold)

    Spy Functions: none

    Assassin Functions: none

    Diplomat Functions: none

    Admiral Functions:none

    Princess Functions: none

    Merchant Functions: none

    Priest Functions: none

    Heretic Functions: none

    Witch Functions: none

    Inquisitor Functions: none

    Finance

    Range: unknown

    Named Character Functions: unknown

    Spy Functions: unknown

    Assassin Functions: unknown

    Diplomat Functions: unknown

    Admiral Functions:unknown

    Princess Functions: unknown

    Merchant Functions: 1) increases merchant revenue when trading resources

    Priest Functions: unknown

    Heretic Functions: unknown

    Witch Functions: unknown

    Inquisitor Functions: unknown

    GunpowderCommand

    Range: unknown

    Named Character Functions
    : 1) works the same way as ArtilleryCommand/InfantryCommand/CavalryCommand but using the gunpowder_unit attribute instead of the unit category in EDU, this attribute effect is cumulative with those category-specific effects

    Spy Functions: none

    Assassin Functions: none

    Diplomat Functions: none

    Admiral Functions: none

    Princess Functions: none

    Merchant Functions: none

    Priest Functions: none

    Heretic Functions: none

    Witch Functions: none

    Inquisitor Functions: none

    HitPoints

    Range: 0-10

    Named Character Functions: as a general, HitPoints makes the character harder to kill on the battle map (presumably, critical hits subtract -1 until the character reaches 0 and dies), HitPoints correspond 1:1 to stat_health in EDU, the range of stat_health values in EDU is 0-15 for units and mounts, infantry and horses and camels use the first value while the second value is used only for auto-resolve calculations, elephants use the second value in battle and for auto-resolve calculations, the general's HitPoints value is added to that of the unit he's in giving a maximum theoretical range of 0-25, the general's HitPoints value is not used in auto-resolve calculations

    Spy Functions: none

    Assassin Functions: none

    Diplomat Functions: none

    Admiral Functions: none

    Princess Functions: none

    Merchant Functions: none

    Priest Functions: none

    Heretic Functions: none

    Witch Functions: none

    Inquisitor Functions: none

    Law

    Range: unknown, public order max is determined by SOF_BUILDINGS_LAW in descr_settlement_mechanics

    Named Character Functions: 1) as governor, each increment corresponds to ±5% public order

    Spy Functions: none

    Assassin Functions: none

    Diplomat Functions: none

    Admiral Functions: none

    Princess Functions: none

    Merchant Functions: none

    Priest Functions: none

    Heretic Functions: none

    Witch Functions: none

    Inquisitor Functions: none

    Level

    Range: 0-10

    This effect has the same functions for all agent types.

    Functions: 1) set strategy map model in descr_character, 2) set rollover (tooltip) text in expanded.txt, 3) causes the trait to be removed when the agent is converted between factions

    Notes: For example, let's say an admiral agent belonging to the russia faction has two traits A and B. Trait A has Effect Level 4 and trait B has Effect Level -1. Then the admiral with these traits will have Level 3. If the descr_character entry for russia's admirals looks like what is shown below, then this admiral will use the green-highlighted, third entry. The level 0 entry will be used for all admirals who do not have any traits/ancillaries with Level effects, i.e. all agents start with default level 0.

    Code:
    faction            russia
    dictionary        15
    strat_model        julii_admiral          ;level 0 <-- this is the default
    strat_model        macedon_admiral   ;level 1
    strat_model        julii_admiral          ;level 2
    strat_model        brutii_admiral        ;level 3
    strat_model        julii_admiral          ;level 4
    strat_model        julii_admiral          ;level 5
    Likewise, this admiral will use the level 3 entry for his tooltip/rollover text in expanded.txt:

    Code:
    {EMT_RUSSIA_ADMIRAL}Russian Fleet
    {EMT_RUSSIA_ADMIRAL_1}First Fleet
    {EMT_RUSSIA_ADMIRAL_2}Second Fleet
    {EMT_RUSSIA_ADMIRAL_3}Third Fleet
    {EMT_RUSSIA_ADMIRAL_4}Fourth Fleet
    {EMT_RUSSIA_ADMIRAL_5}Fifth Fleet
    As with all other attributes, an agent's level number is not restricted on the range 0-10; however, the agent may only use the 0-10 entries in descr_character and expanded. E.g. if the agent has a trait with Effect Level -3, their level number will be -3 but they will use the 0th entry in descr_character and expanded. If they are then given a trait with Effect Level 4, they will now use the 1st entry in descr_character and expanded, indicating that their true level number was formerly -3. Likewise, if their level number is higher than 10, they will be capped at using the 10th entry in descr_character and expanded.

