‘Oikophobia’: Our Western Self-Hatred as a sign of Western civilizational decline

[conon394]

I love the little critters, they are awfully cute, but i admit that their bird predation is a growing problem pretty much everywhere, but 63 entire species? Wow. Well, especially stray cat populations in some countries should be drastically decimated and cat owners should be required to neuter or spay them more often. I think some governmental initiatives in this direction are overdue in some countries. If someone isn't able to provide medical care for an animal they shouldn't be allowed to own one anyways, so why not require them to have their animals sterilized.

For both dogs and cats sterilization should be a required. At adoption - the fee in the US is usually trivial. Also good would be to fund trap and fix programs for people in rural areas that are used to having 'barn cats' (better that is they typically exist and also process kittens into adoption but funding is low). But it only takes one irresponsible landowner to have a barn cat population that drives his or her neighbors nuts because their are the ones who end up fixing the ones that bleed off the colony.

[sumskilz]

I love the little critters

Then you should appreciate post #3123 in the community thread, if you haven't seen it, especially the pics in the spoilers. Now that's some civilizational decline.

[Cookiegod]

Ah, so all of that has nothing to do with this thread.

We're not all able to keep up to your high intellectual level

[swabian]

Then you should appreciate post #3123 in the community thread, if you haven't seen it, especially the pics in the spoilers. Now that's some civilizational decline.

Haha, i did!
You also showed us some pictures of the myraids of cats in Jerusalem, well i laughed

For both dogs and cats sterilization should be a required. At adoption - the fee in the US is usually trivial. Also good would be to fund trap and fix programs for people in rural areas that are used to having 'barn cats' (better that is they typically exist and also process kittens into adoption but funding is low). But it only takes one irresponsible landowner to have a barn cat population that drives his or her neighbors nuts because their are the ones who end up fixing the ones that bleed off the colony.

Yes, i'm aware. Cats are extremely effective small animal predators and i'm aware since long that it's a problem. I've heard about this the first time some 15-20 years ago and my state of information wasn't updated by my own effort or otherwise. It's clear that it has to have gotten worse and that it's really becoming an issue.

The sterilization of dogs is advisable to prevent the suffering of stray dogs, not so much because of their predation. Cats really are absolutely deadly for small birds which are far more important animals than cats or dogs, biologically.

Remember, though, that it's actually humans who make it possible cat populations are rising so swiftly. It's human's influence on biodiversity that is the problem again.

[Heathen Hammer]

Judging by your simplified your world-view, my endless struggle with fellow Turkish members on this forums is clear sign of oikophobia and Turkey is going down the drain because of critical people like me? Is that it?
I should be blindly supporting Turkey's militarism, anti-minority policies, narrative of grandeur, denial of genocidal historical events, lack of rule of law and worship a one-man that is teaching the whole world "a lesson".

Is this the way to be a great civilization that does not degenerate?
I thought it was relevant because I've probably debated with millions of nationalistic Turks and many called me a "self-hating" Turk...which has nothing to do with my criticisms.

Meanwhile, the "Marxist" N.Korea and China are some of the most ultra-nationalist states that stand on this earth. Something does not add up...

You can be opposed to Erdogan without, well, hating your own people like Western progressives do. Imagine opposition to Erdogan talking about "toxic Turkishness" or being violently upset over "its okay to be Turkish" phrase. But that's what's happening in the West, where racial self-hate is considered to be norm by abnormal state of declining civilization.
As I said, oikophobia is a phenomenon specific to the West. Hence why we don't see masochistic self-hate of Western "progressives" among Chinese or Koreans. Even non-Western democracies like Japan tend to be nationalistic and patriotic.

[swabian]

@HH: There is something to the phenomenon of "oikophobia" (not sure if it's an approved term; i heard it the first time from you), but i'm very reluctant to talk about it in your threads or as a comment to your postings. It's very easily exploitable and it eventually doesn't amount to much, because all those white and western 'autoracists', as one might call them as well, usually have at least one foot in their mouths and it's not really threatening. It's an annoyment or a mild 'academical affliction' on about the same level as gender theories. So eventually, it's of only minor consequence in my opinion.

[Heathen Hammer]

@HH: There is something to the phenomenon of "oikophobia" (not sure if it's an approved term; i heard it the first time from you), but i'm very reluctant to talk about it in your threads or as a comment to your postings. It's very easily exploitable and it eventually doesn't amount to much, because all those white and western 'autoracists', as one might call them as well, usually have at least one foot in their mouths and it's not really threatening. It's an annoyment or a mild 'academical affliction' on about the same level as gender theories. So eventually, it's of only minor consequence in my opinion.

