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Thread: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

  1. #121

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    My point is, Macron shouldn't have said that Islam is a religion that is in crisis over all the world.
    But it's true, Islam is currently in a state of civil war between different sects and world views. And also, (Sunni and Wahhabi) Muslims are disproportionally involved in conflicts worldwide.


    They were also under threat during the Christchurch mosque attacks, when a white supremacist murdered 51 people. The idea of the "west" emerged during the age of imperialism, right? If tolerance is a constitutive element of the so-called western culture (is it?), if we really care about notions of tolerance and freedom, we/Macron should not launch frontal attacks on Islam. The age of Charles Martel is long gone. As someone put it, ironnically, "if western culture were real, we wouldn't spend so much time talking it up"
    Tell me, is this what western culture is about?
    Irrelevant whataboutism. Also, what do "white supremacists" from Anglo countries have to do with France?

  2. #122

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    No? I'm not surprised, I still remember when you said, a couple of years ago, that all Muslims are potential terrorists.(sic)

    ------
    I'm not surprised,Anger towards Emmanuel Macron grows in Muslim world ...
    Statement isn't radical given reality of both Islam itself and islamic communities around the world. Just ask the non-Muslim minorities in Muslim countries.
    And they can be angry all they want. They are just butthurt because their "prophet" is mocked, they sure weren't angry when Macron himself was pandering to their religion, or when their own people committed terrorist attacks on European soil.
    So yeah, they can take their outrage and shove it up their prophet's ass (mockery and cartoons be upon him) for all I care.
    The cartoon showed Erdogan sitting in a white T-shirt and underpants, holding a canned drink along with a woman along with a woman wearing an Islamic hijab, and lifting the woman's burqa to see her naked body.

    As I said before,Macron bizarre address seems an attempt to appeal to right-wing voters ahead of the 2022 election, Macron's clash with Islam sends jolt through France's long ...
    And? Nobody owes Erdogan respect, and nobody owes Islamic religion (or any religion) respect either. France is a secular country. Also Guardian isn't a source.
    Let's talk about political cartoons. We cannot not have two weights and two measures when it comes to political cartoons.
    I still remember the day when The NewYork Times announced it would no longer publish political cartoons. The newspaper issued an apology after publishing a drawing by a Portuguese cartoonist of Trump and Netanyahu, and announced that it would no longer publish political cartoons.
    I don't really see any double standards here.

  3. #123
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Trump is not a source. The white supremacist website Stormfront is not a source. The Guardian is an excellent newspaper. I quote, from the Wiki,
    The Guardian scored highest for digital-content news, with 84% of readers agreeing that they "trust what [they] see in it".[13] A December 2018 report of a poll by the Publishers Audience Measurement Company (PAMCo) stated that the paper's print edition was found to be the most trusted in the UK in the period from October 2017 to September 2018.
    --------
    The countries of Europe are all secular and all different. France is a radical secular country. Let’s talk a little bit more about Charlie Hebdo, Macron and the French radical secularism.

    Charlie Hebdo’s founder, François Cavanna, wrote, in 1982,
    Nothing is sacred. Principle No. 1. Not even your own mother, not the Jewish martyrs, not even people starving of hunger

    Charlie Hebdo
    to still publish...
    ….But with freedom of expression as its credo, the publication routinely pushes the limits of French hate speech laws with often sexually explicit caricatures that take on or offend nearly everyone.
    I agree with the authors of this article, they got that right. This week, the Charlie Hebdo’s issue features a disgusting cartoon of the funeral of the French beheaded teacher, showing officers carrying two coffins, one for the body, one for the head.

