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Thread: Let's talk about demons

  1. #21
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Let's talk about demons

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Or maybe its the about the same reaction I have when the LDS or Jehovah's witnesses show at my door with the same question - man I wish I was not polite and could shut the door on them.
    Or you could say with a few oktaves deeper voice: "I have waited FOR YOU all day long."

    Perfectly with a lumberjack axe in hands.
    But you can't turn back the time
    It always gonna wait on the line
    Some may wish never to be born
    Wasting the dawn

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  2. #22
    basics's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Let's talk about demons

    conon394,

    Why not tell them what basics says about the Gospel for that will frighten them away.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Let's talk about demons

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    Gromovnik,

    Then why did she respond to the preacher in that way? No doubt her sanity was impaired but why was she not screaming before he made the call? Another similar event happened to me when I was in hospital. Being a cigarette smoker I would make my way down to this covered enclosure where other smokers gathered. It was under the building in which mental health patients were treated, even housed. This particular day there was an elderly woman sitting there cursing and swearing like a trooper but in a murmering way. I turned to her and asked, " Have you heard of Jesus?" She turned to me and her volume increased as she got up and left that place quickly. Was it just me or was there something about the name Jesus that set her off? I never saw her again.
    Yeah, this one is pretty self-explanatory. She was just pissed about you preaching to her when she had bigger problems on her mind.
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  4. #24
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Let's talk about demons

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    conon394,

    Why not tell them what basics says about the Gospel for that will frighten them away.
    Community is too tight thay know I don't go to those kind of congregations in my small town (there are few). But I think I am off the list the fact my kids go to Catholic school (*) and it is 35 miles away convinced them I am not really a lapsed Polish Catholic after all so a lost cause.

    * Simple fact is the local schools are poorly funded and run badly and LDS majority is biased (and as a believer in public schools I pored money and time into them and ended up appalled at the of ineptitude and disinterest from the community). The only racially and ethnically diverse school that is run well and rewards merit forced me to come full circle back to the Catholic school. You likely have no love the Catholic church basics but you will find it amusing that I as an agnostic ended up with kids raised as Christians and spend my summers doing the requite service work for the school. I guess once a Polish Catholic always a Catholic. You can say the water sprinkle is nothing but it does seem to have trapped me. Perhaps god is laughing somewhere or at least the Pope.

    It also possible however that fact the time the LDS came to the door my youngest daughter at 10 answered it. While I was in basement office. So all I saw was the part where she exclaimed you are heretics and slammed the door shut. Got to admit I almost fell over laughing.
    Last edited by conon394; October 24, 2020 at 12:07 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  5. #25
    basics's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Let's talk about demons

    Another incident was when on our honeymoon we stopped off on our journey to London at an hotel in if memory serves me correct Northampton. It was late so we booked in for the night not knowing that a white witch group were holding meetings there. In the morning I went to the reception to pay the bill but couldn't get near the receptionist for this woman in a long white robe on the receptionist's phone. It was then that someone in that crowded area made me aware that we were in the presence of white witches and at that moment I blurted out, " Jesus." Her phone went dead and she started getting very angry indeed. I squeezed past her and paid our bill so that we got out of that place as quickly as our legs could carry us.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Let's talk about demons

    There's (suposedly alleged) incidents of possession since paleolithic via self (or from outside) induced consciousness states.
    Better example is Shamanism, they would consume substances (in south america, peyote), to hallucinate and would follow other methods to enter in a trance/altered state of consciousness where they would speak with something.
    If they went to such efforts obviously they believed in spirits, and in good and evil, which brings the conclusion.
    Shamanism is basically world-wide phenomena, from Africa to Native Americans to Steppes to Orient to early Europeans you had such phase on all of them.