    The Level effect is unique in that it causes the trait to be removed when the agent is converted between factions (by bribery or give_everything_to_faction). If the agent has an ancillary with a Level effect, the ancillary will not be removed upon conversion of the agent, but the Level effect of the ancillary will be nullified. All other effects of the ancillary will remain unchanged. Once the agent has been converted, they may be given traits and ancillaries with Level effects which will work as normal.

    LineOfSight

    Range: 2-10

    This attribute has the same function for all agent types: 1) each increment of LineOfSight changes the line of sight of the agent by 1 tile on the campaign map. Adding a negative LineOfSight effect that exceeds the agent's LOS results in an increase in LOS. The base LineOfSight which is hard coded for all characters, which they will use if they do not have any traits or ancillaries, is as follows:

    Named Character: 6

    Spy: 11 (is assigned but the game code limits the effective value to 10)

    Assassin: 3

    Diplomat: 3

    Admiral: 7

    Princess: 3

    Merchant: 3

    Priest: 3

    Heretic: 3

    Witch: 3

    Inquisitor: 3

    LocalPopularity

    Range: unknown, maximum practical value set by SOF_GOVERNORS_INFLUENCE in descr_settlement_mechanics

    Named Character Functions: 1) as governor, each increment corresponds to ±5% in public order

    Spy Functions: none

    Assassin Functions: none

    Diplomat Functions: none

    Admiral Functions:none

    Princess Functions: none

    Merchant Functions: none

    Priest Functions: none

    Heretic Functions: none

    Witch Functions: none

    Inquisitor Functions: none

    Looting

    Range: 0-10

    Named Character Functions: 1) each increment increases revenue from sacking a settlemnt by 5% or occupying a settlement by 1%

    Spy Functions: none

    Assassin Functions: none

    Diplomat Functions: none

    Admiral Functions: none

    Princess Functions: none

    Merchant Functions: none

    Priest Functions: none

    Heretic Functions: none

    Witch Functions: none

    Inquisitor Functions: none

    Loyalty

    Range: unknown

    Named Character Functions: 1) each increment decreases the change of the character revolting (converting to slave_faction) by an unknown amount, the loyalty attribute of generals is multiplied by the authority attribute of the faction leader to calculate (precise formula unknown) the chance of revolts, if the faction leader has 0 authority, then all characters will essentially have 0 loyalty and revolts will be based entirely on the base chance in descr_campaign_db

    Spy Functions: none

    Assassin Functions: none

    Diplomat Functions: none

    Admiral Functions: none

    Princess Functions: none

    Merchant Functions: none

    Priest Functions: none

    Heretic Functions: none

    Witch Functions: none

    Inquisitor Functions: none

    Mining

    Range: unknown

    Named Character Functions: 1) as governor, each increment increases/decreases revenue from mining by 1%

    Spy Functions: none

    Assassin Functions: none

    Diplomat Functions: none

    Admiral Functions: none

    Princess Functions: none

    Merchant Functions: none

    Priest Functions: none

    Heretic Functions: none

    Witch Functions: none

    Inquisitor Functions: none

    MovementPoints

    Range: -19 to +20

    This effect has the same function for all agent types.

    Function: each increment increases/decreases movement points by 1 tile on the strat map

    Note: Movement bonuses from roads are applied after the movement points from everything else (base, traits, ancillaries). This means it is not possible to reduce an agent's movement points to 0 on a road with a movement bonus.

