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Thread: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

  1. #461
    irontaino's Avatar What's up danger?
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    The citation I gave concerned all the states. both North and South.
    And yet as was pointed out, the Federalists and Madison's arguments for a stronger central democracy generally won out.

    Aside from the obvious fact that the war did not start on account of the act of secession should be sufficient evidence. Where are all the articles of the time claiming the South committed treason by succeeding? Lincoln didn't declare war on the Southern states until Sumner was fired on because he knew he had no clear Constitutional standing.
    That or maybe he was content to let the south have their little hissy fit, that is until they fired on Fort Sumter?
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  2. #462

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorBatman999 View Post
    That is a stretch to compare, and not only just because the Finns won in the end.
    No they didn't, while suffering higher casualties Soviets won both wars.
    First, the cultural differences between Finland and Russia are much more vast than the Southern States and the Northern States. Although Mannerheim was from a Swedish dynasty and was known for speaking Finnish rather poorly, he identified more with Finland than Russia. Mannerheim joined the Finns at a time when national self-determination was a popular movement in political and social thought, providing an immediate justification for the Finns to seek independence from Russia. Looking at the United States, although commentators like Tocqueville, conversely, had noted that the American South was culturally different from the North, nobody considered the South to be an outright foreign culture: indeed, the South shared a language and common general origin with the Northern States.

    Secondly, Finland did not consensually join Russia, but was rather always a colony, first under Sweden and then ceded to Russia following the Russo-Swedish War of 1807. As the Finns did not get a say about the conditions wherein they'd live and serve a foreign empire, it made a rebellion against said empire more morally justifiable because they were not violating a voluntary contract. Virginia, meanwhile, had ratified the United States Constitution and thereby joined the Union when it was drafted in 1787, and had thus consented to the terms of the Union and agreed to recognize and cooperate as part of the federal government and as a state in relation to twelve-plus other states.

    Thirdly, Finland rebelled against Russia following a drastic regime change. Finland had been a colony under the Russian Empire, but the Russian Empire had become liquidated and was effectively null and void following the onset of the October Revolution. Any terms the Finns may have had with the Russian Empire also became null and void when that government had ceased to effectively exist.
    Its a fair point, but as usual, "the devil is in the details". I think it is fair to point out that in context of 1800s USA, one's state is far more important then federal government. Hence why Lee picked the only option which didn't, in fact, make him a traitor, since he sided with his home state, while remaining loyal to US military would brand him a traitor to his state. State was imply more important then federal government back then.

  3. #463

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    So then you have no actual citations that many people in the north considered secession legal?
    New England Federalists seem to have briefly flirted with secession during the War of 1812, and there were apparently lots of Northern abolitionists who wanted to secede and form their own slave-free nation.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secess..._United_States

    William Lloyd Garrison—"Henceforth, the watchword of every uncompromising abolitionist, of every friend of God and liberty, must be, both in a religious and political sense — 'NO UNION WITH SLAVEHOLDERS'"[47]

    It is not often remembered today, as it was the South that actually attempted to secede. However, there was a movement to have the North secede, thereby escaping the Slave Power that dominated the Federal government.

    Tensions began to rise between North and South by the late 1830s over slavery and related issues. Many Northerners, especially New Englanders, saw themselves as political victims of conspiracies between slave owners and western expansionists. They viewed the movements to annex Texas and to make war on Mexico as fomented by slaveholders bent on dominating western expansion and thereby the national destiny. New England abolitionist Benjamin Lundy argued that the annexation of Texas was "a long-premeditated crusade—set on foot by slaveholders, land speculators, etc., with the view of reestablishing, extending, and perpetuating the system of slavery and the slave trade".[48]

    Newspaper editors began demanding separation from the South. William Lloyd Garrison called for secession in The Liberator of May 1844 with his "Address to the Friends of Freedom and Emancipation in the United States". The Constitution was created, he wrote, "at the expense of the colored population of the country", and Southerners were dominating the nation because of the Three-Fifths Compromise; now it was time "to set the captive free by the potency of truth" and to "secede from the government".[49] Coincidentally, the New England Anti-Slavery Convention endorsed the principles of disunion by a vote of 250–24.[50]

