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Thread: CA/SEGA uses material without its creator consent!

  1. #1
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default CA/SEGA uses material without its creator consent!

    According to mr Katsikes of the Hellenic.Armors.com CA/SEGA copied some of his published photos of his Bronze age armors to create its own skins. CA/SEGA never contacted mr Katsikes . We will see what legal rights will claim mr Katsikes.
    I post it here for those that insisted that CA/SEGA never needs to "STEAL" any material for making its own creations.
    Published photos DOES NOT MEAN that the original creator abolishes his rights over his creations. https://www.facebook.com/HellenicArmors/
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  2. #2
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: CA/SEGA uses material without its creator consent!

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    According to mr Katsikes of the Hellenic.Armors.com CA/SEGA copied some of his published photos of his Bronze age armors to create its own skins. CA/SEGA never contacted mr Katsikes . We will see what legal rights will claim mr Katsikes.
    I post it here for those that insisted that CA/SEGA never needs to "STEAL" any material for making its own creations.
    Published photos DOES NOT MEAN that the original creator abolishes his rights over his creations. https://www.facebook.com/HellenicArmors/
    A. Mr Katsikompixtis got his inspiration and info from some sources. I believe CA simply went to those sources. Museums, Iliad, the movie Troy etc. Frankly, I think CA most probably doesn't even know that this person exists or that he had made similar designs with CA.

    B. Have you LOOKED at those armors that this guy claims are similar to Hector's armor? Tell me how that armor in Troy is similar to this in anything but the color. Frankly, the game's armor is ... gamey. The examples in that person's account are realistic.
    He is a good designer and knows his stuff. He just likes to pretend he's more important than he is.
    The armor that CA "stole" from that delusional guy doesn't even look similar.

    I have no idea why you keep insisting that CA would have any reason to 'steal' pics when all they have to do is go to the sources. You think it would be hard for CA to pay 10K$ to that enthusiast and get him as consultant? The reason they didn't, is because they got someone else, probably as qualified, to do the legwork for them and give them an armor design that looked nice and authentic. Keyword here: looked authentic.
    The design they ended up with doesn't look like any of the armor designs from Mr Katsikokleftis.
    Last edited by alhoon; June 12, 2021 at 06:24 AM.
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    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: CA/SEGA uses material without its creator consent!

    These are not my caims but his. And he is willing to follow the legal way. The tiny changes on a prototype is a common trick to avoid pay for legal rights the original creators but as he mentioned those changes can not stand to a court. Also the excuse that photos are widely available to internet does not errase the legal rights of the original creators. I asked because inorder to TGC mod be 100% legal i have writen permisions by:

    • Mr Katsikes Hellenic Armors
    • Mr Shumate illustrator
    • Mr G.Rava illustrator
    • Mr D'Ammato author.
    • Mr Skourtelis illustrator

    I will keep ypu posted about his actions.
    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    B. Have you LOOKED at those armors that this guy claims are similar to Hector's armor? Tell me how that armor in Troy is similar to this in anything but the color. Frankly, the game's armor is ... gamey. The examples in that person's account are realistic.
    He is a good designer and knows his stuff. He just likes to pretend he's more important than he is.
    EDIT: Ahoon you as greek i would expect that yo0u could READ Greek.
    The example in your post is a medievar Roman 10th century cataphract armor and not about Troy. If you were a bit more serius you would provide those that read ypur posts these armors instead.
    I feel disapointed from you about trying to "sell" fake photo as source of your argument.
    Last edited by AnthoniusII; June 12, 2021 at 07:32 AM.
    For future info about TGC mod visit us in Total War.prg TGC page or in our page in MODDB .
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  4. #4
    Gigantus's Avatar I don't get worked up over people anymore: they get a post-it with 'ridiculous' on their forehead and that's it.
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    Default Re: CA/SEGA uses material without its creator consent!

    Unless the item has been copied in detail and is itself based on fantasy (artist's interpretation) there isn't really a valid claim. I would think it's more the case with that armor shop that seems to even use his screenshots\photos for their wares.

    It is to your credit that you had the courtesy to request permissions where you thought it would be applicable, but in this type of case it's not applicable. To exaggerate a bit: Just because someone made a model of the original acropolis and published it doesn't mean you have to ask him for permission if you wish to recreate the acropolis in your mod. Giving credit 'inspired by..' however is always a nice touch.
    Last edited by Gigantus; June 12, 2021 at 08:39 AM.




