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Thread: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

  1. #21
    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Neither was Communist. In fact, the ideology of the German Worker's Party was largely determined any Anti-communism, Anti-Marxism and the widespread conspiracy theory of Bolshevism being a Jewish conspiracy. It emerged from the Thule Society and its founder, Anton Drexler, had originally joined the German Fatherland Party, a traditionally ultra-conservative party. Anti-capitalism does not mean communism.

  2. #22
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    As in this forum is obviously a great confusion about communism and facism here a little link for comparison:

    https://www.diffen.com/difference/Communism_vs_Fascism
    I'm no barbie doll I'm not your baby girl
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    I am rotten to my core if they're to be believed
    So what if I'm no baby bird hanging upon your every word?
    Nothing ever smells of roses that rises out of mud


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  3. #23
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    @Alhoon, actually fascism and communism have a lot of things in common. In fact the only thing they do not have in common is the ideological object.
    Considering they are Ideologies I consider the "ideological" problem enough to call them different.
    I agree that Far-Right and Far-left have many things in common, I really do. But they are the different ends of the spectrum.


    @Morticia:
    I can't read that page, I will not consent to give my personal data to an information-greedy bunch of people that want to target me with ads. So... I can't read that as it doesn't allow me to reject enough of their hooks.
    Last edited by alhoon; October 09, 2020 at 04:55 PM.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  4. #24
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    I can't say, that im bombarded with ads . At least not with such amusing ads like on TWC with daily bible quotes.^^ But everyone as he likes.
    I'm no barbie doll I'm not your baby girl
    I've done ugly things and I have made mistakes
    And I am not as pretty as those girls in magazines
    I am rotten to my core if they're to be believed
    So what if I'm no baby bird hanging upon your every word?
    Nothing ever smells of roses that rises out of mud


    Garbage - Why do you love me


  5. #25

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Well, no ads for me. I am highly amused by the "Here's how fascism actually ran the one time we actually ran into it" stood up against the "Well in theory this is how communism is supposed to work.....er..."
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  6. #26
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    I agree that Far-Right and Far-left have many things in common
    It depends on the meaning of the words.If we are talking about Trump's supporters versus anti-fascists,I don't think so. There ia a huge difference, yes, but they have nothing in common.
    The feelings of the Trump's supporters are well illustrated by their protest banners. Like this,
    "We won't stop until reach the end of democracy Via Cup End"
    (Photo in the newspaper "Público", published today)
    ---
    Who are they? usually white, heterosexual ultranationalist Christians, xenophobes,islamophobes, feverous adepts of a soft, modern version of the "limpieza de sangre"- the Iberian route of the contemporary US racist thought. It brings to my mind the limpieza de sangre of the Chart to describe Nuremberg Laws of 15 September 1935,
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Meanwhile, they keep complaining about the alleged totalitarian, Stalinist temptation of the "evil, anti-democratic" progressives, the "antidemocratic" democrats, the blacks, the Asians, the Mexicans, the liberal "elites" from above, the "subversive parasites" from below, the European Union, the WHO, the UN, and God knows what else.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  7. #27

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    Neither was Communist. In fact, the ideology of the German Worker's Party was largely determined any Anti-communism, Anti-Marxism and the widespread conspiracy theory of Bolshevism being a Jewish conspiracy. It emerged from the Thule Society and its founder, Anton Drexler, had originally joined the German Fatherland Party, a traditionally ultra-conservative party. Anti-capitalism does not mean communism.
    Wrong, Marxism is negation of capitalism. Again, for the sake of better understanding (and concern for fiscally literate participants of the discussion), it makes sense to disregard modern Western "interpretation" of Marxism as some sort of hippie ideology for equality and progress, which aims at ignoring historical facts in favor of that ideology. In reality Marxism has always been about anti-capitalism, equality be damned. Lenin and Hitler were functionally identical for a reason. Modern China is even more so similar, given how they literally include racial Han supremacy with their marxist maoist ideology.

  8. #28
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Hitler was not anti-capitalist, what are you even talking about? Capitalism is not about individual freedom, it is about private ownership. Hitler had no problem with capitalism. And while there are examples of Communist states acting against national groups, it was not because they believed that other groups were "superior" but because they thought (or think) that the national identity of certain groups is problematic for the state. As such, in a true "mass before individual" worldview, they are suppressing those problematic identities. Not because they think them inferior but because they think them as problematic.

    An Uyghur in China that denounces Islam, stops talking dressing and acting like his compatriots and adopts the manners the state considers desirable would soon raise through the ranks. A Jew in Nazi Germany would be hunted or even killed just because he had Jewish blood.


