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Thread: Simple question about god-human relations

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    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Simple question about god-human relations

    Nietzsche had written that, when he was a child, he imagined god as an evil demon, responsible for every hideous activity in the world.
    I'd like to focus on some aspect of the dynamic between a hypothetical god and a human, though:

    Assuming a god exists, what is the point of salvation being gained by humans depending on some action, ethic, work or other part or even the whole of their life? If god is omnipotent and omniscient, it would already be aware of who will be saved and who will not.
    At times I've heard the argument, from clergy, that the point is to have people realize that they are responsible for what will happen to them, and therefore if they aren't saved it is due to their decisions. If so, god would still be aware they would act in this way, rendering the decision-making decorative at best, and at worst a pretext to have god mock those destined to fall anyway.

    If one is organizing a trip, and wants specific, athletic people to join, but doesn't wish to be very outspoken about it, he might not say no outright to an obese person who wishes to come along. But after the trip starts, the obese person will be unable to continue, due to the difficult hiking or other strenuous activities. Maybe then the obese individual will recognize that he never was destined to come along, and accept that he has to leave. But if god is the one organizing the afterlife trip, he already knows who will be too fat to come along, and yet not only has them follow the team for decades of life here, but actually creates them so as to be discarded as he already knows they will as he creates them.

    Other religious people try to argue that those discarded only fail because some antagonistic deity, a devil, intervened. But in the christian religion there is no duopoly of power; satan isn't as powerful, so ultimately any discarded human was such because god allowed it to be so.

    Maybe there is some other dynamic here? Asking people who believe in religion (primarily christian or tied types).
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










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    Default Re: Simple question about god-human relations

    The example is quite interesting - what if everyone are obese or hold their hands and go together as one? Nobody would fail then. So it's a competition? Some have to win to give others hope and some have to lose, to remind everyone what'd happen should they give up?

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    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Simple question about god-human relations

    You can't fool god, you obese donut
    Trying to would likely lead to a whole bunch of crops humans being discarded.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










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    Default Re: Simple question about god-human relations

    The best argument I've come across is that this is the "Best of all Possible Worlds". If God were to be more helpful we would have less freedom and therefore we would be less human and/or less deserving of salvation or whatever. If God were less interfering: our own innate nature (as beings of free-will) would overwhelm us into a pit of unending suffering. Meaning that God needs to and therefore has struck a precise balance.

    It still seems like a bit of a cop-out to me though. The problem of evil is not solved, God being omniscient and omnipotent, both knows of each moment of suffering and has the power to allay it. He chooses not to, thus making him directly responsible. This is most clearly an issue with the suffering of children. God creates cancer, God gives new-born child cancer, God knows how to cure it and chooses not to. God sees the suffering of the child and just watches presumably with the same satisfaction with which he declared all of his creation to be "Good". Meaning that what this God being calls "good" is utterly alien to anything we could possibly imagine as "good" and God being the ultimate arbiter of "Good" and God does such things, the foundation of the concept of "Good" is simultaneously also the opposite of itself.

    The other and even less acceptable solution is that this is a fallen world, we are all inherently and absolutely sinful and completely undeserving of redemption. Redemption only comes from God's random application of grace (ie. redemption cannot be achieved through works). Therefore God can inflict any and all suffering he wishes, even on children, and no matter how bad it is, it is always deserved. Because of inherited sin from something to do with a talking snake. Therefore God can be considered "good" and implementing divine justice that we simply can never understand because of our fallen nature. This has two problems: First redemption through Grace. This implies that there is no free-will, God has chosen who will be saved. In a way this makes sense as God is a timeless being, time has already finished for him, he has seen it all and knows all that will happen. But the lack of free-will undermines the value of our actions and our value as humans, meaning that even the act of initial eating of the fruit was not a chosen action, but a result of the gears set in motion by God, so therefore nobody except for God can be considered responsible. The second issue is by being so fallen and unredeemable, those who are saved are only saved arbitrarily, the concept of good does not apply in any meaningful way. Now of course this is said by a sinful man in a sinful world in a sinful language so I cannot be trusted. But nobody can.