    And we shall also take into consideration the pervasive impact of the confrontational political discourse. To motivate and persuade your fellow far right white supremacist voters,Macron declared that,
    Islamism is a religion plagued by radical temptations and by a yearning for a reinvented jihad which is the destruction of the other
    The Foreign Policy make a good point, and ironizes,Macron Wants to Start an Islamic Revolution - Foreign Policy
    Beyond the rhetorical implications of Macron’s plan, much of what he envisions will be difficult to implement, precisely because of the secular values he repeatedly defended throughout his speech. The 1905 Separation of Church and State law that underpins laïcité explicitly bars the state from interfering with private religious affairs.That’s the paradox: to defend secularism with a plan based on the state’sintervention in religion.
    To make the situation even worse, it goes without saying that France suffers from a weaponised, radical secularism.
    Watch the video https://twitter.com/i/status/118265477931667865 to understand what that means in a practical context. Requires only a very basic knowledge of the French language.

    In non-radical secular republics, the cultural context is different. For the literature lovers ( certainly not you, HH) this paper introduces the presence of Islam and Islamic culture in the work of Pessoa, Fernando Pessoa and Islam - Brown University
    It’s worth a read.This is a well-written, well-organized and well-illustrated paper. According to Pessoa, the presence of Islamic civilization over several centuries in the Iberian Peninsula created a Roman-Arab psychic and cultural background, common to the people from the Iberian Peninsula,
    We,Iberians, are the encounter of two civilizations – the Roman andthe Arab,not because we were Roman-Arabs, but because we still are
    The author of the paper, Fabrizio Boscaglia,magistrally summarized,
    ...Pessoa’s Fifth Empire is a Eurocentric and Occidentalising myth,since the imperial succession "officially" includes only Greece,Rome, Christianity and England/Modern Europe, before the Universal Fifth Empire (cf. Pessoa in GOMES, 1934; CFP, 8-228). Therefore, Islamic civilization is also implicitly considered by Pessoa as one of the civilizations to be culturally integrated within a new world civilizational paradigm of European and Western matrix, which is partly narrated through the imaginary – although metaphorical –of the Crusade, particularly in “Mensagem” (1)
    (1)Mensagem(Message) by Fernando Pessoa- English version

    Antero de Quental, the author of "On the Causes of the Decline of the Iberians peoples", wrote, in 1871,
    I cannot leave forgotten the Moors and the Jews because they were one of the glories of the Peninsula. (...)The Moors and the Jews,intelligent and industrious races, to whom the Peninsular thought and will are so indebted, and whose expelling almost has the proportion of a national calamity
    Culturally speaking, in this country, a series of 2015-17 Pew surveys found 70percent of non-Muslims would be willing to accept Muslims as membersof their family, and 73 percent of non-Jews would be willing to accept Jews as members of their family. The level of antisemitism is almost inexistent, according to the European Jewish Congress. In fact, here, there is a reason why Anti-Muslim ideology hasn't found a home here.

    Definitely, the Hebdo’s staff should visit the Alhambra in Spain, or start a exploration of Portugal's Jewish heritage in the small towns of this country. Macron is welcome.
    ------

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    also what do "white supremacists" from Anglo countries have to do with France?

    Is there a reason for the inverted commas? the fanatic terrorist is a white supremacist, not a "white supremacist".
    In France, more than 1,000 Islamophobic incidents occurred in 2019 including 70 physical attacks. Just for comparison, if I remember well, other than Muslim countries, only Merkel described the mosque attacks in New Zealand as terrorism.
    A little history, the other side of the coin,
    Thaya Ashman heard that some Muslim women were afraid to go outside in hijabs after the deadly shootings at two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand, on Mar. 15, according to Reuters.
    So she organized a movement of people to wear headscarves in solidarity. On Friday, people of all backgrounds throughout New Zealand could be seen wearing head coverings, including outside the Al Noor mosque in Christchurch — one of the targets of the terror attack
    "Afraid to go outside", rings a bell?
    ------
    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    The newspaper issued an apology after publishing a drawing by a Portuguese cartoonist of Trump and Netanyahu, and announced that it would no longer publish political cartoons.
    I don't really see any double standards here.
    I can't make your words my own " They are just butthurt because their "prophet" is mocked"- mainly because Judaism was not mocked, and yet the NYT apologized for publishing an "antisemitic"cartoon.Yes, there is a blatant double standard.
    Last edited by Ludicus; November 01, 2020 at 06:22 PM.
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  4. #124
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    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Have you considered that Macron doesn’t want French people to be shot, blown up or decapitated? That he doesn’t want segregation between the sexes? That he doesn’t want a country segregated down sectarian lines?
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus
    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  5. #125
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Have you considered that Macron doesn’t want French people to be shot, blown up or decapitated?
    Nobody wants the French people to be shot, blown up or decapited. Have you considered that Macron, to get more votes, with an amazing lack of diplomatic skills, added fuel to the fire?
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  6. #126

