Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Irrelevant to the real point. Charlie Hebdo is not the free speech champion it says it is.The then-editor Philippe Val fired him.

..And he was found to be in the wrong for doing so and was penalised.

[Ludicus]

..And he was found to be in the wrong for doing so and was penalised.

Irrelevant, the cartoonist was fired.Forever. I'm talking about Charlie Hebdo double standards. If the Charlie Hebdo is a free speech champion- as they say- cartoonists have the right to publish material that may offend. Yet Siné was fired for being antisemite.Nobody got ever fired for being being islamophobe.
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In Germany, in the 1920's, the most notorious of the Nazi anti-semitic newspapers was "Der Strumer". It began in 1923. It specialized in selling the idea that the Jews were the worst enemy of the Germans, with the slogan "Die Juden sind unser Ungluck" (The Jews are our misfortune). Now, it seems that the Muslims are our misfortune.
The anti-Semitic cartoons of Philip Rupprecht (see below) were greatly appreciated. Der Sturmer would also be distributed in North America and was extremely popular.
Later,as the Jews disappeared from Germany, and were incinerated in nazi extermination camps, the circulation of the paper dropped drastically: no Jews, no cartoons.

For educational purposes only,



And - Caricatures from Der Stuermer - Calvin University
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Don’t ask me how relevant are these examples for the "Islamic rape of Europe”, the myth of "Eurabia”,Breivik’s "European declaration of Independence", or the "the idea of the great replacement".
Let me blunt: No Muslims, no cartoons.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Irrelevant, the cartoonist was fired.Forever. I'm talking about Charlie Hebdo double standards. If the Charlie Hebdo is a free speech champion- as they say- cartoonists have the right to publish material that may offend. Yet Siné was fired for being antisemite.Nobody got ever fired for being being islamophobe.

I agree, he should not have been fired.
Charlie Hebdo might not have treated both cases equally, but the law did, and that's what matters. Whether or not Charlie Hebdo applies double standard is irrelevant to the simple fact that neither anti-semetism nor islamophobia excuse murder, and your attempts to derail the topic by assigning blame to the victim and tainting the victim's reputation are equivalent to posting an article about the correlation between wearing revealing clothing and rape on a thread about rape victims. It's disgusting.

[Cope]

It is obscene to contort the deaths of innocent people at the hands of Islamic fanatics into a conspiracy that cartoons are provoking an ethnic cleansing of Muslims on a scale comparable to the Holocaust.

It is similarly grotesque to suggest that what really matters here isn’t the brutal murders of satirists, teachers and worshippers: it’s that a small, far-left magazine doesn’t criticize Islam and Judaism in equal measure.

[PointOfViewGun]

It's really not interesting to see people triggered by voicing of opinions that point out many shades of an issue instead of merely catering to their own biases.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

It's really not interesting to see people triggered by voicing of opinions that point out many shades of an issue instead of merely catering to their own biases.

Would you respond the same way to people ridiculing someone for stating that a rape victim had been promiscuous in the past and wore revealing clothes?

[PointOfViewGun]

Would you respond the same way to people ridiculing someone for stating that a rape victim had been promiscuous in the past and wore revealing clothes?

It's equally not interesting to see someone utilize a false comparison. I'm praying for some originality.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

It's equally not interesting to see someone utilize a false comparison. I'm praying for some originality.

It's also not original to see you providing excuses for this. The problem is not those who mock a religion, the problem is those that think that doing so justifies murder. It's very much a black and white issue, there is no grey area here. The reputation of Charlie Hebdo and their standards or lack thereof is irrelevant.

[PointOfViewGun]

It's also not original to see you providing excuses for this. The problem is not those who mock a religion, the problem is those that think that doing so justifies murder. It's very much a black and white issue, there is no grey area here. The reputation of Charlie Hebdo and their standards or lack thereof is irrelevant.