  5. #5

    Default Re: CA/SEGA uses material without its creator consent!

    This gentleman can sue if he feels so strongly about it, but I doubt he has much of a case. At any rate you need to stop this, all you're doing is trying to stir up trouble.
    FREE THE NIPPLE!!!

  6. #6
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: CA/SEGA uses material without its creator consent!

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    These are not my caims but his. And he is willing to follow the legal way. The tiny changes on a prototype is a common trick to avoid pay for legal rights the original creators but as he mentioned those changes can not stand to a court. Also the excuse that photos are widely available to internet does not errase the legal rights of the original creators. I asked because inorder to TGC mod be 100% legal i have writen permisions by:

    • Mr Katsikes Hellenic Armors
    • Mr Shumate illustrator
    • Mr G.Rava illustrator
    • Mr D'Ammato author.
    • Mr Skourtelis illustrator

    I will keep ypu posted about his actions.

    EDIT: Ahoon you as greek i would expect that yo0u could READ Greek.
    The example in your post is a medievar Roman 10th century cataphract armor and not about Troy. If you were a bit more serius you would provide those that read ypur posts these armors instead.
    I feel disapointed from you about trying to "sell" fake photo as source of your argument.
    Yeah, OK, got the wrong link. How are THOSE in your link similar to the one in the game? Aside of the bronze color. I honestly don't think they are similar.


    And do you honestly expect me to be "more serious" about totally paranoid rumblings? Do you realize that CA can sue this guy for defamation... if they cared (and I honestly think they would not, since trials = money).

    For your mod you obviously, and well done, went with the route of "I will use well researched material!" and of course "I will credit those that made it."
    And you did well and that is promising for your mod.

    CA probably asked their historians to turn up a sketch. Then their artists made concept art from that sketch the historians made. And then their computer programmers made models from that concept art.
    I honestly do not understand why you think otherwise, or why you think that CA would try to "steal" art.
    Last edited by alhoon; June 12, 2021 at 01:20 PM.
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    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: CA/SEGA uses material without its creator consent!

    The answer is simple. Its is NOT my opinion but MR Katsikes one. As the original creator he can recognise the simularities and the differences . ITS HIS OPINION. NOT MINE.
    Why don't you ask him in his FB page to answer all youe questions?
    For future info about TGC mod visit us in Total War.prg TGC page or in our page in MODDB .
    Do not expect any detailed preview in TWC anymore.
    Only links (if TWC will allow us to post them because no one knows for sure).

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    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: CA/SEGA uses material without its creator consent!

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    The answer is simple. Its is NOT my opinion but MR Katsikes one. As the original creator he can recognise the simularities and the differences . ITS HIS OPINION. NOT MINE.
    Yes, but YOU posted it here, not Mr Katsikes. As such, I will keep asking you: Why do you post that here? Do you honestly think that mr Katsikes is right?

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    Why don't you ask him in his FB page to answer all youe questions?
    Because I think the man's inflated ego speaks for itself. If he can honestly consider it possible that a giant like CA would secretly steal his illustrations instead of simply asking him for them, then he has issues.
    Furthermore, I am sure that part of this is ... because he seeks attention. If he moves on and actually sues CA (good luck finding a legal path to that as Gig said above), even if he makes minor news, he gets a lot of exposure and so does CA.

    People like me, Slayt and Gigantus, would not be aware of that guy if it was not for his PR stunt that CA covertly but unsubtly copied his work.
    And I wouldn't have looked at the pics he made that are nice and honestly seem quite more realistic than Achiles' armor in the game. All in all: It's beneficial for him to say "CA stole my work." even if it is a product of his imagination.

    Thus, I see no reason to start discussing with yet another scholar with inflated ego, especially using my FB account which has my real name.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    _______________________________________________________
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    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: CA/SEGA uses material without its creator consent!

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    The answer is simple. Its is NOT my opinion but MR Katsikes one. As the original creator he can recognise the simularities and the differences . ITS HIS OPINION. NOT MINE.
    Yes, but YOU posted it here, not Mr Katsikes. As such, I will keep asking you: Why do you post that here? Do you honestly think that mr Katsikes is right?