    Support of secession began to shift to Southern states from 1846, after introduction of the Wilmot Proviso into the public debate. Southern leaders increasingly felt helpless against a powerful political group that was attacking their interests, reminiscent of Federalist alarms at the beginning of the century.
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  4. #464
    EmperorBatman999's Avatar I say, what, what?
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    No they didn't, while suffering higher casualties Soviets won both wars.
    I assume you're speaking about the Winter War and Continuation War, but I was referring to the Finnish Civil War, when Finland first asserted its sovereignty against Russia and the Bolsheviks, and which was Mannerheim's first military action as leader of the Finnish forces. Finland emerged from the Civil War as an autonomous, democratic republic. And while the the Winter War and Continuation War were both losses for Finland, she nonetheless managed to maintain general sovereignty while only losing some marginal territories to Russia. Finland never became a communist regime, and she especially never joined as an SSR. For how else things could have gone for Finland especially in 1945, maintaining national sovereignty following the Continuation War and Lapland War, maintaining sovereignty was a victory in itself, especially considering the fate of the rest of Eastern and Central Europe.

    Its a fair point, but as usual, "the devil is in the details". I think it is fair to point out that in context of 1800s USA, one's state is far more important then federal government. Hence why Lee picked the only option which didn't, in fact, make him a traitor, since he sided with his home state, while remaining loyal to US military would brand him a traitor to his state. State was imply more important then federal government back then.
    The only point at which the state had supreme status over the federal government was during when the Articles of Confederation were still in force. The Constitution of 1787 gave broad and strong powers to remedy the failings of the Continental Congress and providing mechanisms for the federal government to intervene in state affairs, for example to regulate interstate commerce or solve constitutional conflicts. The federal government also was the authority to establish new states, meaning that the federal government and National Constitution were the sources from which all states derived their power, rather than the other way around.

  5. #465
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

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  6. #466
    Tribunus
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morticia Iunia Bruti View Post
    To be fair Trump is a mercenary scumbag (he's been a registered Democrat at least once). The Republicans did use him to pull their cart so that's a stain, nd protected him from hanging for treason to protect their judicial gains coinciding with his misrule.

    Trump is from a caste above most politicians, part of the outrage at his hijacking the Republican nomination was that a Brahmin had descended to contest with Sudras.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  7. #467

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morticia Iunia Bruti View Post
    Its not like corporate journo would lie about politician, whose opponent was also funded by journo's corporate owner during an election that would make Putin and Xi Jinping look legitimate and democratically-elected.
    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorBatman999 View Post
    I assume you're speaking about the Winter War and Continuation War, but I was referring to the Finnish Civil War, when Finland first asserted its sovereignty against Russia and the Bolsheviks, and which was Mannerheim's first military action as leader of the Finnish forces. Finland emerged from the Civil War as an autonomous, democratic republic. And while the the Winter War and Continuation War were both losses for Finland, she nonetheless managed to maintain general sovereignty while only losing some marginal territories to Russia. Finland never became a communist regime, and she especially never joined as an SSR. For how else things could have gone for Finland especially in 1945, maintaining national sovereignty following the Continuation War and Lapland War, maintaining sovereignty was a victory in itself, especially considering the fate of the rest of Eastern and Central Europe.



    The only point at which the state had supreme status over the federal government was during when the Articles of Confederation were still in force. The Constitution of 1787 gave broad and strong powers to remedy the failings of the Continental Congress and providing mechanisms for the federal government to intervene in state affairs, for example to regulate interstate commerce or solve constitutional conflicts. The federal government also was the authority to establish new states, meaning that the federal government and National Constitution were the sources from which all states derived their power, rather than the other way around.
    My point is that US federal government de-facto lost its effect over population of CSA, the minute it declared its independence. At least as far as citizens of CSA had to be concerned, and Lee was one of them. Blaming Lee for siding with his state government and new CSA government on top of it superseded US federal government, which didn't really have any effect on Southern states at that point.

