Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

[Coughdrop addict]

Wait, did Trump, a former president of the United states of America wished that a confederacy general that fought a civil war against the United states was still in service?

Indeed he did. You see, his base really wishes the confederacy had won so they could live in a country where white supremacy was enshrined in the law. They really, really hate it that Blacks are seen as equal citizens with Whites, and would gladly sacrifice their lives to prevent that, just as their confederate ancestors did.

[Cyclops]

Wait, did Trump, a former president of the United states of America wished that a confederacy general that fought a civil war against the United states was still in service?

Lee was regarded as the best US general before he joined the rebs, putting ideology before humanity. I doubt Trump knowingly tried to favour a rebel, my guess is he would've know the guy was famous and made Liberals angry so he namechecked him. Classic Trump, fart in the lift and then walk away.

Lee did take part in an adventure in Mexico when the US dabbled there (in the 1840's) and was probably the best performed officer IIRC so maybe he could be the man for a foreign adventure? More likely had he tried to "nation build" in Afghanistan for the US he'd have left with his tail between his legs like most servants of empires do: that place is easy to conquer but almost impossible to pacify.

Curious to say there's one strain of "Lost Cause" thinking that take a break from bemoaning Lincolns immorality and blaming Judah P Benjamin or some other bugbear, and places the loss at the feet of Lee. Bizarre really, there weren't many decent officers in North America (the US does not have a particularly glorious conventional military history, excelling rather at COIN ops until WWII) and there's not really a figure that displays a greater stature in the war. Grant and Sherman were mechanical soldiers, that is to say they did what US generals do best, problem solve (Yankee mechanics ftw) and fight hard (only a fool would doubt the courage of US soldiers), rather than execute military ballet. Most of the "great names" (Hood springs to mind) were decent as divisional or corps commanders but found leading an army harder.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

I mean Lee's star is shining less bright, if you look at the obvious incompetence of his opponents like McClellan in the Peninsula Campaign.

[alhoon]

Indeed he did. You see, his base really wishes the confederacy had won so they could live in a country where white supremacy was enshrined in the law. They really, really hate it that Blacks are seen as equal citizens with Whites, and would gladly sacrifice their lives to prevent that, just as their confederate ancestors did.

I know some Trump cultists (some are even in this forum) and the ones I do know don't wish the South has won nor want to be in a country where white supremacy is enshrined in law. Furthermore, none of the ones I know, not even the passive racists among the ones I know, hate that Blacks are seen as equal citizens with Whites. They may believe Blacks are less talented or less smart or something, but they don't support laws that treat them as sub-whites.

[Knight of Heaven]

I know some Trump cultists (some are even in this forum) and the ones I do know don't wish the South has won nor want to be in a country where white supremacy is enshrined in law. Furthermore, none of the ones I know, not even the passive racists among the ones I know, hate that Blacks are seen as equal citizens with Whites. They may believe Blacks are less talented or less smart or something, but they don't support laws that treat them as sub-whites.

Its projection really.
Demonization of political adversaries is the oldest trick in the book. Why bother with responsible critical thinking when you can just put people who think different then you in a box of evil, and villainy. What was the word Hilary used? deplorables right? which is another way pf saying undesirables.

Its easier, this way, now we dont even have to engage with tolerance anymore. People are encouraged to be intolerant to the other persons view, even if that person has been a old friend.
No wonder there is so much polarization today.

White supremacy, alt right etc, are the new convenient boxes to shut up any real dialogue, or proper discourse. When the reality, lots of people, i dare say the majority of trump voters aren't really a stereotype as much the Democrats would want them to be. There is nuances to all of this, that are readily put aside for political comfort and points.

At least that is what i found. And im not even an american.

[Heathen Hammer]

Wait, did Trump, a former president of the United states of America wished that a confederacy general that fought a civil war against the United states was still in service?

Both sides were the United States, kinda. Confederate and Union generals and officers served together in US military before and after the war. Confederate veterans were treated with same dignity as respect as Union ones or just generally US military veterans.
I think it all comes down to a rather dangerous issue of neoliberal cultists in America that attempt to attack anything that they find as "heretical" to their dogma (which in itself is based on outdated marxist worldview that has little bearing to reality and consists of blatant historical revisionism). They already attack such figures as Lincoln and Roosevelt as well, we see similar lunatics go after Churchill in UK and other Commonwealth countries, here in Canada we had those morons destroy statues to Victoria and the current queen.

[Coughdrop addict]

I know some Trump cultists (some are even in this forum) and the ones I do know don't wish the South has won nor want to be in a country where white supremacy is enshrined in law. Furthermore, none of the ones I know, not even the passive racists among the ones I know, hate that Blacks are seen as equal citizens with Whites. They may believe Blacks are less talented or less smart or something, but they don't support laws that treat them as sub-whites.

Then why do they display confederate flags (and Trump flags) far more prominently than US flags at their rallies? Why do they buy propaganda about minority debauchery, godlessness and gang warfare taking over the cities? Why do they cheer whenever a Black man is killed by a White cop, regardless of the circumstances?