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Have you considered that Macron doesn’t want French people to be shot, blown up or decapitated? That he doesn’t want segregation between the sexes? That he doesn’t want a country segregated down sectarian lines?
    Pascal Bruckner's commentary on the cynical, yet extremely dangerous, alliance between socialists and Islamic radicals goes someway toward explaining the left's absurd reaction to Macron's defiance of terrorism:

    Spoiler for On Islamo-Leftism
    Islamo-Leftism was conceived chiefly by the British Trotskyites of the Socialist Workers’ Party: noting that the religion of the Prophet, although reactionary, is a factor of upheaval and not of passivity at the heart of our societies, they promote a reasonable entrisme, tactical, temporary alliances with Islam. A certain revolutionary fringe’s hope that Islam might become the spearhead of a new insurrection in the name of the oppressed is not without ulterior motives on both sides: Trotskyites, supporters of alternative forms of globalism, and adherents to Third Worldism are using the Islamists as a battering ram against free-market capitalism. The hatred of the market is worth a few compromises regarding fundamental rights, and especially that of the equality between men and women. The fundamentalists, disguised as friends of tolerance, are dissimulating and using the Left to advance their interests under the mask of a progressive rhetoric. There is a twofold deception here: one side supports the Islamic veil or polygamy in the name of the struggle against racism and neocolonialism. The other side pretends to be attacking globalization in order to impose its version of religious faith. Two currents of thought form temporary alliances against a common enemy: it is not hard to predict which one will crush the other once its objectives have been achieved. The Leftist intransigence that refuses any compromise with bourgeois society and cannot castigate too severely “little white men” actively collaborates with the most reactionary elements in the Muslim religion. But if the far Left courts this totalitarian theocracy so assiduously, it is perhaps less a matter of opportunism than of a real affinity. The far Left has never gotten over communism and once again demonstrates that its true passion is not freedom, but slavery in the name of justice.

    The Tyranny of Guilt: An Essay on Western Masochism, Pascal Bruckner, 2010, pp. 25-26.



  7. #127

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Nobody wants the French people to be shot, blown up or decapited. Have you considered that Macron, to get more votes, with an amazing lack of diplomatic skills, added fuel to the fire?
    Per your post: "But with freedom of expression as its credo, the publication routinely pushes the limits of French hate speech laws with often sexually explicit caricatures that take on or offend nearly everyone."
    Does "nearly everyone" attack and murder because of the 'offensive caricatures'?

    And:
    "This week, the Charlie Hebdo’s issue features a disgusting cartoon of the funeral of the French beheaded teacher."

    How long will it be, before teachers murder Charli Hebdo staffers?

  8. #128
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Exactly what I said- published just a few hours ago. Muslims'rage at Macron threatens to escalate tensions across ...

    Maybe he knew what he was doing. Maybe he didn’t. Either way, Emmanuel Macron set France and Europe on a new collision course with the Islamic world last month. Macron managed to outrage mainstream Muslim opinion and,apparently, to energise extremists

    geopolitical rivalries do not explain the depth and breadth of Muslim-world fury. That stems from dismay felt by the overwhelmingly nonviolent Muslim majority about entrenched European Islamophobia,racial discrimination, cultural insensitivity, and heartless migrant policies.
    Further afield, perceived French neocolonialism in the Sahel and apparent western indifference to the endless horrors in Syria, Yemen,Afghanistan, Myanmar and Xinjiang feed tensions.