    PersonalSecurity

    Range: unknown

    Named Character Functions: 1) each increment increases/decreases the bodyguard unit size by 1 on small unit scale

    Spy Functions: none

    Assassin Functions: none

    Diplomat Functions: none

    Admiral Functions: none

    Princess Functions: none

    Merchant Functions: none

    Priest Functions: none

    Heretic Functions: none

    Witch Functions: none

    Inquisitor Functions: none

    Piety

    Range: 0-10

    Named Character Functions: 1) as a governor, each increment corresponds to 1% increase/decrease "admin" revenue, 2) makes named character less likely to be denounced by an inquisitor, 3) as governor, decreases religious unrest when the settlement religion is predominantly the faction's religion and conversely increases religious unrest when the settlement religion is predominantly foreign, this is how it works normally in Kingdoms, but it is possible to invert these effects

    Spy Functions: unknown

    Assassin Functions: unknown

    Diplomat Functions: unknown

    Admiral Functions:unknown

    Princess Functions: unknown

    Merchant Functions: unknown

    Priest Functions: 1) each increment corresponds to 1% increase/decrease in region conversion rate, 2) makes priest less likely to be denounced by an inquisitor, 3) makes priest more likely to denounce a heretic, 4) above the threshold value min_cardinal_piety in descr_campaign_db, the priest's piety allows them to join the College of Cardinals and potentially be elected pope

    Heretic Functions: unknown

    Witch Functions: unknown

    Inquisitor Functions: 1) increases chance of success for denouncement mission, % depends on min parameter in descr_campaign_db as well as target piety

    SiegeEngineering

    Range: unknown

    Named Character Functions: 1) as general when sieging a settlement, each increment corresponds to 1 built point for siege equipemnt (allowing equipment to be built faster/slower)

    Spy Functions: none

    Assassin Functions: none

    Diplomat Functions: none

    Admiral Functions: none

    Princess Functions: none

    Merchant Functions: none

    Priest Functions: none

    Heretic Functions: none

    Witch Functions: none

    Inquisitor Functions: none

    Squalor

    Range: ±5, set by SPF_SQUALOUR and SOF_SQUALOUR in descr_settlement_mechanics

    Named Character Functions: as a governor, each increment corresponds to 1 pip for squalor, each pip for squalor contributes to growth and public order

    Spy Functions: none

    Assassin Functions: none

    Diplomat Functions: none

    Admiral Functions: none

    Princess Functions: none

    Merchant Functions: none

    Priest Functions: none

    Heretic Functions: none

    Witch Functions: none

    Inquisitor Functions: none

    TaxCollection

    Range: unknown

    Named Character Functions: 1) as governor, each increment corresponds to a 1% increase in revenue from taxes for the settlement

    Spy Functions: none

    Assassin Functions: none

    Diplomat Functions: none

    Admiral Functions: none

    Princess Functions: none

    Merchant Functions: none

    Priest Functions: none

    Heretic Functions: none

    Witch Functions: none

    Inquisitor Functions: none

    Trading

    Range: unknown

    Named Character Functions: 1) as governor, each increment corresponds to a 1% increase/decrease in revenue from settlement trade

    Spy Functions: none

    Assassin Functions: none

    Diplomat Functions: none

    Admiral Functions: none

    Princess Functions: none

    Merchant Functions: none

    Priest Functions: none

    Heretic Functions: none

    Witch Functions: none

    Inquisitor Functions: none

    TrainingAgents

    Range: ±10

    Named Character Functions: 1) as governor, each increment corresponds to a 5% decrease/increase in agent training cost

    Spy Functions: none

    Assassin Functions: none

    Diplomat Functions: none

    Admiral Functions: none

    Princess Functions: none

    Merchant Functions: none

    Priest Functions: none

    Heretic Functions: none

    Witch Functions: none

    Inquisitor Functions: none

    TrainingUnits

    Range: ±10

    Named Character Functions: 1) as governor, each increment corresponds to a 5% decrease/increase in unit training cost

    Spy Functions: none

    Assassin Functions: none

    Diplomat Functions: none

    Admiral Functions: none

    Princess Functions: none

    Merchant Functions: none

    Priest Functions: none

    Heretic Functions: none

    Witch Functions: none

    Inquisitor Functions: none

    Unrest

    Range: unknown, practical limit set by SOF_TURMOIL in descr_settlement_mechanics

    Named Character Functions: 1) as governor, each increment corresponds to a 5% decrease/increase in settlement public order