The confederacy came to be for the same reason the Trump cult did, because wealthy right-wingers feared losing social control. Both were based on the wish to be despots over a rigid social hierarchy in which they are treated as superior and important without having to actually do anything and can abuse "inferiors" with impunity.

[alhoon]

Then why do they display confederate flags (and Trump flags) far more prominently than US flags at their rallies?

- Most of them don't.
- Some do it to troll Progressives.
- A tiny fraction is indeed pro-confederacy, so of course the media focuses on them during their coverage. Not out of malice but because it sells.

Why do they buy propaganda about minority debauchery?

- They don't.

Why do they buy propaganda about [...] godlessness and gang warfare taking over the cities?

- Because it happens in their areas and denying it happens in some areas of USA is putting on blinders and shouting "LALALALALA" to see / hear / speak no evil.

Why do they cheer whenever a Black man is killed by a White cop, regardless of the circumstances?

- They don't. They just gather up arms because they are afraid of riots and anarchy and gangs taking over their cities. Which occasionally happens, feeding their fears.

The confederacy came to be for the same reason the Trump cult did, because wealthy right-wingers feared losing social control.

Trump's base are not wealthy right-wingers. They are composed largely by the dredges of society: Non-minority rural blue-collars that are as poor as their minority neighbors with diminishing prospects as automatization and scientific progress makes them irrelevant.
And unlike their poor minority neighbors, they can't blame everything on the evil white man, nor they can tap on "for-minority-only" funds. Try make a fund that is "for underprivileged minority children" and nobody would bat an eye. Try to make a fund that is "for underprivileged white children" and see what I mean.

Trump's base has real, existing issues with immigration, with crime, with unemployment. And on top of their issues, they have intellectuals that look down on them as subhumans.

If only they were not as obnoxious, racist, polarized, anti-intellectual and unwashed, I would root for them.
As it is? They come in all varieties for me. A good portion of them is holds as appalling and disgusting views as a good portion of the progressives.
So... nope, I don't feel bad about half of them (Half of Trump's base, not Half of Republicans). Your reap what you saw.


Either far-side is horrible, moderates are the key to success.
And before anyone jumps in to say again that "It is moderated that got us in the current mess!":
The "current mess" is the best we have ever been. It is not a Utopia but it is far better than it was 50 years ago. And the reason we're heading to an environmental disaster at such speed, the only thing that seriously threatens our increasing prosperity is... the alt-right anti-intellectuals.

The reason we're heading to a societal, immoral limbo is of course, the alt-lefts and the progressives with their 50 gender crap and the Critical Race Theory.


Last but not least: A number of minorities voted for Trump in the 2016 and more in the 2020 elections. Bidet lost Florida because of the Latinos that voted for Trump.
You may say "10% of Black people voting for Trump is nothing!" but we're not discussing whether Trump is popular with blacks. We're discussing whether Trump's base, which includes black people in small but not insignificant numbers worships the confederacy.
They are not.

[Coughdrop addict]

Perhaps they do have it rough, but it is entirely their own doing.

They have been told over and over again, for decades, that their industries are going away. We offered to use government programs to retrain them to participate in the modern economy and workforce, Clinton even made that a big part of her campaign.

But they refused and instead gleefully followed every conman who came around, choosing the sweet lie of "It's all the fault of coastal liberals/globalists/Jews and their degeneracy!"

We warned them that they were being used. We showed them they were being lied to. But still they refused to see, and voted over and over again for whoever could scream the loudest about the culture war and how White male heterosexual Christians were the most oppressed people in the world, while passing laws to funnel their wealth up to the 1%.

Now, it's too late. The world has passed them by. They were offered a hand up and they smacked it away and threatened to lock us up, and now we have no reason to ever offer that hand again.

[Coughdrop addict]

More proof of how the American right is totally not racist, certainly aren't pining for the Confederacy, and DEFINITELY won't love to own slaves if only they could,

https://thehill.com/changing-america...braham-lincoln

Missouri state Rep. Tony Lovasco (R) said the “reprehensible” statues of former President Lincoln should be torn down in the name of fairness following the removal of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee’s statue in Richmond, Va., this week.
“If we insist on tearing down statues of reprehensible people, let's at least be fair and balanced about it,” Lovasco tweeted.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

It's quite possible to point out that neither Lincoln nor Lee where [sic] good people deserving of honor.”

Has he stolen that from the Trump speech from Charlottesville: "There were good people on both sides.", only turning it into the opposite?

[alhoon]

More proof of how the American right is totally not racist, certainly aren't pining for the Confederacy, and DEFINITELY won't love to own slaves if only they could,

https://thehill.com/changing-america...braham-lincoln

How one idiot's words that definitely don't mention that slavery is good, represents the ~100 million voters of the American right?
How saying some (admittedly stupid and downright antipatriotic) crap about Lincoln equates to "I want to own slaves" ? It DOES equate that this particular idiot pines for the confederacy, but that's one person. As I said earlier most of Trump's base doesn't support the confederacy. Yes, you will find 1-2 millions that do. But that's a small fraction of Trump's base.