    Regardless of what ends up as true, Shamanism phase being a Universal phenomena makes it harder to explain "why it's wrong worldwide" than to accept it.
    Last edited by fkizz; October 25, 2020 at 03:24 PM.
    It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

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  7. #27
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Let's talk about demons

    I squeezed past her and paid our bill so that we got out of that place as quickly as our legs could carry us.
    Why? Seems like your faith should protect you from what ever you seemed to fear.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  8. #28
    basics's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Let's talk about demons

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Why? Seems like your faith should protect you from what ever you seemed to fear.
    conon394,

    Good question deserving an honest answer. Since it is written in both Psalms and Peter to turn away from evil, that's what we did. So, was I scared? No, but I was a bit apprehensive about being caught up in that situation. I had seen evidence of witchcraft before but never surrounded by them so this was a new experience that we avoided as best we could. I suppose I could say that it was our first encounter with evil as a married couple yet it wouldn't be the last. Thankfully Jesus was on our side.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Let's talk about demons

    Well, that is certainly an interesting way to spend one's honeymoon.
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  10. #30
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Let's talk about demons

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    conon394,

    Good question deserving an honest answer. Since it is written in both Psalms and Peter to turn away from evil, that's what we did. So, was I scared? No, but I was a bit apprehensive about being caught up in that situation. I had seen evidence of witchcraft before but never surrounded by them so this was a new experience that we avoided as best we could. I suppose I could say that it was our first encounter with evil as a married couple yet it wouldn't be the last. Thankfully Jesus was on our side.

    Interesting answer. Although it seems a jump to decide thay were evil. Do you have scale in mind? Why are witches evil? Do worry about visiting Japan a being surrounded by practitioners of Shinto?
    Last edited by conon394; October 26, 2020 at 09:50 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  11. #31
    basics's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Let's talk about demons

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Interesting answer. Although it seems a jump to decide thay were evil. Do you have scale in mind? Why are witches evil? Do worry about visiting Japan a being surrounded by practitioners of Shinto?
    conon394,

    When I first settled in the North and was not then saved I explored the locality becaise I had nothing else to do to pass my free time away. At the ruins of Kinloss Abbey I noticed blood marks on some of the stones, someone later telling me that certain people made blood sacrifices of animals there. Others told me it was people from the Findhorn Foundation just along the road who were into such things and later I was personally to experience inside the place a rather odd event. I was making a delivery to the place and as such I had to go into the building, up some stairs past a few people doing what they were doing when a horn like tone sounded and everyone stopped dead in exactly all sorts of positions. Imagine watching a film and it suddenly stopped showing people at all sorts of angles and that is what I was seeing. I was the only one that was moving until another sound came and everyone moved again. I kid you not, it was the strangest of things. Later we found out that when anyone joined the Foundation they had to hand over any monies they had giving it complete control of them.

  12. #32
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Let's talk about demons

    Later we found out that when anyone joined the Foundation they had to hand over any monies they had giving it complete control of them.
    A cult is a cult. Oddly you can find the same in the US there a more than a few christian churches that preach being reborn and claim some type version of being Baptist and have pretty much the same level of financial and general control over the congregation. But I would worry less about the odd animal sacrifice than when your "church' of any sort starts having you mail pay check to them direct, that is cult level activity. By itself do recall blood sacrifice of animals is part of the OT. Also do recall that say in classical greece sacrifice was a redistribution method. Sure the Athens killed say 100 (a ton more at the big festivals) cattle at some shindig to Athena. But all she got was the bones and a bit of fat. Every person at the festival got a equal share of the good parts and the rich paid for it all via what amounts a very proportional tax. Cant really see much evil in that.
    Last edited by conon394; October 27, 2020 at 09:52 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  13. #33
    basics's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Let's talk about demons

    conon394,

    You're right in saying that there are so-called churches where the attendees are deceived not just in America, all over and that is evil. It's all around us because it became part of our nature thanks to the fall of Adam and the only real protection from it is in God's word wherein lies the key to overcoming it. Being born again of the Spirit of God by the blood of Jesus Christ is that Way.