    That said, there are more flaws in your words HH.
    You can be anti-capitalist and not be a communist.
    Examples: Feudalism. Not communist, not capitalist.
    Some forms of Theocracy where the church owns lands and businesses and regulates parts of the economy: Not communist, not capitalist.
    And so on.

    Last but not least: Globalism is a product of Capitalism and a result of the Free Market. It is inevitable that in a profit-oriented society, companies would become multinationals and then as multinationals would try to homogenize the economy by overcoming national barriers. It is also inevitable that they will find desirable to place themselves above national laws so they can operate as they wish, in order to maximize profit.
    Again: Capitalism is about private ownership.
    Last edited by alhoon; October 15, 2020 at 04:58 AM.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  9. #29
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Hey guys, do you remember this from 2008? https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2w13qa
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    _______________________________________________________
    Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.

    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  10. #30
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    I always pay attention and respect to normal conservatives.
    That said, wherever/whenever there is someone dunking on social-democracies and explaining the flaws of the regulated economies,measures for income redistribution and social-welfare provisions,we will soon find that they are culture warriors who want a white ethno-state and rant about how London and Stockolm are the rape capitals of Europe.
    Last edited by Ludicus; October 18, 2020 at 10:05 AM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  11. #31

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Hitler was not anti-capitalist, what are you even talking about? Capitalism is not about individual freedom, it is about private ownership. Hitler had no problem with capitalism.
    Hitler's main economic theorist Gotfrid Feder would beg to differ. NSDAP's economic outlook was identical to their Soviet counter-parts with only slight cosmetic differences.
    And while there are examples of Communist states acting against national groups, it was not because they believed that other groups were "superior" but because they thought (or think) that the national identity of certain groups is problematic for the state. As such, in a true "mass before individual" worldview, they are suppressing those problematic identities. Not because they think them inferior but because they think them as problematic.
    That's only a cosmetic difference. Of course Germans viewed Jews as "problematic", I don't really see how that is different from Lenin and Trotsky's genocidal rusophobia in 1920 or Chinese Communists enacting Han Lebensraum against the Ujgurs.
    An Uyghur in China that denounces Islam, stops talking dressing and acting like his compatriots and adopts the manners the state considers desirable would soon raise through the ranks. A Jew in Nazi Germany would be hunted or even killed just because he had Jewish blood.
    See, the issue is that this isn't enough to Chinese Communists who want to force Uigurs to intermarry with Han "master race". That sounds like very typical eugenics program to deal with communist party's racial struggle against the minorities.

    That said, there are more flaws in your words HH.
    You can be anti-capitalist and not be a communist.
    Examples: Feudalism. Not communist, not capitalist.
    Some forms of Theocracy where the church owns lands and businesses and regulates parts of the economy: Not communist, not capitalist.
    And so on.
    And? NSDAP was socialist, neither feudal, nor theocratic. It has same basis as any other "revolutionary marxist" movement of its time.
    Last but not least: Globalism is a product of Capitalism and a result of the Free Market. It is inevitable that in a profit-oriented society, companies would become multinationals and then as multinationals would try to homogenize the economy by overcoming national barriers. It is also inevitable that they will find desirable to place themselves above national laws so they can operate as they wish, in order to maximize profit.
    Again: Capitalism is about private ownership.
    Globalism is anti-capitalist in its nature, as it is against free market. It is more of a result of symbiosis between oligarchy and pseudo-progressive socialists, who view old capitalism as common enemy and seek to destroy it. Hence why we observe the Western elites being allied to far-left waging a de-facto political cold war against the Western working class and "populist" movements that represent its interests.

  12. #32
    pacifism's Avatar see the day
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    NSDAP was socialist
    Really? How can you tell?
    Read the latest TWC Content and check out the Wiki!
    ---
    Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement

  13. #33

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacifism View Post
    Really? How can you tell?
    Their policies being carbon copy of those of Vladimir Lenin.

  14. #34
    pacifism's Avatar see the day
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Like what? Land redistribution and nationalizing economies? Literacy campaigns? Allowing secession movements? Or is it just "dictator who killed a lot of people"?
    Read the latest TWC Content and check out the Wiki!
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  15. #35

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacifism View Post
    Like what? Land redistribution and nationalizing economies? Literacy campaigns? Allowing secession movements? Or is it just "dictator who killed a lot of people"?
    Funny how land "redistribution" in reality was stealing land form the peasants, "literacy campaigns" were started long before Red ISIS took power before WW1, while secession movements and peasant uprisings were suppressed with use of poison gas. As the saying goes, the only people who don't understand the functional equivalency of fascism and communism are... fascists and communists.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    This is like pulling teeth. In what specific policies were they identical?
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  17. #37
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacifism View Post
    Or is it just "dictator who killed a lot of people"?
    Let me save you some time: It's "dictator who killed a lot of people" + "I label Socialism things I disagree with. The restaurant chef putting too much pepper in my burger is using socialist practices: preparing my food in a way I don't like."