    The third solution is the Kierkegaardian solution: the leap of faith. Which is basically "Don't worry about it". Leap into it with your eyes wide open, even to its flaws and you push yourself to believe. You struggle and you fail and you struggle with your faith again. His profound comparison is with Love. When you love someone, you see their flaws, maybe you get jealous or annoyed with them. You struggle with your love, but if you persist it's worth it in the end.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
    -Betrand Russell

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    basics's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Simple question about god-human relations

    Kyriakos,

    When God created us and our surroundings it was purely for His good pleasure so in this story there are goodies and baddies like in most other thrillers. Remember that He is the Author we being the actors into which all are plunged into darkness or sin. So, our Hero in this story as it unravels is the One Who made all things, Him being our God and Saviour Jesus Christ. Our whole history is about Him, the outcome of which is that some may live with Him in eternity and others not so. Our time is even broken down into chapters or acts as it's played out perhaps the most dangerous time being the " cold war " which appears to have eased considerably today. Yes nations still rise against nations yet the final disaster will not happen until Jesus Christ returns to finish His story as far as this part is concerned. When that time comes we will all know why we humans were made in His image and understand why so until then our destiny lies as it has always done in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. On which side of the story are you?

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    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Simple question about god-human relations

    Maybe what is going on is that there is only one actual human who must be saved, and all the rest up to that one human only exist to create a database of how to be saved, so that god can make sure the important one will.
    In this way, those before who get saved are just guinea pigs and may be kept around for a while until they've served their purpose ^_^

    Would be even better if that one person to be saved was saved, 2000 years ago. More futility= darker story.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










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    Default Re: Simple question about god-human relations

    Kyriakos,

    God's already got a list of who will be saved and who have been saved so your equation doesn't quite add up.

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    Default Re: Simple question about god-human relations

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    Kyriakos,

    When God created us and our surroundings it was purely for His good pleasure so in this story there are goodies and baddies like in most other thrillers. Remember that He is the Author we being the actors into which all are plunged into darkness or sin. So, our Hero in this story as it unravels is the One Who made all things, Him being our God and Saviour Jesus Christ. Our whole history is about Him, the outcome of which is that some may live with Him in eternity and others not so. Our time is even broken down into chapters or acts as it's played out perhaps the most dangerous time being the " cold war " which appears to have eased considerably today. Yes nations still rise against nations yet the final disaster will not happen until Jesus Christ returns to finish His story as far as this part is concerned. When that time comes we will all know why we humans were made in His image and understand why so until then our destiny lies as it has always done in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. On which side of the story are you?
    According to you he's on God's side, because he is doing exactly what God wants. Likewise Satan is doing exactly what God wants. If double predestination is reality we are wind up dolls playing out a bizarre script when God gets angry with us for doing what he wants us too, and punishing us for what he made us do. I mean you make God look like a sick kid tossing his toys in the fire. Who hurt God to make him like that? Cherchez la femme as Freud might have said (or God made him say).

    Please don't get angry if I poke fun, God makes me do it.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

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    Default Re: Simple question about god-human relations

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    According to you he's on God's side, because he is doing exactly what God wants. Likewise Satan is doing exactly what God wants. If double predestination is reality we are wind up dolls playing out a bizarre script when God gets angry with us for doing what he wants us too, and punishing us for what he made us do. I mean you make God look like a sick kid tossing his toys in the fire. Who hurt God to make him like that? Cherchez la femme as Freud might have said (or God made him say).

    Please don't get angry if I poke fun, God makes me do it.
    Yep we all just Rosencrantz & Guildenstern
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

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    Default Re: Simple question about god-human relations

    Cyclops,

    I am not angry in the least. It's more or less what I expected. The thing is that unknown to us God might just reveal Jesus Christ to you yet. How will you then feel if born again?

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    Default Re: Simple question about god-human relations

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    Cyclops,

    I am not angry in the least. It's more or less what I expected. The thing is that unknown to us God might just reveal Jesus Christ to you yet. How will you then feel if born again?
    According to you, precisely what God intends. Its not up to me. Its almost as though I am a meaningless automaton, just God playing with himself.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

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    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Simple question about god-human relations

    Different christian cultures treat the predestination issue differently, for example some reformed think that if you do well in life it shows god likes you and you will be saved, while in some orthodoxy there's the sense that if you suffer here it means god likes you and doesn't want you getting attached to this futile world. Ala the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, where Lazarus is a worm but when he dies he rests on the shoulder of god while the rich person (for some reason) burns in hell.
    Nietzsche used that to refer to the religion as one of envy, and "the revenge of the downtrodden".
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










