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Thread: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

  1. #41
    dogukan's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    The Islam problem is not something that is tied to "Western elite". Stop tying this issue to your dogmatic world view.

    This is a terrible event and I hope Europeans take better measures against these things, including a new approach to the question of Islam (such as not defending it) so as to not give way to far-right movements feeding of these events.

    Although most Muslims are not such extremists, Islam has a tendency to produce an anti-democratic mindset. This is an issue related to many variables including the cultural forms of Islam that evolved up to this day, the domineering political movements and cultural images-behaviours people embraces (especially in the West) and an attempt to become a "counter-culture" of mostly youth within Europe is something that is headed towards dangerous places.

    Forming of large Muslim communities within the West prevents proper integrations and entrenches the more fundamentalists views. By this point, many young Muslims in the West seem to feel alienated and radicalism seems to have strong roots by now.

    I am an atheist in a Muslim majority country. Since I do not believe in Islam, there is no point in debating "true Islam"...but what matters is the domineering cultural forms that are emerging from within Muslim communities. And while majority is perhaps becoming part of the global world, a really significant portion is adopting these counter-culture forms that are still very strong.
    Unfortunately, Islam has not gone through what Christianity did, an indepth internal conflict over the role of state and religion, democracy, diversity of beliefs. Even in Turkey, the countering of Islamist reactionary movements were done by replacing Islamism with an alternative nationalist-cult following, kept by the iron-hand of an army which is failing today. Similar situations exists in Egypt, Syria and Iraq. Even the relatively more "sufism" oriented Islams of far East are starting to produce more radical versions from among themselves.

    As Macron have said, Islam is going through a global crisis and it is not going for the better.
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

  2. #42

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    The guy accuses me of "tying issue to my dogmatic view", then proceeds to ignore the elephant in the room - the fact that large Muslim communities in the West became a thing because of policies pushed by elites for decades. Again, it is time to come to realization that we need a real leadership replacement, not just on political level - changes need to be done to prevent rich and privileged from exerting too much influence on politics at the expense of everyone else. I'm disappointed that someone who is exposed to Islamism problem in Turkey isn't able to see that West has a similar problem with cult-like leftist ideology pushed by Western elites.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Europe is done for, Macron won't lay a finger on the Muslim community because it's easier to punish people like the teacher for inciting anger. Add to that the growing population of Muslims in W. Europe, well, you better watch your words!
    Last edited by Aexodus; October 18, 2020 at 07:03 PM. Reason: off topic

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    One of the designers in my team at work is Muslim. They haven't tried to blow up my office yet. And they wear the same brands of clothing as me.

    Should I be worried?
    Not until you crack a joke about the prophet Muhammad PHUB and they report you to their islamic groups and one of them decides to chop your head off.

    See, this is the sort of burying your head in the sand sort of thing people in the West do. Most of the members here can afford high performance PCs and are therefore unlikely to live near the "ghetto" areas where these islamic gangs live.

    Islam by its very nature exists as a subversive force designed to assume power in the case of chaos and civil war. To have such a force in the homeland of Saint Louis is an affront indeed to one of the greatest French Kings.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Morticia Iunia Bruti View Post
    Sorry, what have outdated studies from economists about Libanon, Pakistan and Israel from 2005 and older to do with the current situation in France?

    Nothing.

    Its nothing more as a try to portrait muslims worldwide as a hive mind popluation like the Zergs, who behave worldwide after exactly the same pattern.

    Social pseudo-science.
    This is worse than a non-argument, but for the record, half the studies Genava posted were published within the last 8 years. That the same pattern was observed in 16 different countries actually strengthens the case Genava was making. In contrast, I didn't see a single data point directly relevant to your claim in the wiki article you copy-pasted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  6. #46

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by dogukan View Post
    The Islam problem is not something that is tied to "Western elite". Stop tying this issue to your dogmatic world view.
    With limited exceptions, Islamism and Islamic militancy are systemic problems in the Middle East and parts of South Asia and Africa. The "western elite" has aggravated and amplified this radicalism through its failed interventions (particularly Iraq, Libya and Syria), its alignment with theocratic regimes such as Saudi Arabia, its support for "moderate" rebel groups, its importation of millions of Muslims into Europe and its commitment to "hate-speech" legislation which indulges the idea that certain groups have a right to be free from criticism, scrutiny, mockery or offence. At the same time, it has also largely refused to pursue the sort of integrationist policies which would have prevented (or at least limited) the ethnic and religious stratification which has occurred.
    Last edited by Cope; October 19, 2020 at 03:47 AM.



  7. #47
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Doen't change the fact, that its unscientific to compare socio-economic different societies of 16 third-world countries with France.