Oh, its not an excuse at all. It's lazy argumentation to call it as such. I'm merely following an intelligent path that recognizes that many conflicts have many factors in play. There are many wrong doings. There are many victims. I have the ability to see the wrongs of both the terror attack and how the cartoons were used. I don't have to trade in one for the other. You should also refrain from making the mistake of accusing people of justifying terrorism. It's a common tactic to shift focus. An uninteresting one at that.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Oh, its not an excuse at all. It's lazy argumentation to call it as such. I'm merely following an intelligent path that recognizes that many conflicts have many factors in play. There are many wrong doings. There are many victims. I have the ability to see the wrongs of both the terror attack and how the cartoons were used. I don't have to trade in one for the other. You should also refrain from making the mistake of accusing people of justifying terrorism. It's a common tactic to shift focus. An uninteresting one at that.

You're following an unintelligent attempt to take this thread off topic, meanwhile accusing me of attempting to shift focus. Funny that.

[PointOfViewGun]

You're following an unintelligent attempt to take this thread off topic, meanwhile accusing me of attempting to focus. Funny that.

To what am I shifting the focus to?

[Cope]

You're following an unintelligent attempt to take this thread off topic, meanwhile accusing me of attempting to shift focus. Funny that.

For some, acknowledging the threat of Islamism or the barbarism of the attacks is tantamount to ceding ground to the “far-right”. Others feel that their worldviews are being challenged too intensely or that the fallout is putting their narrow identity interests at risk. And so they obfuscate, mislead, distract, victim blame, project and introduce the irrelevant as a means of defence.

[Ludicus]

CharlieHebdo might not have treated both cases equally,

That’s because Charlie Hebdo is a racist, islamophobe newspaper.

neither anti-semetism nor islamophobia excuse murder,

That's not my point, so don’t insist.

It is obscene to contort the deaths of innocent people at the hands of Islamic fanatics into a conspiracy that cartoons are provoking an ethnic cleansing of Muslims on a scale comparable to the Holocaust.

Good try,my dear,

PDF)Islamophobia in Modern-Day... vs. the Antisemitism of the Holocaust....

While nothing should be taken away from the horrible acts committed against the Jewish people, I believe there are enough similarities between the treatment currently being faced by Muslims and that faced by the Jews prior to the Holocaust to make people take notice and make changes so that history does not repeat itself in the form of a Holocaust-type event against those of the Muslim faith

France: Former Minister Criticizes Caricatures' 'Pornographic ...

Amid the onging debate about freedom of speech in France, the former French Minister of Education, Luc Ferry... denounced...in order to teach freedom of speech, we don’t have to show cartoons that border on pornography. The statement was Ferry’s first public response to the murder of French teacher Samuel Paty on October 16.

“We can teach freedom of speech without showing pornographic and ignoble drawings. God knows that I am not defending Islamist terrorism, but I think that we do not have to insult people in order to defend freedom of speech,” Ferry declared.
The former minister also criticized the fact that a large number of caricatures published in France under the name of freedom of speech target Islam and Muslims.

That's what I have been saying. Islamophobia and xenophobic rhetoric seek to isolate European and American Muslim communities.

[PointOfViewGun]

For some, acknowledging the threat of Islamism or the barbarism of the attacks is tantamount to ceding ground to the “far-right”. Others feel that their worldviews are being challenged too intensely or that the fallout is putting their narrow identity interests at risk. And so they obfuscate, mislead, distract, victim blame, project and introduce the irrelevant as a means of defence.

Textbook projection. I understand that you fail to see how that kind of mental gymnastics is exactly what you're opting to do.

[Cope]

Good try,my dear islamophobe,

PDF)Islamophobia in Modern-Day... vs. the Antisemitism of the Holocaust....

The offered source is a non-peer reviewed essay authored by a postgraduate student. It makes no mention of Charlie Hebdo, its cartoons or the issue of free speech. Islamic terrorism in France is mentioned only in passing.

More importantly, the non-credentialed author openly concedes that her case (which is largely predicated on anaemic comparisons and circumstantial evidence) stands against expert opinion – a point which was duplicitously, but predictably, omitted above, even though the admission appears immediately prior to the cited excerpt.