  8. #468

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    To be fair Trump is a mercenary scumbag (he's been a registered Democrat at least once). The Republicans did use him to pull their cart so that's a stain, nd protected him from hanging for treason to protect their judicial gains coinciding with his misrule.

    Trump is from a caste above most politicians, part of the outrage at his hijacking the Republican nomination was that a Brahmin had descended to contest with Sudras.
    The establishment did not resent Trump because he was considered too elite to debase himself with popular politics. Not only is the opposite the case, but your metaphor suggests you have no understanding of Trump’s popular appeal, genuine or not.
    White Anglo-Saxon Protestants born to money are a well-known New York type as well, but Donald Trump is not your classic New York WASP, either. He is from the Jamaica Estates neighborhood of Queens, a wealthy enclave in a working-class borough that's home to New Yorkers of all races and nations – not the tony Upper East Side.

    Though he is the scion of a wealthy real estate family, the city's old aristocracy never quite accepted Trump. In a tribal city, Donald Trump has no real tribe.

    Since he began running for office, much has been made of Trump's often failed efforts to gain approval from the Manhattan elite. That hardly made him unique: Many strivers never gain entrance into New York high society.

    https://www.usnews.com/news/cities/a...-new-york-city
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; September 22, 2021 at 08:54 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    No, we don't care about your libertarian "evidence".
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  9. #469

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/93yp...lection-rigged

    The day after Canada’s election, supporters of the far-right People’s Party of Canada (PPC) are reckoning with the fact their “purple wave” never occurred.
    Many had hoped the PPC would win a fair number of seats, or even just take one or two and get a fringe voice in Parliament, but every candidate was roundly defeated. This has, of course, led followers to take the “black pill” (fall deep into cynicism) or declare the election “rigged.”
    That's right, the libs have rigged every election the world over. So there's no point in you righties ever voting again. The real way to win is sending your politicians money and posting memes.

  10. #470

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Manchild Trudeau is certainly salty, he wanted majority and got... 3 more seats, as the other two leftist party slid into irrelevancy.
    PPC doubled their vote and they are literally celebrating. For a brand new party they are doing exceptionally well, although credit, at least in part, goes to CPC, running exceptionally bad (CPC leader alienated significant amount of voters by supporting vaccine mandates and carbon tax). Funniest part if they didn't cuck on those, they'd probably have premiership. Just goes to show that if you reject populism and prostitute yourself to the establishment, you always lose. Take notes, Republicans.
    However, there is a point about FPTP system not really working for Canada, since we have two city areas that essentially decide election outcomes, and do not really represent the rest of Canada.

  11. #471

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...00k-votes-were

    Alabama’s secretary of state is dismissing claims by MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell that 100,000 votes in November were flipped from former President Trump to President Biden, contending that such a situation is “not possible.”
    “All our [voting] machines are custom-built. There’s no modem component. You can’t influence them through a cell phone or a landline. There’s no way they can be probed or numbers manipulated,” Secretary of State John Merrill told AL.com.
    “We didn’t have any vote changes. Zero. It’s not possible to have any vote changed,” he added.
    Lindell, a Trump ally, made the claim while touring states as part of an effort to prove that the election was stolen from Trump because of computer manipulation, AL.com noted.
    In a video posted Sunday, Lindell said that while Alabama is a “role model as to how elections should go,” the state’s voting system was “hacked ... just like every other state,” according to AL.com.
    He said people may have accessed the system through bluetooth technology without offering additional evidence to bolster the claim or saying who he thought was involved.
    Unlike most everyone else in the upper ranks of the Trump cult, Lindell is a true believer in the big lie. Strong Daddy got ALL the votes and no amount of your liberal "facts" will ever convince him otherwise.

    I hope Trump picks him as his running mate in 24.

  12. #472

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    The Pillow Guy seems to be living in the heads of "progressive" neoliberal cultists as rent-free as Trump does.

