Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

[Gandalfus]

Well I can only speak to my own experience in the UK. Two attacks in the UK this year isn’t exactly a huge number. Two the year previous to that, too. And the argument of Muslim ‘gangs’ being made earlier seemed to imply that they were all part of a large crime ring, hence my pointing out the implausibility of general crime being linked to religious extremism. What does ‘privileged’ even mean in this context?

Depends how you define integration. The vast majority are quick to learn the language, pursue education, get a job, et cetera.

[Heathen Hammer]

Well I can only speak to my own experience in the UK. Two attacks in the UK this year isn’t exactly a huge number. Two the year previous to that, too. And the argument of Muslim ‘gangs’ being made earlier seemed to imply that they were all part of a large crime ring, hence my pointing out the implausibility of general crime being linked to religious extremism. What does ‘privileged’ even mean in this context?

Depends how you define integration. The vast majority are quick to learn the language, pursue education, get a job, et cetera.

Anecdotal evidence isn't an argument. UK had quite a lot of Islamic terrorism from "trucks of peace" to bombings of concerts, not to mention the Muslim immigrant rape gangs, which police was ignoring for years, while arresting people for mocking Islam. Sounds like privilege to me. If they integrated, they'd be less inclined to travel abroad to join ISIS and they'd be more inclined to protest terrorist attacks, yet they get more outraged over mockery of "prophet" then over violence in his name.

[PointOfViewGun]

Anecdotal evidence isn't an argument. UK had quite a lot of Islamic terrorism from "trucks of peace" to bombings of concerts, not to mention the Muslim immigrant rape gangs, which police was ignoring for years, while arresting people for mocking Islam. Sounds like privilege to me. If they integrated, they'd be less inclined to travel abroad to join ISIS and they'd be more inclined to protest terrorist attacks, yet they get more outraged over mockery of "prophet" then over violence in his name.

Why not be consistent? After trucks of peace, continue with bombs of peace, followed by rape gangs of peace, and finally arrests of peace. There you go. It's important for you to use the right terminology. Only through such non-existent privilege of peace you can prevail!

[Gandalfus]

Anecdotal evidence isn't an argument. UK had quite a lot of Islamic terrorism from "trucks of peace" to bombings of concerts, not to mention the Muslim immigrant rape gangs, which police was ignoring for years, while arresting people for mocking Islam. Sounds like privilege to me. If they integrated, they'd be less inclined to travel abroad to join ISIS and they'd be more inclined to protest terrorist attacks, yet they get more outraged over mockery of "prophet" then over violence in his name.

So you think this is the normal week of a Muslim in the UK? Monday and Tuesday, molest some minors. Wednesday, stab an officer. Thursday, drive a truck into a building and then finally cap it all off on Friday by bombing a concert and getting a man arrested for insulting Muhammad. Saturday, sleep off the hangover and fly off to Syria to enlist by Sunday morning. Man they are definitely privileged.

[Heathen Hammer]

So you think this is the normal week of a Muslim in the UK? Monday and Tuesday, molest some minors. Wednesday, stab an officer. Thursday, drive a truck into a building and then finally cap it all off on Friday by bombing a concert and getting a man arrested for insulting Muhammad. Saturday, sleep off the hangover and fly off to Syria to enlist by Sunday morning. Man they are definitely privileged.

Hyperbole isn't an argument.

[AqD]

Unfortunately, Islam has not gone through what Christianity did, an indepth internal conflict over the role of state and religion, democracy, diversity of beliefs. Even in Turkey, the countering of Islamist reactionary movements were done by replacing Islamism with an alternative nationalist-cult following, kept by the iron-hand of an army which is failing today. Similar situations exists in Egypt, Syria and Iraq. Even the relatively more "sufism" oriented Islams of far East are starting to produce more radical versions from among themselves.

Because Islam is being threatened and religion strengthens through pain and sufferings?

