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Thread: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

  1. #101

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Islam isn't a religion that is in crisis over all the world. A very radical statement. Is Islamophobia replacing antisemitism? What Macron said is a bizarre attempt to take the French far-right electoral ground.
    It isn't really that radical, given how most Islamic countries as well as Islamic immigrant communities within West are mentally stuck in Middle Ages. Nothing to do with poverty either - plenty of Gulf theocracies are quite rich thanks to fossil fuel exports, while most Muslim communities in Europe are privileged in many ways.
    I dont buy the idea of a racist nationalism, the idea of the Christian occident and the French people on the one side and Islam and foreigners on the other, this opposition between friend and foe. We already know how it ends, the idea of a "Europe of Fatherlands"
    Nice strawman, bro. So far we see the exact opposite - anti-nationalist forces have always been destructive and strictly serve same rich elites that marxists claim to oppose. It is a good thing that both anti-nationalist ideologies (globalist liberalism and marxism) are dying out, while pragmatic nationalism is steadily growing in support across the Western world.

  2. #102
    Gandalfus's Avatar le Roi de fer
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    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    I find Turkey’s posturing in light of this situation hilarious with their call to #BoycottFrance over its treatment of Muslims. I don’t recall similar disdain being shown to the CCP and their ‘re-education’ camps in Xinjiang. Erdogan’s comparison of the French Government to the Nazis is equally laughable considering the Turkish government repeatedly refuses to recognise a certain event involving the Armenians.

    I do not think Macron’s criticism of Islam as being ‘in crisis‘ is racist in the slightest, and is a massive stretching of the definition. Whether it is accurate is another question. However, France is a heavily secularised nation in which only the Republic is held sacred, and given the ambivalence towards the principles of free speech shown in the wake of Charlie Hebdo and this incident I am not at all surprised changes have been made in France to try and secularise Islam in the country.

  3. #103
    Cope's Avatar 777777777777777
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    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    The Mail is reporting that two people have been beheaded in a Cathedral in Nice.

  4. #104

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    and it happened again, i'm so surprised

  5. #105

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfus View Post
    I find Turkey’s posturing in light of this situation hilarious with their call to #BoycottFrance over its treatment of Muslims. I don’t recall similar disdain being shown to the CCP and their ‘re-education’ camps in Xinjiang. Erdogan’s comparison of the French Government to the Nazis is equally laughable considering the Turkish government repeatedly refuses to recognise a certain event involving the Armenians.

    I do not think Macron’s criticism of Islam as being ‘in crisis‘ is racist in the slightest, and is a massive stretching of the definition. Whether it is accurate is another question. However, France is a heavily secularised nation in which only the Republic is held sacred, and given the ambivalence towards the principles of free speech shown in the wake of Charlie Hebdo and this incident I am not at all surprised changes have been made in France to try and secularise Islam in the country.
    Care to point out Macron's comments on the series of pedophilia cases that were discovered in the previous years? What measures did he propose against Catholic Christians? What kind of harsh speeches he gave against Catholic Christians that their priests can not molest French children? There are estimated to be over 3000 cases of sexual abuse by Catholic priests in France since 1950 after all.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    The Mail is reporting that two people have been beheaded in a Cathedral in Nice.
    This is exactly what Macron wanted. Just like Erdoğan uses Macron's comments to cater to right wingers, Macron has been banking on this attack to cater to right wingers in France.
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  6. #106
    Beorn's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Whataboutism at its best, as usual.

  7. #107
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    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    This is exactly what Macron wanted. Just like Erdoğan uses Macron's comments to cater to right wingers, Macron has been banking on this attack to cater to right wingers in France.
    There is no evidence that Macron (a neoliberal) "wanted" French citizens/residents to be murdered and decapitated by (presumably) an Islamist terrorist or that such attacks are useful to him electorally.

  8. #108

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Whataboutism at its best, as usual.
    If testing people's standards is whataboutism, sure, it is whataboutism. I see no problem in that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    There is no evidence that Macron (a neoliberal) "wanted" French citizens/residents to be murdered and decapitated by (presumably) an Islamist terrorist or that such attacks are useful to him electorally.
    A neoliberal that have been catering more and more to the right in his country. The latest attack was perfect for him and he used it at every opportunity to make a public appearance.
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  9. #109
    Cope's Avatar 777777777777777
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    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    A neoliberal that have been catering more and more to the right in his country. The latest attack was perfect for him and he used it at every opportunity to make a public appearance.
    This is disinformation. There is no evidence that Macron is privately pleased by these terror attacks or that he is treating them opportunistically.
    Last edited by Cope; October 29, 2020 at 07:31 AM.