    A Pew Research survey last year foundt hat solid majorities of people in the UK, France, the Netherlands,Germany and Sweden hold positive opinions of Muslims in their country.

    Although far-right populist parties continue to exploit fears about identity and immigration, especially among less-educated and older people, and although recorded incidents of Islamophobia are up,overall tensions have fallen compared with five years ago.

    On the other hand, the French policy mandating assimilation into a prescriptively “lay” society appears too rigid. Macron should think again about how it is applied.
    It’s plain the relationship between Muslims and non-Muslims in Europe remains fragile. The danger is obvious.

    -------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    "This week, the Charlie Hebdo’s issue features a disgusting cartoon of the funeral of the French beheaded teacher."

    How long will it be, before teachers murder Charli Hebdo staffers?
    So, you take my quote out of context to make it seem like it has a completely different meaning.
    I wrote,"This week, the Charlie Hebdo’s issue features a disgusting cartoon of the funeral of the French beheaded teacher, showing officers carrying two coffins, one for the body, one for the head"
    As the C.Hebdo founder wrote,"Nothing is sacred. Principle No. 1. Not even your own mother, not the Jewish martyrs, not even people starving of hunger"


    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; November 03, 2020 at 04:31 AM. Reason: Unnecessary.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  9. #129

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    Pascal Bruckner's commentary on the cynical, yet extremely dangerous, alliance between socialists and Islamic radicals goes someway toward explaining the left's absurd reaction to Macron's defiance of terrorism:
    It has been pretty astonishing to watch the reaction from the political left in the wake of these attacks, even with everything known about the dynamic you highlight here. The outrage from that corner of the political spectrum has been directed not at the Islamic radicals terrorizing French civilians, nor at the openly defensive reaction from the Islamic world, but at the very secular values that defined the French Revolution and mandate secular society there today. In my view, it goes beyond the habitual attitude of appeasement toward all things perceived to clash with what one might collectively refer to as western norms. We’re now seeing those who would speak against Islamic radicalism and related attacks blamed for causing them. That’s not only appeasement. It is victim blaming.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  10. #130

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Have you considered that Macron doesn’t want French people to be shot, blown up or decapitated? That he doesn’t want segregation between the sexes? That he doesn’t want a country segregated down sectarian lines?
    Does he want kids to be molested?
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  11. #131

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    It has been pretty astonishing to watch the reaction from the political left in the wake of these attacks, even with everything known about the dynamic you highlight here. The outrage from that corner of the political spectrum has been directed not at the Islamic radicals terrorizing French civilians, nor at the openly defensive reaction from the Islamic world, but at the very secular values that defined the French Revolution and mandate secular society there today. In my view, it goes beyond the habitual attitude of appeasement toward all things perceived to clash with what one might collectively refer to as western norms. We’re now seeing those who would speak against Islamic radicalism and related attacks blamed for causing them. That’s not only appeasement. It is victim blaming.
    The left's apologetics and deflections (which are on full display in this thread) are the height of anti-intellectualism; they are the inevitable consequence of a mentality which seeks to accommodate petty tribal interests (however irrational) at the expense of reason and universal principles.



  12. #132

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    The left's apologetics and deflections (which are on full display in this thread) are the height of anti-intellectualism; they are the inevitable consequence of a mentality which seeks to accommodate petty tribal interests (however irrational) at the expense of reason and universal principles.
    You are lying. No one here argued in any way to accommodate any kind of tribal interest. That course of argumentation is what's intellectually dishonest here. In one way, its lazy argumentation as you're running away from putting forward an intellectual thought on the matter, instead you're catering to lazy biases people have.
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  13. #133
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    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Nice church attacker identified as 21-year-old Tunisian man

    Brahim Aouissaoui, who killed three people, reportedly arrived in France in early October

    The man who killed three people in a knife attack in a church in Nice on France’s Côte D’Azur on Thursday has been named as Brahim Aouissaoui, a 21-year-old Tunisian migrant.