The problem is the fact that the ideology of ruling elites of the West is simply divorced from reality and based on archaic 1700s egalitarian notions that flourished among rich nobility of its era. Essentially it is easy to preach tolerance and multiculturalism for members of rich upper crust, when they are separated from consequences of their ideology, such is crime rates, violence against women and islamic terrorism.

I don't think they're actually ideologists or wanting to help, but they're just doing what is easy and appears to be humane and moral.

It's probably more related to democracy, or true democracy where politicians try or at least pretend to act on what people seek. You can't seriously ask the majority of educated people to publicly turn their back on the needy, to be intolerant, or criticize entire cultures or communities. Immigration is hardly the only issue, but what can you do? People cannot be expected to comprehend the depth of those issues or be turned into cold, calculating machines.

On the other hand, it's not much a problem in countries where elites dominate politics and with minimal input from people, such as Japan. But they have entirely different kinds of problems.

[LoZz]

Chechen are extremely zealous muslims btw.

Thats quite a broad brush you are casting - If anything the opposite is true, Alcohol is drunk in Chechnya, they did, for a time form regiments in the Russian army who fought against extremists within Chechnya. And while some do, most woman do not wear full coverings. you can watch some travel video's on the place.

At this rate, France would be better off re-educating these islamists in vocation schools; there is precedent for success in deradicalistion as we have sene in China and the uighurs.
Because the other alternative is just to exterminate them which appears to be the preference of Anglo nations; whether the gauls in france choose to go with their anglo cousins remains to be seen...

i'm sure their is a middle ground to be found that doesn't involve putting people in concentration camps.

Do you know for a fact how the guy that killed the teacher attained information?

it was reported locally on the BBC that he hung outside the school and asked students to identify the teacher. Now it's unknown if those students knew his intent, it could of been taken as an innocent question if was pretending to be a former student.

Anecdotal evidence isn't an argument. UK had quite a lot of Islamic terrorism from "trucks of peace" to bombings of concerts, not to mention the Muslim immigrant rape gangs, which police was ignoring for years, while arresting people for mocking Islam. Sounds like privilege to me. If they integrated, they'd be less inclined to travel abroad to join ISIS and they'd be more inclined to protest terrorist attacks, yet they get more outraged over mockery of "prophet" then over violence in his name.

that vast majority of the rape gangs you refer to were born and raised within the UK. While a few exceptions exist most of the Islamic terror attacks in the UK have come from people who have been born and radicalised within the UK.
Hundreds have since been arrested and sent to prison, you can't reasonably argue they get a free pass on that now. though the damage has been done.

between 800-1500 British Muslims have travelled to Syria to join ISIS. this is out of a population of 2.5 MILLION. that's 0.0006% of the population. It is a problem but lets not exaggerate the scale of the problem.

[Aexodus]

that vast majority of the rape gangs you refer to were born and raised within the UK. While a few exceptions exist most of the Islamic terror attacks in the UK have come from people who have been born and radicalised within the UK.

This points to adjacent social problems. That they grew up in the UK. The Chechen man obviously isn’t French, but the attacker could have been someone else, who was born in France.

between 800-1500 British Muslims have travelled to Syria to join ISIS. this is out of a population of 2.5 MILLION. that's 0.0006% of the population. It is a problem but lets not exaggerate the scale of the problem.

To put this in context, around 450 British Muslims serve in the British Army.

I hate to be anal, but your maths is wrong. That’s between 0.032% on the low end, to 0.06% of Muslims.

By the way, what I think some people are forgetting is the social media campaign in france against this school. Similar to the protestations of Muslim parents in Birmingham last year, what do we make of the intolerance towards caricature in France.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1243815

PARIS — A student said he warned his teacher about showing caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad, considered blasphemous by Muslims, days before he was decapitated on a Paris street in what French President Emmanuel Macron called an "Islamist terrorist attack."

Martial Lusiela, 15, told NBC News he was "shocked" by Friday afternoon's attack in the middle-class suburb of Conflans-Sainte-Honorine, north-west of the French capital.