  10. #110
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    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Macron is a secular liberal, it's not surprising that religiously motivated terrorism gives him the heeby jeebies. Do you feel what Macron is saying should be replicated towards all religious organisations equally? Why?
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  11. #111

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    This is disinformation. There is no evidence that Macron is privately pleased by these terror attacks or that he is treating them opportunistically.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Macron is a secular liberal, it's not surprising that religiously motivated terrorism gives him the heeby jeebies. Do you feel what Macron is saying should be replicated towards all religious organisations equally? Why?
    Macron started as a leftist. Since he took office he has been heavily criticized for shifting to the right. Macron's double standards that I've already pointed is evidence to his opportunistic approach to this incident.
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  12. #112
    Gandalfus's Avatar le Roi de fer
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    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Care to point out Macron's comments on the series of pedophilia cases that were discovered in the previous years? What measures did he propose against Catholic Christians? What kind of harsh speeches he gave against Catholic Christians that their priests can not molest French children? There are estimated to be over 3000 cases of sexual abuse by Catholic priests in France since 1950 after all.
    Well for one that was actually uncovered by a government led committee, so it is not exactly as if they had any interest in covering it up. I’ve not seen any widespread support of Pedophilia from France’s Catholic population either, no measure to #BoycottFrance for example. I don’t believe this is really relevant to the discussion. How does pedophilia in the Catholic Church reflect at all on Macron?

  13. #113

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/29/former-malaysian-pm-says-muslims-have-right-to-kill-millions-of-french-people-13501103/

    ‘Muslims have a right to be angry and to kill millions of French people for the massacres of the past.’

    ex-pm of malaysia, what an amazing statement

    so hindu in india also have the right to kill millions of muslim, since they were invaded by muslim in the past?
    Last edited by alhoon; October 29, 2020 at 11:17 AM. Reason: off topic part removed

  14. #114

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfus View Post
    Well for one that was actually uncovered by a government led committee, so it is not exactly as if they had any interest in covering it up. I’ve not seen any widespread support of Pedophilia from France’s Catholic population either, no measure to #BoycottFrance for example. I don’t believe this is really relevant to the discussion. How does pedophilia in the Catholic Church reflect at all on Macron?
    Yes, a government led committee that took careful steps to make it a judicial process against individuals instead of turning it against the entirety of Catholics in France with Macron practically being silent on the issue. Though some of the priests accused of sexual molestation of minors were allowed to leave France. I could not see a single comment from Macron. His name doesn't even appear in the articles covering the issue. There is no widespread support for violence against those speaking negatively of Islam or Muhammad in France among Muslims either. In fact, vast majority of Muslims condemned the Charlie Hebdo attacks as it was pointed out before. Since Macron didn't turn it into a crusade against Catholics, there is no calls for Boycott indeed. The kind of enmity Macron created against Muslims was not present when thousands of French boys were molested by Catholic priests. If the idea there was the importance of rule of law and the French way of life, one would expect Macron to have the same kind of stance against Catholics as he is having with Muslims. It's quite the litmus test.
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  15. #115

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfus View Post
    I find Turkey’s posturing in light of this situation hilarious with their call to #BoycottFrance over its treatment of Muslims. I don’t recall similar disdain being shown to the CCP and their ‘re-education’ camps in Xinjiang. Erdogan’s comparison of the French Government to the Nazis is equally laughable considering the Turkish government repeatedly refuses to recognise a certain event involving the Armenians.

    I do not think Macron’s criticism of Islam as being ‘in crisis‘ is racist in the slightest, and is a massive stretching of the definition. Whether it is accurate is another question. However, France is a heavily secularised nation in which only the Republic is held sacred, and given the ambivalence towards the principles of free speech shown in the wake of Charlie Hebdo and this incident I am not at all surprised changes have been made in France to try and secularise Islam in the country.
    This has been the standard MO of the Turkish government for decades: take everything you're doing (racism, colonization, genocide, curtailing free speech, corruption, warmongering, religious persecution, etc.) and accuse other nations of these exact crimes. It's basically fully conscious projection.


    Quote Originally Posted by ikyu828 View Post
    https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/29/former-malaysian-pm-says-muslims-have-right-to-kill-millions-of-french-people-13501103/

    ‘Muslims have a right to be angry and to kill millions of French people for the massacres of the past.’

    ex-pm of malaysia, what an amazing statement

    so hindu in india also have the right to kill millions of muslim, since they were invaded by muslim in the past?
    "I'm doing it for Islam" [or insert other ideology here] is always a great excuse for people who want to commit genocide because they hate a given ethnicity (like the French) for daring to exist. Applies to "domestic" terrorists just as much as Malaysian PMs. That said, I very much hope that there will be consequences for this ex-official. The least the EU could do is declare him persona non grata.

  16. #116
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Originally Posted by Ludicus Islam isn't a religion that is in crisis over all the world. A very radical statement. Is Islamophobia replacing antisemitism? What Macron said is a bizarre attempt to take the French far-right electoral ground.

    It isn't really that radical,
    No? I'm not surprised, I still remember when you said, a couple of years ago, that all Muslims are potential terrorists.(sic)

    ------
    I'm not surprised,Anger towards Emmanuel Macron grows in Muslim world ...

    CharlieHebdo risked further inflaming tensions with Turkey by placing acartoon mocking president Recep Tayyip Erdoğan on the front page of its edition published online on Tuesday night.
    It was fuelled by a speech Macron gave earlier this month...
    The cartoon showed Erdogan sitting in a white T-shirt and underpants, holding a canned drink along with a woman along with a woman wearing an Islamic hijab, and lifting the woman's burqa to see her naked body.