The quotation expanded:

Professors Joseph Bulbulia, Geoffrey Troughton, John Shaver, and Chris Sibley state that while there may be apparent similarities in Islamophobia and other prejudices against other groups of people, “there are inadequate methods for comparing anti-Muslim prejudice to other minority group prejudices” (1). Michael Dobkowski does not go so far as to say there are no similarities in Islamophobia and anti-Semitism. However, he does acknowledge that it is possible that the treatment of Muslims “is being compared to the Holocaust simply because the Holocaust is synonymous with hatred and prejudice towards a group of people” (321). I respectfully have to disagree with these experts in the field. While nothing should be taken away from the horrible acts committed against the Jewish people, I believe there are enough similarities between the treatment currently being faced by Muslims and that faced by the Jews prior to the Holocaust to make people take notice and make changes so that history does not repeat itself in the form of a Holocaust-type event against those of the Muslim faith.

To summarize: the intellectual origin of the petty propaganda/conspiracy detailed in post #222 is the unqualified, under evidenced opinions of a college student whose work was misleadingly presented as a credible analysis.

Good try indeed.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

To what am I shifting the focus to?

Charlie Hebdo's reputation.

That’s because Charlie Hebdo is a racist, islamophobe newspaper.

Even if it is, so what?

That's not my point, so don’t insist.

What is it then? just to point out its standards with no relation to the thread? Surely it must be in some way related to the topic, no?

Good try,my dear,

PDF)Islamophobia in Modern-Day... vs. the Antisemitism of the Holocaust....


France: Former Minister Criticizes Caricatures' 'Pornographic ...


That's what I have been saying. Islamophobia and xenophobic rhetoric seek to isolate European and American Muslim communities.

Laughable. How many anti-Muslim pogroms has Europe witnessed? How many Muslim owned businesses attacked and looted? I'm willing to wager less than Jewish owned in the last couple of years.

[PointOfViewGun]

Charlie Hebdo's reputation.

Reputation, aka different standards they use in dealing with different religions. I do understand why you get triggered by that, yet, it's hardly an attempt to shift focus.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Reputation, aka different standards they use in dealing with different religions.

Explain how that is relevant when you allegedly agree that that does not excuse murder.

I do understand why you get triggered by that, yet, it's hardly an attempt to shift focus.

I've already stated that they should not have fired the guy for the supposedly anti-semetic cartoon and I've always been consistent on my stance on free speech.

[Genava]

That’s because Charlie Hebdo is a racist, islamophobe newspaper.

SOS-Racisme, a leading organisation against racisme in France, doesn't share your opinion:
https://sos-racisme.org/a-ceux-qui-n...-etre-charlie/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy8QNhlpe5Q

Use google translate or learn baguette if you want to understand the topic.

[Ludicus]

A must read. Do French children learn the distinction between free and hate speech?

The killing of Samuel Patty, a Paris school teacher by a fanatic youth over offensive cartoons on prophet Muhammad and subsequent spats between French and Islamic leaders put the French public secular schooling ethos under the scanner...

France's non white population suffers multiple forms of systemic racism, often in the form of Islamophobia, France is not the free-speech champion it says it is | Amnesty

Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of Interior, has announced his intention to dissolve the Collective Against Islamophobia in France (CCIF), an organization that combats discrimination against Muslims. He has described the CCIF as ‘an enemy of the Republic’ and a ‘backroom of terrorism’. The Minister has not produced any evidence that could substantiate his claims.

While many in the US and abroad have hopes for the Biden/Harris administration to tackle entrenched racism,the French Ministry of Education has engaged in a cultural war. It has argued that attempts to tackle entrenched racism are based on ideas ‘imported from the US’(1) and that they are a fertile ground for ‘separatism and extremism’.
Butit is not extremist to note that Muslims and other minorities are victims of racism in France. It is factual, and to say so is a right protected by freedom of expression.
The French government’s rhetoric on free speech is not enough to conceal its own shameless hypocrisy.

(1)In fact, Joe Biden has promised to tackle systemic racism head on
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France's Demonization of Muslims Is Getting Worse - Jacobin

(…) But this appalling murder — or, more particularly, the political bid to exploit it — also make up part of a wider story about how terrorist outrages are used to attack Muslims in general.