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    Default Re: Simple question about god-human relations

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The other and even less acceptable solution is that this is a fallen world, we are all inherently and absolutely sinful and completely undeserving of redemption. Redemption only comes from God's random application of grace (ie. redemption cannot be achieved through works). Therefore God can inflict any and all suffering he wishes, even on children, and no matter how bad it is, it is always deserved. Because of inherited sin from something to do with a talking snake. Therefore God can be considered "good" and implementing divine justice that we simply can never understand because of our fallen nature. This has two problems: First redemption through Grace. This implies that there is no free-will, God has chosen who will be saved. In a way this makes sense as God is a timeless being, time has already finished for him, he has seen it all and knows all that will happen. But the lack of free-will undermines the value of our actions and our value as humans, meaning that even the act of initial eating of the fruit was not a chosen action, but a result of the gears set in motion by God, so therefore nobody except for God can be considered responsible. The second issue is by being so fallen and unredeemable, those who are saved are only saved arbitrarily, the concept of good does not apply in any meaningful way. Now of course this is said by a sinful man in a sinful world in a sinful language so I cannot be trusted. But nobody can.
    It's not as though the early Christians were the first people to contemplate the "fallen" state of the world. The ancient Greeks certainly spent quite a lot of thought on it as well. It seems like something that would have been obvious and deeply troubling in antiquity - how can the human condition be ornamented by such beauty, joy, and grace at the same time as it is accompanied by suffering, decay, and death? The early Church fathers (principally Augustine) were able to marry these ideas with Biblical scripture in the formulation that the fallen state of the world can only be remedied by the miracle of Christ's redemption of Man. So yes everyone is doomed by original sin and the fallen state of the world, yet the sacrifice of Christ makes the sublime available to all as well. Or so they preached. And if it sounds contradictory (it is), it's intended to be contradictory in the sort of revelatory way that appeals to a religious-minded person.
    Last edited by chriscase; November 05, 2020 at 11:02 AM.

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    Default Re: Simple question about god-human relations

    Quote Originally Posted by chriscase View Post
    It's not as though the early Christians were the first people to contemplate the "fallen" state of the world.
    I did not state or imply anything to the contrary.
    But I would add that the Christian concept of this as a fallen world is unique in its extremity.

    The ancient Greeks certainly spent quite a lot of thought on it as well. It seems like something that would have been obvious and deeply troubling in antiquity - how can the human condition be ornamented by such beauty, joy, and grace at the same time as it is accompanied by suffering, decay, and death? The early Church fathers (principally Augustine) were able to marry these ideas with Biblical scripture in the formulation that the fallen state of the world can only be remedied by the miracle of Christ's redemption of Man. So yes everyone is doomed by original sin and the fallen state of the world, yet the sacrifice of Christ makes the sublime available to all as well. Or so they preached. And if it sounds contradictory (it is), it's intended to be contradictory in the sort of revelatory way that appeals to a religious-minded person.
    It's a bit of a stretch to say that the sacrifice of Christ makes the sublime available to all, while also admitting that its nature only appeals (and is comprehensible) to a very particular portion of the human population.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
    -Betrand Russell

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    Default Re: Simple question about god-human relations

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    It's a bit of a stretch to say that the sacrifice of Christ makes the sublime available to all, while also admitting that its nature only appeals (and is comprehensible) to a very particular portion of the human population.
    It's all quite a stretch, really.

    But in any case that's often how the gospel is preached by the missionaries. They didn't spread it by being too picky.

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    Default Re: Simple question about god-human relations

    Himster,

    The concept of a fallen world is not unique at all when we see in other religions a better place after death. If we are so perfect why then is there a better place after death as they believe. Answer is that they all know that this is a fallen world. Their biggest problem is that even among the elites they had to invent their idea of God into many that are not God at all. Death has been and always will be the enemy of mankind and there is only one way around it.