    As I said before,Macron bizarre address seems an attempt to appeal to right-wing voters ahead of the 2022 election, Macron's clash with Islam sends jolt through France's long ...

    Domestically,he faces the first round of the French presidential elections inApril 2022, and his challenge will come from the security-mindedright, either the centre-right Les Républicains or the far-rightMarine Le Pen, with whom he is neck and neck in the polls. His netdisapproval rating as president is -24%.
    ---
    Let's talk about political cartoons. We cannot not have two weights and two measures when it comes to political cartoons.
    I still remember the day when The NewYork Times announced it would no longer publish political cartoons. The newspaper issued an apology after publishing a drawing by a Portuguese cartoonist of Trump and Netanyahu, and announced that it would no longer publish political cartoons.
    Last edited by Ludicus; October 29, 2020 at 03:04 PM.
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  17. #117

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Imagine comparing stabbings and insults, under the Eiffel Tower. To beheading because you are but hurt.

    Macron started as a leftist. Since he took office he has been heavily criticized for shifting to the right. Macron's double standards that I've already pointed is evidence to his opportunistic approach to this incident.
    He didn't started as a leftist. He always been on the right on the economy. He is a social liberal. A classical liberal, with some progressive ideas, that is the basis of the party he founded.

    On the economy he always been on the right liberal spectrum. He hasn't shifted anything in this, some radical people would call him neoliberal i recon.

    And on social issues, he is pretty progressive. No wonder Muslims and far right in France are at odds with him.

    Let me remind you it is progressive to defend freedom of expression.

    This includes caricatures, lampooning, and satire. If you are uncomfortable with this things, then you are not as progressive as you might think.


    As I said before,Macron bizarre address seems an attempt to appeal to right-wing voters ahead of the 2022 election,
    Bizarre? People are being beheaded on the streets... It is an appeal to the right wing to defend secularism, and refusing to renounce the caricatures?

    You cant use Islamophobia as a mantle of protection against any legit criticism of Islam forever. In the end there is nothing Macron could say to entice Islamophobia more, but the actions of Muslim terrorists. To call Macron mentally ill, because he refuses to renounce some caricatures, as Erdogan did ( and what a figure to be listening to..), speaks volumes at what is at stake here. Western values and principles are under threat.

    If Standing by the values of your society, as it was founded ( liberté egalité fraternité) is bizarre and right wing pandering, then perhaps, the left should rethink its place in western society.

    Let's talk about political cartoons. We cannot not have two weights and two measures when it comes to political cartoons.
    I still remember the day when The NewYork Times announced it would no longer publish political cartoons. The newspaper issued an apology after publishing a drawing by a Portuguese cartoonist of Trump and Netanyahu, and announced that it would no longer publish political cartoons.
    Wrongly so.

    Imagine a free society without the ability to lampoon, shame on the NewYork times. But then again, the times, hasn't been the times in quite sometime.

    The least the EU could do is declare him persona non grata.
    That would be the least. But EU is weak as foreign policy goes.
    Last edited by Knight of Heaven; October 29, 2020 at 03:49 PM.

  18. #118

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Men and women being killed in churches, car bombs, knife attacks. Enough is enough! Macron and the EU must answer why there are Muslim attacks in Europe, not share the condolences and shed a few tears!

    The secular-humanist governments of Europe must be held responsible for their irresponsible antagonization of a community known to cause terrorist attacks, and their continued importation of them.

  19. #119

    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    the funny thing is that there are muslim who think france deserve this due to blasphemy but they also did the same thing

    i'm indonesian, so this kind of stuff happen over n over again, there is a blasphemy law, but it only apply if the one attacked or offended is islam
    https://www.cnnindonesia.com/nasiona...ntuk-umat-isla
    this guy is one of indonesian famous imam, he basically said there is a djinn (i'm not sure what is the best english word for this) inside of a cross
    n nothing happened to him

    the islamic world keep complaining about islamphobia, but keep ignoring kapirphobia
    you can even go to jail in here if u publicly admit if u have no religion

  20. #120
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Religion of Peace Strikes Again: Teacher beheaded in France after showing Mohammed cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    Bizarre? People are being beheaded on the streets...
    As I said before, I completely agree with Macron's proposals, namely the stricter oversight of schooling and control over foreign funding of mosques, fighting radical Islamic separatism inside France. Or any other kind of political religious separatism. Absolutely intorelable.For my part, don't want multiple religious states inside my country.
    My point is, Macron shouldn't have said that Islam is a religion that is in crisis over all the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    Western values and principles are under threat.
    They were also under threat during the Christchurch mosque attacks, when a white supremacist murdered 51 people. The idea of the "west" emerged during the age of imperialism, right? If tolerance is a constitutive element of the so-called western culture (is it?), if we really care about notions of tolerance and freedom, we/Macron should not launch frontal attacks on Islam. The age of Charles Martel is long gone. As someone put it, ironnically, "if western culture were real, we wouldn't spend so much time talking it up"
    Tell me, is this what western culture is about?

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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

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