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    Why don't you ask him in his FB page to answer all youe questions?
    Because I think the man's inflated ego speaks for itself. If he can honestly consider it possible that a giant like CA would secretly steal his illustrations instead of simply asking him for them, then he has issues.
    Furthermore, I am sure that part of this is ... because he seeks attention. If he moves on and actually sues CA (good luck finding a legal path to that as Gig said above), even if he makes minor news, he gets a lot of exposure and so does CA.

    People like me, Slayt and Gigantus, would not be aware of that guy if it was not for his PR stunt that CA covertly but unsubtly copied his work.
    And I wouldn't have looked at the pics he made that are nice and honestly seem quite more realistic than Achiles' armor in the game. All in all: It's beneficial for him to say "CA stole my work." even if it is a product of his imagination.

    Thus, I see no reason to start discussing with yet another scholar with inflated ego, especially using my FB account which has my real name.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    _______________________________________________________
    Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.

    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  10. #10
    Gigantus's Avatar I don't get worked up over people anymore: they get a post-it with 'ridiculous' on their forehead and that's it.
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    Default Re: CA/SEGA uses material without its creator consent!

    Under the same notion of Mr Katsikes I should have made a noise on my FB page when CA released Three Kingdoms - after all I published my mod long before they even announced the new game version.

    Please do not give claims a platform if you cannot support\defend them yourself. That's how even the weirdest conspiracies get traction (I read it on the internet).
    Last edited by Gigantus; June 12, 2021 at 08:47 PM.




  11. #11
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: CA/SEGA uses material without its creator consent!

    Wait, that 3K mod in M2TW was yours?
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    _______________________________________________________
    Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.

    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  12. #12
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: CA/SEGA uses material without its creator consent!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus View Post
    Under the same notion of Mr Katsikes I should have made a noise on my FB page when CA released Three Kingdoms - after all I published my mod long before they even announced the new game version.

    Please do not give claims a platform if you cannot support\defend them yourself. That's how even the weirdest conspiracies get traction (I read it on the internet).

    Strange but few months after Rime II was released TOTAL WAR in its FB page published a number of photos by a Chinese mod showing Chinese soldiers like those in Three Kingdoms. CA/SEGA pointed out that those modders made a good job but when i asked if those modders will have access to map changes inorder to create an overhaul mod they simply baned me inorder not to do any more comments. How bizzare...a bunch of modders (chinese) pusblish a number of Chinese rosters but they can not make unique map. Years later Three Kingdoms apear. Coincidence...
    Last edited by AnthoniusII; June 13, 2021 at 06:29 AM.
    For future info about TGC mod visit us in Total War.prg TGC page or in our page in MODDB .
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  13. #13
    Gigantus's Avatar I don't get worked up over people anymore: they get a post-it with 'ridiculous' on their forehead and that's it.
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    Default Re: CA/SEGA uses material without its creator consent!

    Being able to edit the map has been a sore point with CA\SEGA since Empire - guess they didn't want everyone to pile on with their grievance about that after your question. Your question itself was a bit weird, given the issue with map editing in the first place. Why would the company give tools to random Chinese modders that they haven't given to anyone else? After all they simply made some battle models.




  14. #14
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: CA/SEGA uses material without its creator consent!

    just as a note... campaign map editing (from scratch too) will be possible for any rome2 > troy game soon, a year or so, hopefully.

  15. #15
    Gigantus's Avatar I don't get worked up over people anymore: they get a post-it with 'ridiculous' on their forehead and that's it.
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    Default Re: CA/SEGA uses material without its creator consent!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Armitage View Post
    just as a note... campaign map editing (from scratch too) will be possible for any rome2 > troy game soon, a year or so, hopefully.
    source?




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    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: CA/SEGA uses material without its creator consent!

    Jox (and a couple of other guys) are doing a map tool
    AI pathfinding is ok too
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob_Ch5HTVw4&t=95s

  17. #17
    Gigantus's Avatar I don't get worked up over people anymore: they get a post-it with 'ridiculous' on their forehead and that's it.
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    Default Re: CA/SEGA uses material without its creator consent!

    Good news indeed




  18. #18
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: CA/SEGA uses material without its creator consent!

    here's a new video about campaign map
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlffIINsWC0

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