[Heathen Hammer]

Its not that Lincoln or Lee were the best people in history, but rather the neurotic and irrational belief of woke left that history has to be purged of anything that doesn't fit the framework of marxist mythology. It is quite alarming, since people with woke liberal beliefs start to resemble islamic fundamentalists more and more.

[Cope]

How one idiot's words that definitely don't mention that slavery is good, represents the ~100 million voters of the American right?
How saying some (admittedly stupid and downright antipatriotic) crap about Lincoln equates to "I want to own slaves" ? It DOES equate that this particular idiot pines for the confederacy, but that's one person. As I said earlier most of Trump's base doesn't support the confederacy. Yes, you will find 1-2 millions that do. But that's a small fraction of Trump's base.

At first I thought Lovasco was making a ham-fisted attempt to argue that the logical outcome of the contemporary leftist purity spiral would be the abolition, not just of Confederate figures, but of time-honoured American icons. After all, monuments of, and dedications to, Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln Roosevelt, Columbus et al. have recently been defaced and/or denounced by radicals, often with the tacit approval of the Democratic Party. However, after reading more of his comments, it appears that Lovasco actually views Lincoln as an "oppressor". To support this conclusion, he offers such reasons as Lincoln's use of conscription (which Lovasco refers to as a form of slavery) and his suspension of habeas corpus. Lovasco also explicitly states that his criticism of Lincoln should not be equated with support for the Confederacy.

Lovasco followed up on his initial tweet, writing, “It's unfortunate how many people think saying ‘Lincoln was reprehensible’ equals some kind of support for the Confederacy, especially given the context of my tweet. It's quite possible to point out that neither Lincoln nor Lee where [sic] good people deserving of honor.

https://twitter.com/tonylovasco/status/1436034961170178054

[Vanoi]

Its not that Lincoln or Lee were the best people in history, but rather the neurotic and irrational belief of woke left that history has to be purged of anything that doesn't fit the framework of marxist mythology. It is quite alarming, since people with woke liberal beliefs start to resemble islamic fundamentalists more and more.

What history was purged? Statues built after the Civil War aren't history. You can still very much learn how my own state of South Carolina seceded from the United States over slavery and formed the Confederacy.
Books still exist.

[Coughdrop addict]

What history was purged? Statues built after the Civil War aren't history. You can still very much learn how my own state of South Carolina seceded from the United States over slavery and formed the Confederacy.
Books still exist.

The lack of statues will make it harder for the Neo-Confederates, closeted and not-so-closeted racists, and people who never grew out of the "You're not the boss of me Mom and Dad!" phase that are the bread-and-butter of the modern Republican party to push the lies that the Confederacy was a utopia, it didn't exist solely to preserve white supremacy, and their ancestors didn't throw their lives away so the wealthy plantation owners could keep their slaves.

I'm just waiting until they go all in and start calling Lincoln a Marxist and the 13 Amendment a communist plot.

[Vanoi]

The lack of statues will make it harder for the Neo-Confederates, closeted and not-so-closeted racists, and people who never grew out of the "You're not the boss of me Mom and Dad!" phase that are the bread-and-butter of the modern Republican party to push the lies that the Confederacy was a utopia, it didn't exist solely to preserve white supremacy, and their ancestors didn't throw their lives away so the wealthy plantation owners could keep their slaves.

I'm just waiting until they go all in and start calling Lincoln a Marxist and the 13 Amendment a communist plot.

The romanization of the Confederacy is a problem that has plagued the South for more than a century. Still clinging onto old ideas and culture that don't belong anymore.

[Coughdrop addict]

The romanization of the Confederacy is a problem that has plagued the South for more than a century. Still clinging onto old ideas and culture that don't belong anymore.

Part of it has been a deliberate push from the right to unite their voters around the myth of a lost golden age. Another part of it is that many of the hardcore lost causers assume that, had the Confederacy won, they'd be wealthy plantation owners with hundreds of slaves to abuse at their leisure. They don't understand it's more likely that they'd be unemployed (since slaves did most of the unskilled work) and with no social safety net, forcing them to migrate north. And that's the best case for most of them. Depending on how many Black ancestors they have and their physical appearance, they might be slaves themselves.

[Heathen Hammer]

What history was purged? Statues built after the Civil War aren't history.

Err what are you even talking about?
Of course plenty of historical monuments were build after USCW, history didn't stop in 1860s.
The point is that people that want to to "fix" history by vandalism and barbarity are a problem. At this point woke liberals are pretty much the American Taliban, except with CRT instead of islamic dogma.

[Vanoi]

Err what are you even talking about?
Of course plenty of historical monuments were build after USCW, history didn't stop in 1860s.

Yet none of the statues are considered so try again.

The point is that people that want to to "fix" history by vandalism and barbarity are a problem. At this point woke liberals are pretty much the American Taliban, except with CRT instead of islamic dogma.

What history is purged or fixed when you take down a statue? History isn't changed when a statue is taken down. It very much remains the same.