    Spy Functions: none

    Assassin Functions: none

    Diplomat Functions: none

    Admiral Functions: none

    Princess Functions: none

    Merchant Functions: none

    Priest Functions: none

    Heretic Functions: none

    Witch Functions: none

    Inquisitor Functions: none


    No Information

    We have no verified information on the functions of these attributes. This does not mean that these attributes have no functions. The current assumption is that all attributes do have working functions, we just don't know precisely what all of these functions are.

    Ambush
    Assassination
    Attack
    BattleSurgery
    Bribery
    BribeResistance
    Chivalry
    Combat_V_Faction_FactionName
    Combat_V_Religion_ReligionName
    Defence
    Fertility
    Health
    HeresyImmunity
    Influence
    Magic
    NavalCommand
    Purity
    PublicSecurity
    Sabotage
    SiegeAttack
    SiegeDefense
    Subterfuge
    TroopMorale
    Unorthodoxy
    Violence
    Last edited by Callistonian; July 07, 2021 at 12:42 PM.

  2. #2
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Trait/Ancillary Vices & Virtues

    Afaik there is no explanatory list for the effects of the trait\ancillary effects. That said pretty much most of them are self explanatory with the agent specific ones (charm, pity etc) serving as multipliers of already existing abilities.
    'level' is the odd one out - see here.










  3. #3
    Withwnar's Avatar Script To The Waist
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    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Trait/Ancillary Vices & Virtues

    Quote Originally Posted by Callistonian View Post
    ... nothing approaching the completeness of most guides around here on topics such as Guilds, Missions, etc.
    ...We can't have made it nearly to 2021 without such a list.
    Interesting point. Nevertheless, we have.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Trait/Ancillary Vices & Virtues

    Probably because you need to dive into the game's code for that, while at the same time having a good understanding of the game mechanics. Not many people combine these two skills.

    Jojo00182 (the code diver) and I have found a lot of upper/lower boundaries for these effects, but finding out what exactly an attribute such as Command does seems to be more difficult.

    Would certainly be willing to contribute our findings to a list though.

  5. #5
    Callistonian's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Trait/Ancillary Vices & Virtues

    In that case, if nobody has any objections to it, I'll convert this thread into a work-in-progress list by editing the OP. My short term goal will be figuring out more precisely what the main categories (visible on character scrolls) actually do for each agent type.

    Please post any information and corrections you have here.

  6. #6
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Trait/Ancillary Vices & Virtues

    At a later stage you can then ask a moderator to move the thread into the tutorial section and prefix as resource.










  7. #7
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Trait/Ancillary Vices & Virtues

    Quote Originally Posted by Callistonian View Post
    In that case, if nobody has any objections to it, I'll convert this thread into a work-in-progress list by editing the OP. My short term goal will be figuring out more precisely what the main categories (visible on character scrolls) actually do for each agent type.

    Please post any information and corrections you have here.
    This is very promising, Callistonian, thanks for your work!
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  8. #8
    Callistonian's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Trait/Ancillary Vices & Virtues

    I noticed that in the Docudemons they wrote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Docudemons
    Effects are pretty self explanatory, no character can have more than 5 effects. Most effects have a hardcoded limit of 5.
    The irony here is that the proposition that characters can only have 5 effects is not at all self-evident and the very next statement, that most effects have a hardcoded limit of 5, seems to be incorrect. The fact that most effects have functions which aren't self-explanatory is the reason for this thread.

    Can anyone confirm the claim that characters can't have more than 5 effects? If so, how is it manifested? I've tested by adding more than 5 effects to a single trait and then querrying the attributes individually in campaign_script. All of the attributes return true indicating that the character does in fact have more than 5 effects from the one trait alone. However, when I try to querry 5 attributes at once, it returns false. Here is the monitor:

    Code:
    monitor_event CharacterTurnStart Trait TestTrait > 0
    and Attribute Magic = 10     ;TestTrait sets all these attributes to 10
    and Attribute Charm = 10
    and Attribute Command = 10
    and Attribute Finance = 10
    and Attribute Piety = 10
         historic_event success_message
    end_monitor
    If I delete any of the Attribute condition lines, the historic_event fires. Pick an attribute, any attribute - removing it makes it work. The character is a named character. Am I doing something obviously wrong here or is there a limit on the number of Attribute conditions you can use at once?

