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Thread: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

  1. #1141
    irontaino's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    How can anyone defend USA slavery via ... the Barbary pirates enslaving people? I don't get it.
    It's lazy whataboutism. That's the long and short of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    "What about the Barbary Pirates" must be the most disgusting form of whataboutism of all.
    People defending police brutality with "wHaT aBoUt BlAcK oN bLaCk CrImE?" is pretty bad as well, and much more common.
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  2. #1142

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    How can anyone defend USA slavery via ... the Barbary pirates enslaving people? I don't get it.
    The same way a six-year old defends doing something wrong. "They did it too! You're just picking on me!"

  3. #1143

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    To clarify: the article doesn't mention the Barbary pirates. For some reason, it is being imagined that the neo-Confederate interviewee used them as a defense.



  4. #1144
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    The same way a six-year old defends doing something wrong. "They did it too! You're just picking on me!"
    I still don't get it. "They" are the ... Barbary Pirates, a bygone for a century and a half group of loosely defined rogue states / warlord bases?
    The Barbary Pirates were not black people. They were North Africans, so... Dark-white. Mediterranean-colored. Would you call Gaddafi black?

    A much more effective whataboutism defense would be to refer to black slave owners that fought for the confederacy. THEN you have the "they did it too! You are just picking on me!"
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  5. #1145

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    I still don't get it. "They" are the ... Barbary Pirates, a bygone for a century and a half group of loosely defined rogue states / warlord bases?
    The Barbary Pirates were not black people. They were North Africans, so... Dark-white. Mediterranean-colored. Would you call Gaddafi black?

    A much more effective whataboutism defense would be to refer to black slave owners that fought for the confederacy. THEN you have the "they did it too! You are just picking on me!"
    You seem to be confusing yourself with a scenario of your own invention.

    In any case, you’re probably misinterpreting that guy’s “no comment”. Neo-Confederate types aren’t pro-slavery, they reframe the conflict so as to think about it as being about state’s rights rather than slavery. Yes, it’s a cope. No, it’s not really historically accurate. But, most seem to actually believe it. The guy switched to “no comment” once the nature of the interview became apparent to him. He didn’t want to dignify the question with a response or jump through the interviewer’s hoops.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  6. #1146
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    The guy switched to “no comment” once the nature of the interview became apparent to him. He didn’t want to dignify the question with a response or jump through the interviewer’s hoops.
    Or, he could have said "I am against slavery, obviously" like a decent human being of the 21st century.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
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    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  7. #1147

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Or, he could have said "I am against slavery, obviously" like a decent human being of the 21st century.
    I don’t relate to his position regarding the Confederate flag, but I certainly wouldn’t have responded, at least not seriously, if I were in his position. Over the years on this forum, I’ve occasionally been accused of expressing views in line with support for various -isms, most amusingly antisemitism, and to my recollection, I have not once offered an explicit denial, because I considered accepting the frame to be beneath me. Feeling the need to justify oneself in the face of unfounded allegations/implications simply demonstrates a lack of confidence. It implies (at least partial) acceptance of the allegation's credibility.

    Now I suppose it’s debatable as to whether or not it’s reasonable to assume that wearing a Confederate flag indicates support for slavery. I would say it rarely does these days, but that’s irrelevant, because I’m talking about from the Neo-Confederate perspective, in which it doesn’t. That is the emic view, as we refer to it anthropology. Likewise, I understand why many people see it as a racist symbol, regardless of how it’s intended.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  8. #1148
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    A private citizen can get away with taking the high ground, because nobody is ever going to see them again, and the interview is not going to change anyone's opinions. In that respect, this was just a 'freak show interview' to use the man to earn a few viral clicks...

    But for a public figure on the other hand, once a question has been asked, the lack of an explicit answer is PR dangerous. Because the narrative message that is being sent is one of avoidance, which looks untrustworthy. From a PR perspective, it can be better to simply state the idiocy of the question - while indirectly answering it - to put the onus back on the interviewer to explain the relevance or justify the question - which can leave the interviewee with an elevated status.

    I guess in this case, the interviewer will still look like a goading fool to people who agree with the interviewee, and will look funny and superior to his fans. It is the way of things.
    Last edited by antaeus; June 04, 2022 at 04:01 AM. Reason: e
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  9. #1149

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    https://thehill.com/news/house/35114...ing-after-you/

    Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) railed against the indictment of former Trump White House adviser Peter Navarro while saying in an interview on Friday that “if you’re a Republican, you can’t even lie to Congress or lie to an FBI agent or they’re coming after you.”
    He's just so indignant about it. The law applying to Republicans? As if they were mere peasants? It's unthinkable to him.

