Ruling the world as the Ptolemaioi

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

This is more to ask if I have everything down properly, since I'm not always sure my knowledge is as complete as I think it is. I do have a few questions, some just to be clear on things, others because I really don't know.

The Ptolemaioi have no methods for turning camps into settlements or vice versa; once taken, a camp is always a camp, a settlement is always a settlement. Like everyone else, they have the possibility of putting Allied governments in place through the line tributary state- allied- state, and then either allied oligarchy or democracy as appropriate. (Camps can only do oligarchies) This will allow for local recruitment, and generates a client ruler for fast loyalty, but will have economic penalties and converts the culture to Eleutheroi.

Specific to the faction government types start with Doriktete ge, which gives a small PO bonus but allows for very little construction. Once that is in place, you have three options:

Option 1) Is strategia. This gives a happiness penalty, and its only real upside seems to be that you can establish military colonies.
Option 2) You can establish a native government, starting with a Laarchia, and then possibly moving on to the supervised version. These give local units, open up the possibility to build local military colonies, and the unsupervised version gives a happiness bonus. They both give a trade penalty, and under the right circumstances, can support a minor hellenistic polis.
Option 3) Hellenistic government. There are two forms, but I'm admittedly fuzzy on the difference between them. They both require at least a minor hellenistic polis, give more trade bonus, and allow for some recruitment.

Eventually, some of them can become the Basilike Patris, which is basically your core areas. That requires a full Hellenistic Polis, but is also limited to "Hellas and their old colonies". I'm not sure where that is exactly.

A lot of this, as you can see, is dictated by the presence of colonies. There are three colony types: A foreign military one, a hellenistic greek military one, and the construction of hellenistic polies (did I pluralize that right?) The latter two require colonies, which are generated by existing Hellenistic metropolis territories.


Questions:

1) If I have an allied government type, I cannot put in a hellenistic colony, or a polis, correct?
2) Can I have both a military colony and a polis in the same area, assuming I put in the money and colonists?
3) The Hellenic military colonies are better at cultural conversion than the polis/metropolis, right? The expected progression seems to be that you build the military colony first, and then you eventually upgrade it into a polis.
4) Can I build the military colonies and eventaully the polis in a camp type province? Or am I doomed to forever have allied government there?
5) Aside from camps, where I'm not sure of, can I theoretically build up to hellenistic metropolis in every province?
6) Des anyone have a list of which provinces are eligible for Basilike Patris?

[RodriguesSting]

1 - Correct.
2 - Correct, and encouraged.
3 - Correct. Often, you have to put the colony first, and then the polis. Poleis serves more as an administrative/economic support, while colonies will, for the most part, be the drive for your expansion and give you the most professional(ish) troops.
4 - I think being a settlement is a requirement for both, although I think you can build native colonies in these. Although I don't think you get access to those via allied government.
5 - I believe the major roadblock to that is the minimum culture requirements. There might be a code clause somewhere, but I don't feel like checking right now. What you can do, though, is see on the building browser how high your Poleis line gets in a given province.
6 - Hold onto that thought, I might check it later, alongside other code.

The difference between the two basic hellenistic governments: the one that requires you to *NOT* have colony gives happiness and a trade bonus, generally being good for the Hellas And Its Colonies settlements that get rowdy real quick if you don't put an allied government in them, and the second one, besides allowing colonies and upgrading them, is the one that can get to BP, I believe.

Also don't mind all your generals eventually becoming Cruel Rulers, that's just how it is for now with hellenics.

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

Thank you for the quick response, RodriguesSting. Just one follow up question. Can you build military colonies in places with Hellenistic Governments, or only if you have Strategia in place at the moment?

[RodriguesSting]

I believe you can build them with the autonomous hellenic government as well, although I am not sure you can get the highest level in those. Anyway, Strategia is only really important to expand outside the Hellenistic sphere of influence. It can easily be converted into native governments (within your native government range, which is faction-dependant), or, alternatively, if you are really breaking new ground, use it to build colonies and poleis to, eventually, upgrade to supervised hellenistic.

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

Once again, many thanks for your quick responses. I now have the basic beginnings of a real plan here!

[RodriguesSting]

I do remember now that there are some hard limits to where you can build poleis from my Baktria game, in which I conquered the northern settled cities but couldn't build poleis there at all. However, I think, regarding colonies, as long as you can build at least a Strategia in there, you can go all in. Have in mind, though, that generally speaking, a native government + local colony will offer you way more troops. The hellenistic roster has many different units, but the majority have pools of 2 and some of 3 (who are generally not troops you can actually rely upon in any capacity). Ideally you will want pools of 4+, with two pools of 4 beating one of 5, and native government + local colony have decent odds of giving you that depending on region.

Also, although it leads to Eastern Imperial culture in old Persian Empire lands, it is really not a big deal to manage. Persian troops are decent (line infantry, light skirmishers) to good (cavalry, assault infantry), and most importantly, plentiful, so be sure you are getting more out of the settlement by hellenizing it than you would by just leaving native government and colonization with some more careful supervision.

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

At least in my current game, Hellenizing the entire world isn't in pursuance of some other goal. It is the goal. And since by turn 62 I've eliminated Rome, Koinon Hellenon, Makedonia, Epirus, Pergamum, Pontos, (Well, they respawned in Afghanistan for some reason, but I chased them out of their ancestral home) and gobbled up about half of the Selukids, I'm not too worried about not having enough manpower. I might need to draw it in from a lot of different places, but I'll manage to get enough.

At least in my experience, winning battles and conquering isn't the hard part. Holding on to what you've got is the hard part, and from there, public order is paramount and that means hellenization both for the happiness that the polies give, as well as lowering the foreign culture penalties.

[QuintusSertorius]

The polis can technically be built anywhere that meets the culture requirements, but the recruitment is rubbish away from the middle of the map/coastal regions. Colonies cannot be built anywhere, only the first tier is possible in those remote places Hellenes don't want to live.

[RodriguesSting]

The polis can technically be built anywhere that meets the culture requirements, but the recruitment is rubbish away from the middle of the map/coastal regions. Colonies cannot be built anywhere, only the first tier is possible in those remote places Hellenes don't want to live.

Ah, yes. And as Poleis can't generate enough culture to upgrade by themselves, colonies are, ultimately, the drive that will dictate how far the hellenization of an area goes.

[Jervaj]

Ah, yes. And as Poleis can't generate enough culture to upgrade by themselves, colonies are, ultimately, the drive that will dictate how far the hellenization of an area goes.

Thats is not completelly correct. Poleis/colonies speed up it a lot, but it is very possible to go beyond their limits. It tends to grow slowly just by keeping it controlled and depending on the governors influence. In fact a very good governor can almost match a colony building (unless it has chaned) , but if you expand a lot its unlikely you will have many of those for your cities.