  9. #9
    Withwnar's Avatar Script To The Waist
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    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Trait/Ancillary Vices & Virtues

    no character can have more than 5 effects
    Surely not. It is common for a named character to be showing pips in all of their visible attributes, which means they must have Command (at least one kind), Chivalry/Dread, Loyalty and Piety effects in play. That's at least four already. If he also has Level for a custom strat model then that's five. So if he gets a MovementPoints effect then this five limit would mean either it has no effect (it does) or he loses his strat model (he doesn't) or one of the main four no longer shows pips (they all still do).

    when I try to querry 5 attributes at once, it returns false.
    Huh, what a strange limitation. Anything in the log when it returns false?

  10. #10
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Trait/Ancillary Vices & Virtues

    Quote Originally Posted by Callistonian View Post
    Am I doing something obviously wrong here or is there a limit on the number of Attribute conditions you can use at once?
    Been modding the game since it got released and still there is stuff that I never came across before, simply amazing.

    That doesn't stop me from wondering if we are not mixing up effects (the command in the trigger) and an attributes' effect as technically speaking 'authority' isn't an effect, it's an attribute. One of the effects of authority is reduced disloyalty.
    Last edited by Gigantus; December 11, 2020 at 10:08 PM.










  11. #11

    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Trait/Ancillary Vices & Virtues

    This is pretty elementary for the thread, but to reduce how much digging is required per-trait and have a bit more to show here, I'll drop an oldie for the same subject at less depth.
    https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/931...war/faqs/50116

  12. #12
    Callistonian's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Comprehensive List of Trait/Ancillary Vices & Virtues

    Quote Originally Posted by Withwnar View Post
    Anything in the log when it returns false?
    The character in my tests already had > 0 levels for some of these attributes which is why some of them returned false when queried if == 10. I was just confusing myself by deleting these and not recognizing a pattern.

    I did find that there doesn't seem to be a limit on any of the attributes I tested. A trait can add +1000 MovementPoints and the Attribute condition will still return true for MovementPoints >= 1000. Obviously, there is a much lower limit on the number of tiles a character can actually move in one turn. Presumably all attributes work the same way: a character may have any integer value of an attribute, but the functions of this attribute are capped at some value. This does apply to negative attribute values as well although for MovementPoints, negative values seem to maximize the real function value.

    This makes it impossible to find the function limits, a.k.a. the "real" limits, of any attributes using the Attribute condition. We'd either have to reverse engineer the game code or do quite a lot of testing to observe the in-game behavior as we add attribute levels. For some attributes like MovementPoints, the observations are easy, but for others like Command, well... we still don't have an exact idea of what Command even does. If it increases unit morale somehow, it would be quire hard to find a limit indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus
    That doesn't stop me from wondering if we are not mixing up effects (the command in the trigger) and an attributes' effect as technically speaking 'authority' isn't an effect, it's an attribute. One of the effects of authority is reduced disloyalty.
    The terminology is a bit confused thanks to the way CA originally set this up. When defining a trait or ancillary, things like Piety are defined following "Effect" but when querying these things, we use the condition "Attribute". That is to say, a trait or ancillary has the "Effect" of adding an "Attribute" level to a character. In the Docudemons, they simply refer to "Effects" and "Attributes" interchangeably so that it's possible for a character to have the "Effects" directly. I adopted this convention in the OP although it would be more correct to say that the character has Attribute levels as a result of the effects of traits and ancillaries. I may clarify this in the OP.