  10. #1150
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    https://thehill.com/news/house/35114...ing-after-you/



    He's just so indignant about it. The law applying to Republicans? As if they were mere peasants? It's unthinkable to him.
    I don't see that in the interview the article cites.

    EDIT: I saw it elsewhere.
    Impossible as it seems, it seems the idiot actually said that out loud.
    The Republicans will lose a seat because of that man.
    Last edited by alhoon; June 04, 2022 at 08:47 AM.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
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  11. #1151
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    "Hungary forced to play game behind closed doors due to fan racism, let in 30,000+ under 14s, who boo England players taking the knee"

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1533117613869518848


    Great.
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  12. #1152

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Tbf “taking the knee” is the most cringe American export since the Nae Nae.
    “Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be.” - Pope Leo XIII

  13. #1153

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/comedian-...225023747.html

    such a nice person...
    I wonder if that "no comment" fellow holds the same no-comment and neutral views over white people being enslaved by the Barbary Pirates around the same time as his ancestors were enslaving black people.
    Me watching a leftist "comedy" show:

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  14. #1154

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    "Hungary forced to play game behind closed doors due to fan racism, let in 30,000+ under 14s, who boo England players taking the knee"

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1533117613869518848

    Great.
    Rejecting controversial "anti-racism" rituals is not itself a form of racism, no matter how much liberals insist that they have a monopoly on opposing discrimination. It's as mindless as claiming that to repudiate the Eucharist is to spurn the ideas of forgiveness, charity and love.



  15. #1155

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/s...56692957876230

    After careful deliberation and objective analysis of the Georgia Republican Primary, Mike Lindell says he has “preliminary evidence” that Brian Kemp (73%) stole the Governor’s election from Kandiss Taylor (3%).
    I have preliminary evidence that Mike Lindell is a raving lunatic.

  16. #1156
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/s...56692957876230



    I have preliminary evidence that Mike Lindell is a raving lunatic.
    Oh, they do it in their own party opponents now?
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
    _______________________________________________________
    Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.
    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  17. #1157

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Oh, they do it in their own party opponents now?
    Ever since he refused to "find" more votes for Trump Kemp has been considered a RINO, as is anyone who doesn't think it's worth sacrificing our democratic constitutional system to soothe Trump's wounded ego.

  18. #1158

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    Rejecting controversial "anti-racism" rituals is not itself a form of racism, no matter how much liberals insist that they have a monopoly on opposing discrimination. It's as mindless as claiming that to repudiate the Eucharist is to spurn the ideas of forgiveness, charity and love.
    Not inherently, thought it certainly can be racist.

  19. #1159

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Mountain View Post
    Not inherently, thought it certainly can be racist.
    It's easy to assume that those who oppose certain policy prescriptions, analyses or rituals are acting in bad faith. The better explanation is that the people of a former communist country were rejecting a gesture associated with the Marxist and anti-Semitic rantings of the BLM "Global Network" and local BLM chapters. After all, it was these rantings which convinced the FA, Premier League, EPL clubs and English football broadcasters to drop all the BLM branding (other than the kneeling) in the first place.



  20. #1160

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    It's easy to assume that those who oppose certain policy prescriptions, analyses or rituals are acting in bad faith.
    Yes it is. Which is why the discussion of why something is racist is always more interesting than the accusation itself. Of course, increasingly phony explanation of why something is not actually racist tends to speak for itself.

    The better explanation is that the people of a former communist country were rejecting a gesture associated with the Marxist and anti-Semitic rantings of the BLM "Global Network" and local BLM chapters. After all, it was these rantings which convinced the FA, Premier League, EPL clubs and English football broadcasters to drop all the BLM branding (other than the kneeling) in the first place.
    You're right. A country with a history of discrimination cannot possibly be racist. Though of course, the crux of the matter isn't racism, BLM, or some other left-wing social justice cause. The attitude of the crowd speaks for itself and what it tells us individually is up for each person to decide on their own time. How the larger picture plays out is probably more consequential, though as I have little to no interest in soccer outside of the world cup, I am largely un-interested.

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