    I'm quite sure you would object to make conclusions from the criminal records of the closed society of Brooklyn Haredim Jews to the behavior of Jews worldwide.
    Last edited by Morticia Iunia Bruti; October 19, 2020 at 01:53 AM.
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  8. #48

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    To have such a force in the homeland of Saint Louis is an affront indeed to one of the greatest French Kings.
    Pro tip: he doesn't care.
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Saint Louis looks on in approval as modern French Chevaliers conduct revenge raids against islamic groups
    France conducts more police ops after teacher’s murder, plans to dissolve Muslim NGOs branded ‘enemies of republic’ – minister

    Source: https://www.rt.com/news/503894-franc...ions-islamism/

    France's very soul is at stake, either be cowed into submission by the religion defined by "submission" or fight for egalite, fraternity & Liberte

  10. #50

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    I’m not sure Saint Louis will care. Being a corpse for seven hundred years tends to make one ambivalent. Especially towards the Republic that beheaded his direct descendent and namesake.

    France's very soul is at stake, either be cowed into submission by the religion defined by "submission" or fight for egalite, fraternity & Liberte
    You would think with rhetoric like this the Germans were once again rolling through the Ardennes.


    Not until you crack a joke about the prophet Muhammad PHUB and they report you to their islamic groups and one of them decides to chop your head off.
    So this is your general experience with Muslims then? Tell me, o brave warrior of liberty, why are you now then still standing?

    See, this is the sort of burying your head in the sand sort of thing people in the West do. Most of the members here can afford high performance PCs and are therefore unlikely to live near the "ghetto" areas where these islamic gangs live.
    As opposed to white gangs, who are obviously all benevolent angels that group together to help the elderly cross the road. I don’t think ethnicity or faith is any pre-requisite to criminal activity. Rather strange argument really when these so called ‘zealots’ who follow scripture to the letter are presumably breaking their own rules by committing crime? Less wealthy areas contain more crime, this is nothing new.


    I think the general reaction here is blowing one instance of a tragic attack way out of proportion into some global conspiracy against the western world. The majority of people are not going to react to the death of a man by ‘blaming the victim’ and calling to a limit on free speech. Neither will the French govt, given their stance on the Charlie Hebdo attacks five years ago. I don’t think cracking down on Muslim communities is the answer either, unless you’re looking for a target to persecute.

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Very unfortunate tragedy. France needs to find out how the young man became radicalized enough to want to behead someone for insulting his religion. Being Chechen, i wonder if he was influenced by Kadyrov.

  12. #52

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfus View Post
    As opposed to white gangs, who are obviously all benevolent angels that group together to help the elderly cross the road.
    What is this "white" faith you people keep mentioning? Must be something exotic since I haven't encountered it yet.


    I don’t think ethnicity or faith is any pre-requisite to criminal activity. Rather strange argument really when these so called ‘zealots’ who follow scripture to the letter are presumably breaking their own rules by committing crime? Less wealthy areas contain more crime, this is nothing new.
    Ah yes, ignoring multiple factors in favour of simple explanations. Never heard that one before. Poverty = crime, that's why all poor people are equally criminal

  13. #53

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    What is this "white" faith you people keep mentioning? Must be something exotic since I haven't encountered it yet.

    Ah yes, ignoring multiple factors in favour of simple explanations. Never heard that one before. Poverty = crime, that's why all poor people are equally criminal
    You people. Who exactly are ‘you people’?

    Thanks for completely misrepresenting my argument. Obviously the explanation that Muslims = bad is much more complex than looking at the social issues around poverty, immigration and crime... a nice boogeyman to scare your kids to sleep at night.

  14. #54

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfus View Post
    You people. Who exactly are ‘you people’?

    Thanks for completely misrepresenting my argument. Obviously the explanation that Muslims = bad is much more complex than looking at the social issues around poverty, immigration and crime... a nice boogeyman to scare your kids to sleep at night.
    I wouldn't call Saudi Royals and oligarchs impoverished migrants, and they are the world's main sponsors of terrorism.
    The reason has more to do with Islam itself, rather then issues like poverty and crime. Again, if such was the case, we wouldn't see religious terrorism among privileged muslims immigrant communities in Western Europe.

  15. #55

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Al Qaeda plot to destroy a fresco depicting Muhammad in hell and an ignored petition to remove a picture of Muhammad from Wikipedia doesn't exactly help your case. Use words please. The fact is this became an issue recently.
    Can you explain to us why the frescoes in Agia Sofia (at least those depicting human forms, such as the saints, or the Virgin Mary) were covered when it was recently used as a mosque instead of a museum?