    Aouissaoui arrived on the Italian island of Lampedusa in late September, when authorities placed him in coronavirus quarantine before releasing him with an order to leave Italian territory. He arrived in France in early October, sources close to the investigation told the AFP news agency.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...d-tunisian-man

    -----------------------------------

    I remember INTERPOL warned the European nations several times about this issue:
    https://www.interpol.int/News-and-Ev...rder-operation
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...to-be-in-italy
    LOTR mod for Shogun 2 Total War (Campaign and Battles!)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIywmAgUxQU

  14. #134
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Nobody wants the French people to be shot, blown up or decapited. Have you considered that Macron, to get more votes, with an amazing lack of diplomatic skills, added fuel to the fire?
    I have not, because there is not a single shred of evidence for that. Why are you so quick to criticise Macron for standing up for liberalism?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  15. #135

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    The previous attack was also done by a guy who recently passed through Italy. Its as if these border security measures are done to make it possible for such attacks...
    The Armenian Issue

  16. #136

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Trump is not a source. The white supremacist website Stormfront is not a source. The Guardian is an excellent newspaper. I quote, from the Wiki,
    Objectively Guardian to the left is same thing as InfoWars to the right.
    Is there a reason for the inverted commas? the fanatic terrorist is a white supremacist, not a "white supremacist".
    In France, more than 1,000 Islamophobic incidents occurred in 2019 including 70 physical attacks. Just for comparison, if I remember well, other than Muslim countries, only Merkel described the mosque attacks in New Zealand as terrorism.
    A little history, the other side of the coin,
    That's not my quote. Clicking on the arrows shows that I never said that. In any case, the biggest source for violence against Muslims are... other Muslims. Not to mention that in Western countries attacks by Muslims on non-Muslims are still more frequent then the opposite.
    "Afraid to go outside", rings a bell?
    Just like non-Muslims in Muslim countries. Some minorities to you are definitely more equal then the others....
    I can't make your words my own " They are just butthurt because their "prophet" is mocked"- mainly because Judaism was not mocked, and yet the NYT apologized for publishing an "antisemitic"cartoon.Yes, there is a blatant double standard.
    Judaism and Christianity in the West are mocked all the time - from classics like Life of Brian to modern adult cartoons and metal music. Also to Muslims mocking Judaism is same as mocking Islam itself, since Abraham is "prophet" in both.

  17. #137
    Mithradates's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    To make the situation even worse, it goes without saying that France suffers from a weaponised, radical secularism.
    Watch the video https://twitter.com/i/status/118265477931667865 to understand what that means in a practical context. Requires only a very basic knowledge of the French language.
    link doesnt work so, what is "radical" secularism?

    Is secularism islamophobic?

    ----

    Lets show the world how peaceful we are!
    Lay siege to French Embassy!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  18. #138

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Judaism and Christianity in the West are mocked all the time - from classics like Life of Brian to modern adult cartoons and metal music. Also to Muslims mocking Judaism is same as mocking Islam itself, since Abraham is "prophet" in both.
    Except many of them receive violent treatment as well. The response, however, is much different. When an anti-Islamic content gets published its turned into a freedom of speech crusade. When an anti-Judaism or anti-Christian content gets published people either take turns to apologize or its kept down low.
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  19. #139
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    And what are your examples of this double standard, and why does it matter?
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus
    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  20. #140

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    And what are your examples of this double standard, and why does it matter?
    You ignored me mentioning them multiple times already. Clearly, me pointing out Macron's lack of targeting of Catholic priests that molested thousands of French kids isn't convenient for certain narratives.
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