We are already witnessing that morally psychotic segment of population rioting and looting all over USA, with dozens dead, all in the anme of fighting "white privilege" and other delusional specters that possess leftist imaginations. It isn't as harmless as they try to appear to be, or at least tried. I mean marxist circles in Russian Empire and Christian gatherings in Roman Empire seemed harmless too at first...

[swabian]

Black people simply have a much tighter social cohesion than all other racial groups. The crimes that are commited against non-blacks in the same way as they are commited against blacks are of course objectively just as relevant and enough people are aware of that, don't worry. Black people don't take oppressive or racist moves against them anymore, what do you expect? That's not to say that others should not stand up in somehow against police violence for example (not the same way, since the movement is partially criminal and corrupted). They just don't do it, but that's not the mistake of black people. The BLM movement is only about black interests, but they acknowledge, that police brutality in the US is a problem that affects everyone else as well. At least the non-zealous more rationally minded representatives do.

[Muizer]

As I said, oikophobia is a phenomenon specific to the West.

So far you've not even begun to demonstrate Oikophobia exists anywhere else but in the minds of the people who made it up or believe in it. In as far as these people are from the West, you could be right that Oikophobia only exists there, but while it is tempting to believe the rest of the world is immune to such sophistry, realistically, people being people, we have to assume such crackpot ideas can pop up anywhere.

Now, some may want to berate me for not addressing the substance of the theory of 'oikophobia'. The problem is, to know how the supposed cycle of civilization matches up with actual history requires us to know which 99% of history we should ignore. It's pointless. With all its talk of a early golden age followed by a fall from grace and inevitable decline, it is clear the concept owes less to actual history than it does to mythology. This isn't a theory with powers of prediction, it's a sermon.

[antaeus]

but they acknowledge, that police brutality in the US is a problem that affects everyone else as well. At least the non-zealous more rationally minded representatives do.

The standard assumption of people who don't understand (either deliberately, or because they are stupid) the Black Lives Matter movement, is that it is about black lives only.

But the term Black Lives Matter was always supposed to read "Black lives matter as much as everyone else" because it is based on the idea that black people tend to die more often than others when confronted with societies power structures.

So my response when confronted with someone who makes the former assumption is always "are you deliberately misrepresenting, or are you stupid?"

[swabian]

Well, there we go.

So far you've not even begun to demonstrate Oikophobia exists anywhere else but in the minds of the people who made it up or believe in it. In as far as these people are from the West, you could be right that Oikophobia only exists there, but while it is tempting to believe the rest of the world is immune to such sophistry, realistically, people being people, we have to assume such crackpot ideas can pop up anywhere.

Western self-hatred certainly does exist! This is actually not uncommon. It's overly damning overly focused thinking about the destructiveness of European colonialism. The anti-colonialist movement bereft of critical thinking so to speak.

And it is missing in most other countries, just like white Europeans are missing in other countries.

Where are the (significant) white minorities in the Middle East, India or East Asia, struggling with racial prejudice? Because of the complete absence of any potentially abusable white minorities in those countries, there are of course no respective guilt-complexes. There is no comparable societal evolution.

[swabian]

The standard assumption of people who don't understand (either deliberately, or because they are stupid) the Black Lives Matter movement, is that it is about black lives only.

But the term Black Lives Matter was always supposed to read "Black lives matter as much as everyone else" because it is based on the idea that black people tend to die more often than others when confronted with societies power structures.

So my response when confronted with someone who makes the former assumption is always "are you deliberately misrepresenting, or are you stupid?"

And what does that help? You're only saying that they are stupid or somehow otherwise despicable and not to be taken seriously.
I told HH a dozen of times that he oversteps the line and even that i find his comments crazy. It's not only HH, so what does this help as a basic attitude?

I'm of course an impulsive blabbermouth who can't stop toying with something that is interesting. But i still think that the basic stance you are proposing isn't helpful. If you want to stoically ignore the "deplorables" then just do it. I don't need your advice about it.

[Heathen Hammer]

So far you've not even begun to demonstrate Oikophobia exists anywhere else but in the minds of the people who made it up or believe in it. In as far as these people are from the West, you could be right that Oikophobia only exists there, but while it is tempting to believe the rest of the world is immune to such sophistry, realistically, people being people, we have to assume such crackpot ideas can pop up anywhere.

Now, some may want to berate me for not addressing the substance of the theory of 'oikophobia'. The problem is, to know how the supposed cycle of civilization matches up with actual history requires us to know which 99% of history we should ignore. It's pointless. With all its talk of a early golden age followed by a fall from grace and inevitable decline, it is clear the concept owes less to actual history than it does to mythology. This isn't a theory with powers of prediction, it's a sermon.