  13. #473
    EmperorBatman999's Avatar I say, what, what?
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    The Pillow Guy seems to be living in the heads of "progressive" neoliberal cultists as rent-free as Trump does.
    Well, sort of, the Trump fanatics, for their part, seem to be genuinely enamored with him and his entire "Born Again Christian" life story, and then readily identified with him when the Left pilloried him and tried boycotting his products.

  14. #474

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorBatman999 View Post
    Well, sort of, the Trump fanatics, for their part, seem to be genuinely enamored with him and his entire "Born Again Christian" life story, and then readily identified with him when the Left pilloried him and tried boycotting his products.
    Its 2021, you have to be cancelled and hated by the left in order to be somebody.

  15. #475

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorBatman999 View Post
    Well, sort of, the Trump fanatics, for their part, seem to be genuinely enamored with him and his entire "Born Again Christian" life story, and then readily identified with him when the Left pilloried him and tried boycotting his products.

    Lindell had an inspiring story with his second chance at life. He made something of himself. But now he's pissed all of that away. He has spent millions chasing his delusions of voter fraud, not to mention the millions more Trump has certainly demanded to 'borrow'. Combined with the money he will have to pay Dominion for his libel and he will likely end up broke and homeless. And he will have no one to blame but himself, not that he won't try.

    I wouldn't be surprised if a homeless Lindell is last seen beating on the gates of Mar-a-Largo, begging Trump for help, before Trump has his security remove "that loser".

  16. #476

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Lyndell's networth almost doubled in the past year, I wish I had such an ability to "piss it all away".

  17. #477

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...inds-biden-won

    Former President Trump on Friday laid into the news media after a draft report of the 2020 election audit in Arizona reaffirmed President Biden’s victory in the state’s largest county and showed Trump with fewer votes than previously counted.
    In a statement issued through his leadership PAC, Save America, the former president called the audit report, which is slated for release Friday afternoon, a political bombshell that “has uncovered significant and undeniable evidence of FRAUD.”
    “Huge findings in Arizona! However, the Fake News Media is already trying to ‘call it’ again for Biden before actually looking at the facts—just like they did in November!” Trump said, invoking once again his baseless claim that the 2020 election had been stolen from him.
    Alright, you know the drill MAGAs. Your God demands more of your money. Stop selfishly spending it on frivolous things like "food" or "rent". Send it all to Him instead. You know your sole purpose in life is to pay for Trump's luxurious lifestyle, so snap to it!

  18. #478

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Yeah, totally different how Biden's "stimulus package" included billions-worth of subsidies to billionaires and foreign dictators, all stolen from taxpayers by Biden's government.

  19. #479
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Yeah, totally different how Biden's "stimulus package" included billions-worth of subsidies to billionaires and foreign dictators, all stolen from taxpayers by Biden's government.
    Those billions to foreign dictators keep them in USA's lap instead of them moving to the other camp. If USA wants to remain a superpower with access all across the globe, and its businesses to profit heavily from the places this dictators oppress, then they need to give those billions.

    I.e. it is a shrewd investment, but risky. Chances are the money will return to USA manyfold; they will get back 2B$ one way or the other for each B$ spent on those dictators. But the money will be bloody and wet with the tears of the oppressed.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  20. #480

    Default Re: Want to rant about rightwings and conservatives? This is your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Those billions to foreign dictators keep them in USA's lap instead of them moving to the other camp. If USA wants to remain a superpower with access all across the globe, and its businesses to profit heavily from the places this dictators oppress, then they need to give those billions.
    Not taxpayer's problem. If every of those regimes leaves America's camp, life of the average working Joe won't change a bit.
    I.e. it is a shrewd investment, but risky. Chances are the money will return to USA manyfold; they will get back 2B$ one way or the other for each B$ spent on those dictators. But the money will be bloody and wet with the tears of the oppressed.
    They don't go back to taxpayer's pocket, which si the point. Its literally government "investing" money of other people in questionable ventures that only benefit corporations and billionaires which don't really pay taxes.

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