"I didn't expect a decapitation — it went too far," he said, speaking with the permission of his parents, shortly after the incident that left his 47-year-old history teacher dead.

"We said to the teacher it was not good to show photos like this and that it would cause a huge problem," Lusiela said. "It's not a caricature you should show to the class, because there are Muslims in the class."

also:

Less than a month ago, a man originally from Pakistan used a meat cleaver to attack and wound two people who were on a cigarette break outside the offices where Charlie Hebdo was based at the time of the 2015 attack.

Finally, same poll, two headlines. Don’t let people manipulate you, but both headlines are correct.

[LoZz]

This points to adjacent social problems. That they grew up in the UK. The Chechen man obviously isn’t French, but the attacker could have been someone else, who was born in France.

he came to France as a young child, I don't know how young but i think he spent more time in France then Chechnya. France culture would of been a big impact on him as he went to school there.

To put this in context, around 450 British Muslims serve in the British Army.
I hate to be anal, but your maths is wrong. That’s between 0.032% on the low end, to 0.06% of Muslims.

I'm crap at maths it seems.

Also, its 450 now - people will join/leave all year. I'd bet money that more British Muslims have fought for Britain then against it.

By the way, what I think some people are forgetting is the social media campaign in france against this school. Similar to the protestations of Muslim parents in Birmingham last year, what do we make of the intolerance towards caricature in France.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1243815



also:



Finally, same poll, two headlines. Don’t let people manipulate you, but both headlines are correct.

indeed there was a protest in Birmingham, but no one chopped anyone's head off. No one attacked anyone, they exercised their right to peaceful protest. in 1999-2003 across the UK Christians protested against the banning of corporal punishment in private schools (public school ban had been in place since the late 80's) due to religious reasons. That wasn't so long ago and it was a protest based on religious views.

I don't disagree there is an extremist element to Islam that is not seen in other religions within the UK, but i will take with a pinch of salt anything the Israeli times has to say on the matter, But even if there figures are true that means 75% do not support violence, which is a clear majority.

[Exarch]

I’m not sure Saint Louis will care. Being a corpse for seven hundred years tends to make one ambivalent. Especially towards the Republic that beheaded his direct descendent and namesake.

St Louise was a christian first and foremost, i hazard a guess he would have more of an issue with muslims raping and pillaging across France than his own petty dynastic politics.

So this is your general experience with Muslims then? Tell me, o brave warrior of liberty, why are you now then still standing?

please read The Great Replacement by Tarrant; you need to educate yourself.

[Gandalfus]

St Louise was a christian first and foremost, i hazard a guess he would have more of an issue with muslims raping and pillaging across France than his own petty dynastic politics.

please read The Great Replacement by Tarrant; you need to educate yourself.

He would probably ask why the peasantry is not working the fields and then ask to be lowered back into his grave. The fact you arbitrarily base your opinions off a thirteenth century French king is rather novel to me. I suppose I should start looking to Edward Longshanks next to inform my opinions on feminism?

Raping and pillaging? Sorry, I did not realise I had been transported back into the eighth century. I must have slept through the rampaging Islamic horde besieging Paris.

@Aex: I’d hazard Muslims are more averse to serving in the army due to the recent conflicts being located in primarily Islamic countries, and the concern with collateral casualties that frequently crops up due to the inevitable civilian cost to warfare. Videos of children being blown up by American and British missiles tend not to garner sympathy for it.

[PointOfViewGun]

it was reported locally on the BBC that he hung outside the school and asked students to identify the teacher. Now it's unknown if those students knew his intent, it could of been taken as an innocent question if was pretending to be a former student.

Someone must have given him the name of the teacher. I don't really see much capacity in 13-14 year olds to decipher even if he was voicing his intent openly.