Are you suggesting that Western self-hatred doesn't exist? That we didn't witness violent mob destroying historical statues of different historical figures that were only united by the fact that they were Western? Are you saying that oikophobes didn't have a meltdown over "its okay to be white" posters? I mean saying that this isn't a thing is just blatant denial of objective reality, especially in light of the recent and ongoing events.

[swabian]

Are you suggesting that Western self-hatred doesn't exist? That we didn't witness violent mob destroying historical statues of different historical figures that were only united by the fact that they were Western?

I don't think that has much relevance. This is a mob that uniformly agrees on only one thing, namely to vandalize. They even tore down a statue of Abe Lincoln. It's only showing that there are angry people who are happy with a primitive outlet like this.

[Exarch]

None of you guys are addressing the core reason for western civilisational decline, especially in relation to 'western self hate'.

The fact is, western civilisation is unsustainable because it is a philosophy based on exclusion, the subsection of western civilisation, nazi germany was an honest manifestation of this. western civilisation only functions as a cohesive group when directed as a focus of hate against another group, be it muslims, the Rus or Chinese, otherwise it descends into infighting and notions of racial supremacy.

For eg, in the anglo's-here, there is a desire to create a [an white CANZUK white supremacist anglo empire in name as well as in practice; this has been achieved de jure via the Five Eyes, but in this there is a racial hierarchy. For instance, it is accepted in these societies that greeks and italians are lesser whites than english or norwegians, else wise you wouldn't have racial discrimination against greeks and italians in the form of racial epithets and exclusion.

[swabian]

You waltz around spreading your supposedly undeniable truth about the superiority of China and how we should slavishly submit to the Chinese. Seriously, Exarch, what do you even want? Do you want the "anglos" to wake up and take power or do you want us all to submit to the Chinese overlords?

[antaeus]

Especially because "Western" self-hate only exists in the same sense that "Eastern" self-hate or "African" self-hate exist. It's a concept that exists in the minds of paranoid people. There are paranoid people in every culture. For example, some parts of the Chinese state have a century long inferiority complex that some elements seek to use to justify the accumulation and projection of power. That doesn't make cultural self-hate a legitimate experience for everyone, or even anything more than a small minority. I wouldn't deny that the idea of "western" self-hate exists because it clearly does in the minds of about 3 people in this thread. Whether that means that there is some sort of decline of anything is another matter.

Decline is a subjective term that only has meaning in this context to those who think they have something to lose when their culture interacts with other cultures. Whereas I think cultures have something to gain from interacting, so I don't see this view as having any serious merit.

[swabian]

@antaeus

I in fact believe that Exarch wants to actually incite some kind of race war but is (understandably) reluctant to come clear with it. I think i'm sufficiently aware of what i'm dealing with.

I don't know what you mean, antaeus. Admitting that there is relatively widespread guilt in Europe and her offspring about colonialism isn't a big deal. The decline of western culture and white guilt-complexes are two separate phenomena that are only mildly correlated. Also, inferiority complexes among non-white ethnicities are something entirely different than white guilt-complexes as a consequence of colonial abuse of non-whites.

EDIT:

The west is not declining because traditionally white countries are becoming more diverse, it's a relative shift of power, because other nations, especially China, are becoming more influential.

This has nothing to do with the very real phenomenon of irrational white guilt.

[antaeus]

@antaeus

I don't know what you mean, antaeus. Admitting that there is relatively widespread guilt in Europe and her offspring about colonialism isn't a big deal. The decline of western culture and white guilt-complexes are two separate phenomena that are only mildly correlated.

I don't think there is such a thing as the decline of "western" culture, I think the people who fear "western" cultural decline, are responding directly to what you have described as a cultural "guilt complex". From what I can see, the "guilt complex" is an accusation labelled on others who want to "right historic wrongs" as if compensation or correcting historic mistreatment or adjusting societal behaviour so as to not do things that used to be harmful to others is a bad thing.

I can tell you, having grown up and lived most of my life in a post-colonial country, that there are those alive now in my country who were literally born classed as non-human. And there are also others who live in my country now who think that compensating those people is a sign of weakness.

Also, inferiority complexes among non-white ethnicities are something entirely different than white guilt-complexes as a consequence of colonial abuse of non-whites.

Different in context perhaps, but they're a consequence of similar thought processes in the people within those cultures. Every culture is capable of both abuse of others, and later a guilt response in some within that culture. The only difference I see is scale.

[swabian]

Different in context perhaps, but they're a consequence of similar thought processes in the people within those cultures. Every culture is capable of both abuse of others, and later a guilt response in some within that culture. The only difference I see is scale.

Hmm. This is an interesting approach after all. Not sure if that makes sense, but i can feel where you're at. I need to mull about it and google a little more.