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    Default Re: Simple question about god-human relations

    And that way is transhumanism.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










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    Default Re: Simple question about god-human relations

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    Himster,

    The concept of a fallen world is not unique at all when we see in other religions a better place after death. If we are so perfect why then is there a better place after death as they believe. Answer is that they all know that this is a fallen world. Their biggest problem is that even among the elites they had to invent their idea of God into many that are not God at all. Death has been and always will be the enemy of mankind and there is only one way around it.
    Death makes life meaningful. Why do today what one can do tomorrow, becomes why do today that which one could put off for all of eternity. Immortality is not a victory of life, it is its refutation.
    Even the materialistic solution (transhumanism) should be viewed with extreme suspicion and scepticism, whether or not it is inevitable.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
    -Betrand Russell

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    Default Re: Simple question about god-human relations

    Himster,

    Death takes all the meaning of life away. Tomorrow may never happen despite all the things put off for another day. Death is an ugly thing especially if one doesn't care what's on the other side of it.

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    Default Re: Simple question about god-human relations

    Quote Originally Posted by OP
    Assuming a god exists, what is the point of salvation being gained by humans depending on some action, ethic, work or other part or even the whole of their life? If god is omnipotent and omniscient, it would already be aware of who will be saved and who will not.
    At times I've heard the argument, from clergy, that the point is to have people realize that they are responsible for what will happen to them, and therefore if they aren't saved it is due to their decisions. If so, god would still be aware they would act in this way, rendering the decision-making decorative at best, and at worst a pretext to have god mock those destined to fall anyway.
    If you're inquiring after the Christian perspective on this, the only way to understand the plan of salvation is to read the Bible. A utilitarian approach based on bad faith premises will only get you whatever answer you've already determined to be the case.

    Jesus was clear:
    Quote Originally Posted by John 3
    There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

    2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

    3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

    5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

    9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

    10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

    11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

    12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

    13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

    15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

    20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

    21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

    22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

    23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

    24 For John was not yet cast into prison.

    25 Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.

    26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.

    27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

    28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.

    29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

    30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

    31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

    32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

    33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

    34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

    35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

    36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
    Quote Originally Posted by John 14
    1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
    5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
    7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
    8Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
    Jesus is God and he is the only salvation from the fate of death in an eternal grave. Paul affirms this as well:
    Quote Originally Posted by Acts 16
    And the multitude rose up together against them: and the magistrates rent off their clothes, and commanded to beat them.
    23 And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them into prison, charging the jailor to keep them safely:
    24 Who, having received such a charge, thrust them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks.
    25 And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
    26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.
    27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
    28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
    29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
    30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
    31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
    32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
    33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
    34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
    35 And when it was day, the magistrates sent the serjeants, saying, Let those men go.
    As for why God organized things the way he did, for that, we can turn to the very beginning of man's sin in Genesis:
    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis 3
    14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

    15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
    זֶרַע, zera, seed, can denote both the singular and plural context, so there is dual meaning here. Long story short, Satan, the serpent, will bruise the heel of Eve’s descendant, Jesus, and latter will crush the serpent’s head. This is a reference to the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus. Paul understood that:
    Quote Originally Posted by Romans 16
    17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

    18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

    19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

    20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
    The second part of the dual meaning is that Jesus victory over the serpent will enable the victory of the Church, collective seed of the woman, over the wicked, the seed of Satan:
    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation 12
    17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation 20
    2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

    3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

    8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

    9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
    When Jesus returns to resurrect the righteous and commune with them, Satan is imprisoned for “a thousand years.” During this time, the wicked are all dead, and the righteous are with God while his judgement is passed. Following that time, the wicked are raised in the resurrection of condemnation and the Serpent gathers his forces for a grand attack on God and the Church. This final act of defiance proves the justice of God’s judgement, the wicked are destroyed by fire in the second and final death.

    It’s a nice book end to the Great Controversy, which began and ended with man’s defiance and God’s judgement. While it seems unfair to mortal minds now to suppose someone could be damned merely for not following God’s commandments, the fact those who do not will still make the conscious choice to follow Satan and defy God in the end demonstrates there is no repentance and therefore no salvation for them. The wicked will make that choice with full awareness of their deeds and the consequences, just like Adam and Eve.

    God could have just judged and killed Adam and Eve following their disobedience. That would certainly have been the most efficient course of action, per the OP's question. Just erase and start over. Instead, he gave Eve and her seed a second chance. The "point" of salvation is to save, and the only way to save man from the fate of death that is the consequence of his disobedience to God is person by person, individual by individual, choice by choice.

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