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Thread: Gal Gadot to play Cleopatra

  1. #21

    Default Re: Gal Gadot to play Cleopatra

    The funniest part is that Cleopatra wasn't even Egyptian, she was 100% Ptolemaic Greek, not to mention that Egyptians themselves were not sub-Saharan African, the closest we have to their modern descendants are Coptic Christians in Egypt, who are brown and aren't black. I guess it just goes to show that despite calling itself "educated" Woke Left is ignorant of basic concepts in history and science.

  2. #22
    Settra's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: Gal Gadot to play Cleopatra

    Cast Leslie Jones or go home is all I'm saying.
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  3. #23
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar I am your sovereign now
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    Default Re: Gal Gadot to play Cleopatra

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    The funniest part is that Cleopatra wasn't even Egyptian, she was 100% Ptolemaic Greek, not to mention that Egyptians themselves were not sub-Saharan African, the closest we have to their modern descendants are Coptic Christians in Egypt, who are brown and aren't black. I guess it just goes to show that despite calling itself "educated" Woke Left is ignorant of basic concepts in history and science.
    True to an extent but not entirely, since I'm a leftist who pointed these things out, Copts are indeed brown North African descendants of Egyptians but Nubians of ancient Sudan also lived among and intermarried with Egyptians so at least a minority of blacks existed in ancient Egypt, and Cleopatra VII Philopator was mostly Macedonian Greek but did have a small amount of Sogdian Iranian ancestral heritage via the Seleucid princess Cleopatra I Syra who married Ptolemy V Epiphanes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    Cast Leslie Jones or go home is all I'm saying.
    Nice. Putting skin tone aside entirely, if Gadot is wooden and stale as an actress, then Jones is obviously too loud, boisterous, bubbly and obnoxious to play a shrewd, calculating, witty, charming and devious Hellenistic monarch who was sharp enough to learn seven different languages besides her own native Koine Greek.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Gal Gadot to play Cleopatra

    The real Cleopatra must have looked very different from a plain "beauty" like Gadot - see her coins:
    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/C..._Cleopatra_VII

    I liked this casting instead, at least the actress has a prominent nose (she's half Lebanese, half French):


  5. #25

    Default Re: Gal Gadot to play Cleopatra

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    The casting could have been way worse. I mean at least Cleopatra isn't sub-saharan.
    Why would that be much worse?


    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    Like I said, I don't plan to watch this, not even out of curiosity, so it would have been rather ridiculous to care
    So... why do you care then?
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  6. #26
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Gal Gadot to play Cleopatra

    Lol. What took you so long?
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
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  7. #27

    Default Re: Gal Gadot to play Cleopatra

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    Besides, it is the age of CGI, there's no way the new movie will look as good as the Taylor Cleopatra.
    I don't know, if this footage I saw posted on Facebook is legit, it looks fairly decent. CGI seems minimal.

    Obligatory TOS violating language warning, also some Hebrew if that offends anyone:

    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  8. #28
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Gal Gadot to play Cleopatra

    Ptolemaic Egypt had a considerable jewish minority, and even had the old testament translated to greek, so the jewish people could keep in touch with their religion.
    That said, it was clearly a segregated society, where greeks were #1, jews iirc were something like they were in late AH-era Prague, and the local egyptians were third-rate citizens.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
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  9. #29
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Gal Gadot to play Cleopatra

    Hebrew offends somebody?
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  10. #30
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Gal Gadot to play Cleopatra

    If Baldwin, the fat Batman, plays Auletes this movie could be really funny.^^
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  11. #31

    Default Re: Gal Gadot to play Cleopatra

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    Ptolemaic Egypt had a considerable jewish minority, and even had the old testament translated to greek, so the jewish people could keep in touch with their religion.
    Which is interesting for the fact that it shows they were speaking Greek as their first language.

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Hebrew offends somebody?
    That was a joke for this audience, but sure. I went into a hummus place next to UW with a girl who was wearing a small pendent that had some Hebrew on it. Some of the other patrons lost their and the situation escalated. By the time the cops showed up they had to extricate us from a somewhat violent angry mob.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  12. #32
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Gal Gadot to play Cleopatra

    That was a joke for this audience, but sure. I went into a hummus place next to UW with a girl who was wearing a small pendent that had some Hebrew on it. Some of the other patrons lost their and the situation escalated. By the time the cops showed up they had to extricate us from a somewhat violent angry mob.
    Really. Than the capacity of people to be just dicks (or worse in a group) never ceases to depress me.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  13. #33
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar I am your sovereign now
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    Default Re: Gal Gadot to play Cleopatra

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    Ptolemaic Egypt had a considerable jewish minority, and even had the old testament translated to greek, so the jewish people could keep in touch with their religion.
    That said, it was clearly a segregated society, where greeks were #1, jews iirc were something like they were in late AH-era Prague, and the local egyptians were third-rate citizens.
    Things were a bit more complicated than that, since Ptolemaic Egypt (plus Hellenistic Cyprus and on occasion territories in the Levant) was actually a patchwork of separate political states with their own local laws, constitutions, and boule democratic assemblies loosely united under one sovereign and near absolute monarch. The polis of Alexandria was something like the Vatican City in Italy or Monaco in southern France, a micro-state with people there possessing their own unique citizenship. A Greek who stepped foot out of Alexandria into some other part of Egypt was legally a foreigner in another country subject to different laws, even in the handful of other Greek city-states there like Pelousion and Ptolemais-Hermiou.