[Exarch]

He would probably ask why the peasantry is not working the fields and then ask to be lowered back into his grave. The fact you arbitrarily base your opinions off a thirteenth century French king is rather novel to me. I suppose I should start looking to Edward Longshanks next to inform my opinions on feminism?

Raping and pillaging? Sorry, I did not realise I had been transported back into the eighth century. I must have slept through the rampaging Islamic horde besieging Paris.
.

St Louis would definitely be pissed off and concerned at the great replacement of his french and christian brethren with the islamic jihadists. Look at this




As of 2019, 21.53% of newborns in France have muslim names; this is unacceptable. Eurabia will be the future if something is not done to save Francia.

[Gromovnik]

St Louis would definitely be pissed off and concerned at the great replacement of his french and christian brethren with the islamic jihadists.

As of 2019, 21.53% of newborns in France have muslim names; this is unacceptable. Eurabia will be the future if something is not done to save Francia.

1. St. Louis: How can you possibly know that?
2. Names: Why is it unacceptable? To whom?
3. Eurabia: No it won't. That's not the real life, that's just a fantasy. Caught in a landslide of utter stupidity.

[Coughdrop addict]

please read The Great Replacement by Tarrant; you need to educate yourself.

Just so we're all clear, you agree with the Christchurch shooter?

[Exarch]

1. St. Louis: How can you possibly know that?.

France is a majority catholic nation and a secular civil service enshrined in government; islamism threatens that secularism and the christian basis of that secularism, especially since the majority of young muslims in france ar demanding sharia despite being the main beneficiaries of the french custom of sensuality and easy living.

Let me illustrate:


66% of young muslims are in favour of Charlie Hebdo getting whacked for insulting the Prophet Muhammed PBUH. Is that acceptable for a nation founded on fraternity, egalite, liberty?!

[PointOfViewGun]

French Muslims, especially young ones, hardly experienced open arms. It's no surprise that they hold more extreme views. I don't know where the idea that majority of young Muslims in France want Sharia. Compared to foreign-born Muslims in France where 46% want Sharia, only 16% of native-born French Muslims want Sharia. I also don't know how 66% of young Muslims are in favor of Charlie Hebdo attacks when about 75% of them condemn it.

[Gromovnik]

France is a majority catholic nation and a secular civil service enshrined in government; islamism threatens that secularism and the christian basis of that secularism, especially since the majority of young muslims in france ar demanding sharia despite being the main beneficiaries of the french custom of sensuality and easy living.

66% of young muslims are in favour of Charlie Hebdo getting whacked for insulting the Prophet Muhammed PBUH. Is that acceptable for a nation founded on fraternity, egalite, liberty?!

That's not what I asked.

[Aexodus]

@Aex: I’d hazard Muslims are more averse to serving in the army due to the recent conflicts being located in primarily Islamic countries, and the concern with collateral casualties that frequently crops up due to the inevitable civilian cost to warfare. Videos of children being blown up by American and British missiles tend not to garner sympathy for it.

I know. It’s a big identity problem in France too in my opinion. People need to be able to put their nationality first or else society is fractured, and future war efforts could have big problems too.

[Heathen Hammer]

I don't think they're actually ideologists or wanting to help, but they're just doing what is easy and appears to be humane and moral.

It's probably more related to democracy, or true democracy where politicians try or at least pretend to act on what people seek. You can't seriously ask the majority of educated people to publicly turn their back on the needy, to be intolerant, or criticize entire cultures or communities. Immigration is hardly the only issue, but what can you do? People cannot be expected to comprehend the depth of those issues or be turned into cold, calculating machines.

On the other hand, it's not much a problem in countries where elites dominate politics and with minimal input from people, such as Japan. But they have entirely different kinds of problems.

Democracy only works when you can change real power. However when you have elections between politicians who will both do things nobody asked for (but happens to benefit some billionaires, like mass immigration or corporate bailouts), it isn't democracy, so I guess the point is the inherent flaw of representative democracy, where it can be easily subverted by the rich and powerful.