    At any rate, what these attributes/effects actually do in the game code (the subject of this thread) is something else to which I've assigned the name "Functions" in the OP: Function (e.g. increase denouncement chance of success) ∈ Effect/Attribute (e.g. Piety) ∈ Trait (e.g. Executioner). There is no indication that the Docudemons is referring to functions when they say there's a limit of 5 effects. Like the rest of the community, they probably assumed that the functions of most attributes were self-explanatory and not worthy of deeper investigation (hence why the spreadsheet where they list functions is very incomplete and presents a bunch of incorrect boundary values). And since I have yet to find two attributes that share the same functions (the most likely would be the many command-related attributes I suppose), testing if there is a limit of 5 attributes would effectively confirm whether or not there's actually a limit of 5 functions (which seems even more preposterous than a limit of 5 attributes).

    Quote Originally Posted by CommodusV
    This is pretty elementary for the thread, but to reduce how much digging is required per-trait and have a bit more to show here, I'll drop an oldie for the same subject at less depth.
    I haven't read through the whole thing, but this appears to be a list of all traits and triggers in the vanilla EDCT without any explanation of what the functions are of any of the attributes. Unfortunately, I don't see any information in this list that contributes to the subject of this thread.


    TLDR: I've confirmed that there is no limit on the number of attributes a character may have. There is also no limit on the number of 'Attribute' conditions you can use in script. I don't know where the Docudemons guys got the idea of a limit of 5, but they also assigned an incorrect limit of 5 on most attribute values so I'd take their information on this stuff with a big grain of salt.
    Last edited by Callistonian; December 13, 2020 at 10:31 AM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: [Resource] List of Trait/Ancillary Attributes

    Isn't Violence used in ROTK to sort the traits in-game in the character panel? That's what I thought anyway when I saw it used in their EDCT with the comment "to-the-top effect", but maybe someone from the team will have more reliable info!
    Belovèse's Toolbox: export text files to spreadsheet, detailed unit stats
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    Mini-mods: diplomacy and relation/reputation - detailled unit stats

  14. #14
    Jadli's Avatar The Fallen God
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    Default Re: [Resource] List of Trait/Ancillary Attributes

    Very useful thread indeed. I know somewhat know several of the ones you labelled as "No information", co I can post some info on them, so you at least know the area where to look, though I assume you know those as well, one just doesnt know exactly how they work? Or havent tested them enough yet to confirm the exact values?

    One of the very uncommonly used ones is BattleSurgery (of a general), so I suppose I can shed a bit of light one this one already, as Im using it quite often in my mod?

    It is a very interesting one, and it determines how many men on your side are "healed" after the battle. It appears that with relatively high values (between 5 and 10) your army suffers almost no looses in the battle (tho it might depend how many looses you got), Im assuming the negative values increases your losses, tho not entirely sure with that yet (which is kinda embarassing as Im using it as well).

    Afaik, PublicSecurity of a governor/general affects chances of enemy spies/assassins of doing things in a settlement... perhaps it also counters spy unrest?

    I assume for the rest you have an idea, right?

    Though no idea what is Violence, Influence. I guess Unorthodoy is for priests
    Last edited by Jadli; February 01, 2021 at 04:10 AM.

  15. #15
    Callistonian's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: [Resource] List of Trait/Ancillary Attributes

    Just based on their names, we can sort of guess what most of the attributes do. I suspect this is what most people, myself included, have relied on for modding triats/ancillaries up to this point. But those inferences do not make it into the OP, hence why the "No Information" column is still so extensive even though most of its entries seem to be self-explanatory based on their names alone. The only attributes that get moved to the Confirmed column are those for which we have confirming tests for at least one agent type.

    For BattleSurgery, what is the ratio of men healed per unit to the value of the general's attribute? What are the attribute limits? Does it work for negative values? When you say "men on your side", are you referring to units in the general's army, units in all of the general's faction's armies that participated in the battle, or all allied reinforcement units in the battle? Does this attribute have any effects for other agent types?

    For PublicSecurity, same questions as above. Does it also affect chance of success for spy/assassination missions against generals outside of settlements? Does it have any effects for other agent types?

  16. #16
    Jadli's Avatar The Fallen God
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    Default Re: [Resource] List of Trait/Ancillary Attributes

    Yea, thats what I meant, just give you an idea where to look for exact research in case you dint know what to look into

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