    In Alexandria, while everyone could mingle together in the public agora, there were nevertheless strict marriage laws forbidding Greeks to marry Egyptians there and the populace lived in ethnically segregated neighborhoods designated for Greeks, Jews, European colonists like Galatian Celts and Thracians, native Egyptians and Nubians, etc. However, the moment a Greek stepped foot out of Alexandria and moved somewhere else he could legally marry an Egyptian woman if he so desired. However, even in Alexandria a wealthy Egyptian from the mercantile class or priestly castes could also legally become "Greek" by abandoning their original culture, renouncing their previous beliefs and worshiping Greek deities plus the hybrid Greco-Egyptian ones like Serapis.

    See Stanley M. Burstein's Reign of Cleopatra (2004) for more on this and a wealth of information on laws regarding ethnicity in Ptolemaic Egypt.

  14. #34
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Gal Gadot to play Cleopatra

    I have reputation for Roma but no reply
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  15. #35
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar I am your sovereign now
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    Default Re: Gal Gadot to play Cleopatra

    Ah, so you have no gold, but you do have iron for me, then.

  16. #36
    Vladyvid's Avatar Wizard of Turmish
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    Default Re: Gal Gadot to play Cleopatra

    People dont know that Cleopatra was Greek? Why is that? Did they NOT go to school? I was a little kid when i learned it, its not like its some secret or anything. Funny...

  17. #37
    HannibalExMachina's Avatar Just a sausage
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    Default Re: Gal Gadot to play Cleopatra

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    Why are black nationalists so obsessed with Cleopatra? I would think that her two assassinated, little brothers would have been more likeable and relatable than Rome's puppet. Ptolemy XIII died as the symbol of national resistance against foreign rule, didn't he? Although the crocodile must have been indigenuous and not of Nubian origins. Anyway, when Cleopatra II and Cleopatra III dominated Egyptian politics, Cleopatra VII didn't exist even as a concept. Black nationalism seems a bit too much attached to Orientalist, West-inspired and chauvinistic prejudices...
    mostly about reclaiming "african" history. it should be seen more as a backlash to orientalism and other white supremecist ideas, such as trying to "whitewash" ancient civiisations, from the caucasian origin theory of the homo sapiens, to "we couldnt build pyramids, so those guys couldnt, it was aliens!". in media, blackface, yellowface etc.

    while these are all legitimate issues, black nationalism, while not simply an african version of white nationalism, is still a fraught ideology, and not always too concerned with science.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Gal Gadot to play Cleopatra

    Even the little Iranian heritage Cleopatra got, i guess it is very likely that you couldn't notice that in her skin colour. Did you guys new that Pushkins great-grandfather was an african slave and you couldn't have been able to tell if you looked at Pushkin? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abram_Petrovich_Gannibal

    Or Boris Johnsons great-grandfather was a Osman-pasha? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Kemal by the look of Boris Johnsons with his extremly fair hair wouldn't expect that.

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  19. #39
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: Gal Gadot to play Cleopatra

    This movie is going to suck. Any Mediterranean looking person could play Cleopatra and the controversy is stupid. But how do you even make a Cleopatra movie? Cleopatra was just a footnote in the life of Julius Caesar... the real story is Cleopatra AND Mark Antony, which again how do you focus on both? There won't be cool battles like Mutina, maybe not even Philippi, certainly not the Parthian War, if we are lucky we will get Actium.

    So basically it is going to be all the exact same stuff from the Liz Taylor movie but without the stellar cast. Which being honest, the original movie was carried by Rex Harris, no one liked it and it would have flopped if not for the advertising. Whoever they cast as Antony will not be as good as Richard Burton or James Purefoy. Gal Gadot is probably not good enough to play Cleopatra.

    One more complaint but the aesthetics in these movies is way too Egyptian rather than Hellenistic. A trend which was started by the Liz Taylor movie, which was done entirely to cater to the women audience, which is actually what saved that movie. HBO Rome was beyond absurd in this regard.

    TLDR this is going to be another unimaginative dog crap of a film, like "The King", which uses the appeal to history to rip off from source material. Not like it is new or anything, they've been doing it for a hundred years (literally because the original Cleopatra came out in the 1920's and the Liz Taylor thing was a remake). I mean Shakespeare did it, and so he is the original source material, and he was getting his information from Plutarch who is also pretty questionable.
    Last edited by Lord Oda Nobunaga; November 14, 2020 at 01:50 PM.

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  20. #40
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: Gal Gadot to play Cleopatra

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus Aemilius Lepidus View Post
    Even the little Iranian heritage Cleopatra got, i guess it is very likely that you couldn't notice that in her skin colour. Did you guys new that Pushkins great-grandfather was an african slave and you couldn't have been able to tell if you looked at Pushkin? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abram_Petrovich_Gannibal

    Or Boris Johnsons great-grandfather was a Osman-pasha? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Kemal by the look of Boris Johnsons with his extremly fair hair wouldn't expect that.
    A while ago I posted a family tree where I broke down the ethnicity of all of Cleopatra's ancestors as far back as the time of Philip. They were from Thessaly, various parts of Macedonia, and one ancestor was Sogdian. The thing with Sogdians is that they are by far the palest of the Iranic people and you can still see them today in places like Tajikistan. Anyway 300 years later by the time of Cleopatra, the Sogdian ancestry is practically irrelevant.

    As I said in that thread... it would not be surprising if Cleopatra was actually an extremely pale skinned red haired woman. Which was not only fairly common in those parts of the Iranic steppe, but also in the parts of Macedonia where her ancestors came from.


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    Last edited by Lord Oda Nobunaga; November 14, 2020 at 02:05 PM.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

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