    I have mentioned several times that "Killing large groups of people because you consider them subhuman in order to force them in servitude" is not the same as "killing large groups of humans because you consider their ideas dangerous and you think you cannot achieve equality as long as they are holding as much land."

    Communists did NOT believe in the Nation-state.
    The Nazis, Fascists, etc believe in a nation state with national superiority over and at the expense of the neighbors.
    Last edited by alhoon; October 18, 2020 at 09:16 PM.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  18. #38
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Psss...don't change the subject...

    The topic is: "Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives"? its not about communism, nazism and fascism. It's about inequality, racism, and reactionary politics.

    From New Zealand, with love, the opposite example. After Donald Trump’s 2016 election, US migration inquiries to New Zealand immediately rose 24-fold, according to The Guardian.

    And now, the cherry on top of the cake:Jacinda Ardern wins New Zealand election by a landslide FinancialTimes

    Jacinda Ardern has been given a clear mandate by voters to tackle inequality.
    The resounding victory follows a Labour campaign that focused on Ms. Ardern’s strong and empathetic leadership during a series of crises, including Covid-19 and the murder of 51 Muslims in Christchurch by a far-right extremist in 2019.
    During her first term in office the 40-year-old Labour leader was lauded by international media as a progressive “anti-Trump” figure, who promoted multilateralism and tolerance
    ------
    ------
    The Statue of Equality, not the Statue of Liberty, Why is New Zealand so progressive? - BBC

    In1948, New Zealand’s first professor of political science, Leslie Lipson, wrote that if New Zealanders chose to erect a statue like the Statue of Liberty, embodying the nation’s political outlook, it would probably be a Statue of Equality,” he writes. “This reflected New Zealanders’ view that equality (rather than freedom)was the most important political value and the most compelling goal for the society to strive for and protect.”
    Egalitarianism bred another national characteristic. New Zealanders prize modesty, and are suspicious of anyone who seems to consider themselves better than others.
    NewZealand ranked as the eighth-most-happy country in the 2019UN World Happiness Report forthe seventh year in a row, the only nation outside Europe in the top10
    The secret fears of the reactionary right wing Super-Rich, in the US, Richest US Families Seek Tax Savings Before Possible Biden

    Last edited by Ludicus; October 19, 2020 at 07:41 AM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  19. #39
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Dutch state broadcaster pulls logo from vans after attacks

    “Journalism is under attack from people and groups who only want to see their own world reflected back at them, who are trying to deny every other perspective, and are therefore attacking the freedom of the press … This is a defeat for journalism

    Terrorism tsar warns about far right violence, as MPs and journalists face abuse

    The Dutch counter-terrorism unit NCTV is warning that there is a continuing risk of extreme right-wing violence in the Netherlands, as the number of online threats in particular rise. Since the coronavirus outbreak, ‘people who have long distrusted the government, science and traditional media may find their views confirmed in conspiracy theories and misinformation,’ the NCTV says in its latest update. Besides the relatively broad, mixed activist upper layer, ‘there is a radical undercurrent with sometimes extremist behavior, such as harassing journalists and politicians or intimidating police officers.'
    It seem the crackpot conspiracy theorists have crossed yet another threshold. Apparently no longer content to congregate with like-minded people in internet echo chambers, they're taking to the streets to save us from the free press and elected representatives. Mind you, despite being associated with the far right, the motivations are often extremely diverse and more often opportunistic rather than ideological. Authority of any kind seems to be the common enemy though, which leads to bizarre marriages of ideas

    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  20. #40
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    It seem the crackpot conspiracy theorists have crossed yet another threshold. Apparently no longer content to congregate with like-minded people in internet echo chambers, they're taking to the streets to save us from the free press and elected representatives.
    And it became exponentially worse since Trump become President. But this gives me great confidence for the future. There is no return.
    According to Gallup, 46% of Democrats identify as liberal, while 35% identify as moderate and 17% identify as conservative.

    Understanding Shifts in Democratic Party Ideology

    • Rise in education levels a factor in pushing party to the left
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

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