  14. #34
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Let's talk about demons

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    conon394,

    You're right in saying that there are so-called churches where the attendees are deceived not just in America, all over and that is evil. It's all around us because it became part of our nature thanks to the fall of Adam and the only real protection from it is in God's word wherein lies the key to overcoming it. Being born again of the Spirit of God by the blood of Jesus Christ is that Way.
    But many at least in America claim the same thing and yet exert that kind of control. But you dodged my question so is everyone who does not hold to your specific interpretation of Christian scripture and belief evil or just non Christians?
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  15. #35
    basics's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Let's talk about demons

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    But many at least in America claim the same thing and yet exert that kind of control. But you dodged my question so is everyone who does not hold to your specific interpretation of Christian scripture and belief evil or just non Christians?
    conon394,

    The answer is and always must be, " What do the Scriptures say?" Peter is quite adamant about that in that only those who have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, born again, will be able to interpret them properly. That Jesus Christ died for the sins of God's elect and rose again to eternal life is indisputable. He died for all those that God the Father gave Him to be His and none else. That is what the Scriptures tell and what the Reformers believed. To teach anything else is evil and it's a practice that has permeated throughout the church unfortunately. Salvation is in totality a work of God in His Three Persons wherein any recipient is but the receiver not the chooser or the taker. Therefore we have in the Scriptures Jesus telling the parables of the wheat and tares or the sheep and the goats. The tares and goats only think they are His but at the judgement He will say, " Depart from Me for I never knew you." They were never called of or by God so in effect they were deceived by a lie and that is evil.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Let's talk about demons

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    conon394,
    That Jesus Christ died for the sins of God's elect and rose again to eternal life is indisputable.
    Why is that indisputable?
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  17. #37
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Let's talk about demons

    The answer is and always must be, " What do the Scriptures say?" Peter is quite adamant
    Ahh so there is the rub you down to one person and one interpretation and refined one at given what is left of the NT. So than I am indeed evil in your view. Personally I find myself quite moral using Epicurus and some Stoicism for when the world goes sideways. Lack of data leaves me stuck at Agnostic but OK with that. Like Socrates I simply intrigued at how the dirt nap will play out or just miss like one big sleep.

    That is what the Scriptures tell
    Lots of scriptures out there as well and thay don't amount to the same story. Either in Christianity or Other people beliefs.

    Not sure how the Sheep and the goats works for you since it implies works and deeds. Why would a moral Greek Epicurean be excluded from the right side particularly since they missed the chance of meeting Jesus by say 4 centuries?
    Last edited by conon394; October 29, 2020 at 10:20 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Let's talk about demons

    Quote Originally Posted by Gromovnik View Post
    Why is that indisputable?
    Gromovnik,

    It's indisputable because it actually happened and was recorded by many as having happened.

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Let's talk about demons

    conon394,

    As long as you remain in your sin you are evil. There's no use saying, " but I am a good person," when it is written that there is none good, only God and that's why God in Jesus Christ came into the world so that Someone may be able to pay for our sin in His own blood. Yes, blood that was never tainted by sin, therefore the only blood that could satisfy the demands of the Law.

    What differing stories are there in Christianity?

    The sheep and goats as well as the tares and wheat are about those that God knows as His and those interlopers who are not His. It's nothing to do with works or deeds. Salvation is all about Jesus Christ being revealed to an unbeliever. Going all the way back to the fall of man men have known of the promised " seed " and certain ones experienced God revealing Him to them in that they were made righteous before God. Every religion that sprouted up knew of that and used it to create their own versions but God chose Israel to carry the truth. The Gospel began with that prophecy and it remains intact to this day by the fulfilling of it in Jesus Christ. So, when Paul visited your friends in Greece he remarked to them that they worshipped many gods but that they missed out on the real One which they named the unknown God.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Let's talk about demons

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    Gromovnik,

    It's indisputable because it actually happened and was recorded by many as having happened.
    Doubtful.
    Optio, Legio I Latina

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