    What amazes me is the attitude of the Western Left, which seems ever so eager to underplay acts committed by the islamists, whereas they overplay (the few) acts committed by the Far Right.I wonder if they sincerely believe they would be better off with an islamist society. If so, I think that they could try and live in Quatar or Somalia for a couple of months.

    The Truth is Hate for those who hate the Truth.

  16. #56

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    I wouldn't call Saudi Royals and oligarchs impoverished migrants, and they are the world's main sponsors of terrorism.
    The reason has more to do with Islam itself, rather then issues like poverty and crime. Again, if such was the case, we wouldn't see religious terrorism among privileged muslims immigrant communities in Western Europe.
    Indeed, but the rhetoric is not being levied at oligarchs but instead the general Muslim population of western nations, characterised as an Islamic ‘gang’ or death squads, who are either waiting in the wings to be told who to murder for breaking blasphemy laws or busy dominating their local ‘ghetto’.

    Quote Originally Posted by ioannis76 View Post

    What amazes me is the attitude of the Western Left, which seems ever so eager to underplay acts committed by the islamists, whereas they overplay (the few) acts committed by the Far Right.I wonder if they sincerely believe they would be better off with an islamist society. If so, I think that they could try and live in Quatar or Somalia for a couple of months.
    A hint of false equivalency when you equate not advocating for general discrimination towards Muslims to tolerance and even appetite for radical Islamic extremism and a wish to be complicit in it

  17. #57

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by ioannis76 View Post
    Can you explain to us why the frescoes in Agia Sofia (at least those depicting human forms, such as the saints, or the Virgin Mary) were covered when it was recently used as a mosque instead of a museum?


    What amazes me is the attitude of the Western Left, which seems ever so eager to underplay acts committed by the islamists, whereas they overplay (the few) acts committed by the Far Right.I wonder if they sincerely believe they would be better off with an islamist society. If so, I think that they could try and live in Quatar or Somalia for a couple of months.
    Western Left is more similar to a cult itself, which explains why leftist political narrative is irrational and divorced from reality. They virtue signal by decrying any criticism of Islam and its extreme views as "islamophobia", even though they themselves would be put to death under ideology they defend.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfus View Post
    Indeed, but the rhetoric is not being levied at oligarchs but instead the general Muslim population of western nations, characterised as an Islamic ‘gang’ or death squads, who are either waiting in the wings to be told who to murder for breaking blasphemy laws or busy dominating their local ‘ghetto’.
    So at least we agree that problem is not with broad definitions like poverty and crime, but rather specifically with Islamic teachings themselves, and Western left's hypocrisy on refusing to acknowledge that they are bad.
    Last edited by Heathen Hammer; October 19, 2020 at 02:38 PM.

  18. #58

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by ioannis76 View Post
    Can you explain to us why the frescoes in Agia Sofia (at least those depicting human forms, such as the saints, or the Virgin Mary) were covered when it was recently used as a mosque instead of a museum?
    Because its regarded as idol worship. In homes, many Muslim even turn down photos of family if they're praying in that direction. So, its not about having Christian saints or the Virgin Mary, its about having human depictions.
    The Armenian Issue

  19. #59

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    And what ‘problem’ is that? I think if Islamic teachings were as dangerous as you seem to believe there would surely be far more issues than a lone teacher’s death. Considering how large the global Muslim population is the so called “Islamic State” didn’t seem an attractive proposition to many of them. While I’m not fond of Islam or any religion for that matter I should think freedom of religion would be a rather basic point of agreement... Having met many a Muslim and come out unscathed I can’t help but think the idea of a global Islamist conspiracy is rather overcooked.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfus View Post
    And what ‘problem’ is that? I think if Islamic teachings were as dangerous as you seem to believe there would surely be far more issues than a lone teacher’s death. Considering how large the global Muslim population is the so called “Islamic State” didn’t seem an attractive proposition to many of them. While I’m not fond of Islam or any religion for that matter I should think freedom of religion would be a rather basic point of agreement... Having met many a Muslim and come out unscathed I can’t help but think the idea of a global Islamist conspiracy is rather overcooked.
    Huh? We are talking about France, which had a pretty big number of such attacks since 2015, even more attacks happen in other parts of Western Europe like Germany and UK, and in those nations Muslim immigrants are privileged, so saying that they are driven to this by poverty is simply not a valid answer. And fighters were drawn to Islamic state from all over the world, including Muslim immigrant communities in Western nations. Again the issue is Islam and Muslim communities in Western Europe themselves, as immigrant populations do not integrate and retain the Islamic customs of their home nations even being 2nd or 3d generation immigrants.

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