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Thread: Not the Onion: Poland and Hungary to create inter-governmental institution to monitor the rule of law in other EU countries

  1. #1
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Not the Onion: Poland and Hungary to create inter-governmental institution to monitor the rule of law in other EU countries

    Poland and Hungary will jointly create an institute to assess the rule of law in EU member states. Both countries have themselves been regularly found by European institutions to have violated the rule of law.
    The plan was announced today following a meeting in Budapest of the Polish and Hungarian foreign ministers, Peter Szijjarto and Zbigniew Rau.
    Its aim will be to stop the EU applying “double standards towards Hungary and Poland”, said Szijjarto, quoted by Polish newspaper Rzeczpospolita. “Some politicians from western Europe have used us as a punching bag for long enough.”


    The new body will promote “debate and transparency”, added Rau. It will seek to stop what should be a “legal” issue from being turned into a “political” one.
    His Hungarian counterpart also emphasised that “Poland is our closest ally in Europe”, and that the two are “brothers in arms” when it comes to “pursuing interests in foreign policy”.
    Under their current populist governments, both Hungary and Poland have repeatedly faced censure from international institutions over violations of the rule of law.
    During PiS’s first four years in office, Poland recorded the biggest decline of any country in the World Justice Project’s Rule-of-Law Indexand dropped six places in the Economist Intelligence Unit’s Democracy Index (where it is now classified as a “flawed democracy”).
    Freedom House also no longer classifies Poland as a full democracy, pointing to the government’s “systematic, targeted, and aggressive attacks on judicial independence” as it seeks to “convert [courts] into a pliant political tool”


    Earlier this year, the European Commission began its latest round of infringement proceedings against Poland, accusing its government of seeking to exert “political control” over judges.
    Two weeks ago, a large majority of members of the European Parliament voted to adopt a report strongly criticising Poland over the rule of law, including for discrimination against LGBT people. It called for the commission to take tougher action, including restricting EU funds.
    Discussions remain ongoing over the EU’s budget for the 2021-2027. One of the sticking points is a proposal by some member states to include a mechanism for limiting funds to countries that violate the rule of law.
    https://notesfrompoland.com/2020/09/...-eu-countries/


    Basically this is just Poland and Hungary screaming NO U at the rest of Europe.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Not the Onion: Poland and Hungary to create inter-governmental institution to monitor the rule of law in other EU countries

    To be fair Western Europe calling Poland or Hungary non-democratic is just pot calling kettle black situation, where countries like Germany routinely arrest people for social media posts and have ridiculous laws that impede on individual freedoms call out Hungary and Poland for much less blatant transgressions against the democratic ideal. All those billionaire-owned "classifiers" like Freedom House of course support the former against the latter, so now minor, but brave underdog Viseguard nations (who already had extensive experience with authoritarian socialist experiments when they were in proto-EU during Cold War) are paying them in kind.
    It all kinda just goes to show that EU will never function as its leadership thinks or hopes it will.

  3. #3
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: Not the Onion: Poland and Hungary to create inter-governmental institution to monitor the rule of law in other EU countries

    Hungary arrests or blatantly bankrupts people for social media posts and criticizing "the leadership" too.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Not the Onion: Poland and Hungary to create inter-governmental institution to monitor the rule of law in other EU countries

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    Hungary arrests or blatantly bankrupts people for social media posts and criticizing "the leadership" too.
    Yeah fashy backwater Eastern bloc countries portraying themselves as defenders of freedom against the Soviet EU is hilarious to watch from the sidelines. Sure glad I got muh Constitution (for now).
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  5. #5

    Default Re: Not the Onion: Poland and Hungary to create inter-governmental institution to monitor the rule of law in other EU countries

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    Hungary arrests or blatantly bankrupts people for social media posts and criticizing "the leadership" too.
    Care to provide some examples? It seems that Germany's democracy is in far worse state then either of the Viseguard states, and that has been the case for a while.

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    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: Not the Onion: Poland and Hungary to create inter-governmental institution to monitor the rule of law in other EU countries

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  7. #7

    Default Re: Not the Onion: Poland and Hungary to create inter-governmental institution to monitor the rule of law in other EU countries


    But it isn't government attacking it, it is just failing financially, which at the end of the day simply just indicates their lack of popularity, as Obran didn't ban them nor is using state agencies to influence them in any way. It sucks to suck, but that's just capitalism in action.
    I don't see how that compared to Germany literally arresting people for posting wrongthink on social media. German democracy is doing much worse then that of Poland and Hungary, it seems.

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    Default Re: Not the Onion: Poland and Hungary to create inter-governmental institution to monitor the rule of law in other EU countries

    Perhaps you failed to notice the part where it's THE BIGGEST AND MOST POPULAR OUTLET IN HUNGARY. It's financial troubles are entirely due to various subservient oligarchs and government stooges trying to buy it and donate it to Orban, as was the case with every other anti-Orban outlet in the country.
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  9. #9
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: Not the Onion: Poland and Hungary to create inter-governmental institution to monitor the rule of law in other EU countries

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    here countries like Germany routinely arrest people for social media posts
    You keep saying that as if it's something "everybody knows". Everbody doesn't know. Care to provide some statistics?
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  10. #10

    Default Re: Not the Onion: Poland and Hungary to create inter-governmental institution to monitor the rule of law in other EU countries

    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    You keep saying that as if it's something "everybody knows". Everbody doesn't know. Care to provide some statistics?
    There have been a few, of the "See all of my guns? I'm going to use them to kill every (insert ethnic or racial slur) I see today." and "(insert political persuasion the lunatic thinks all of his enemies have) are filthy and subhuman and you should kill them all right away. Here's how to build a bomb." variety. Naturally the Andres Bhrevik's and Bennton Tarrant's of the world think this is highly unfair.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Not the Onion: Poland and Hungary to create inter-governmental institution to monitor the rule of law in other EU countries

    In a coordinated campaign across 14 states, the German police on Tuesday raided the homes of 36 people accused of hateful postings over social media, including threats, coercion and incitement to racism.

    Most of the raids concerned politically motivated right-wing incitement, according to the Federal Criminal Police Office, whose officers conducted home searches and interrogations. But the raids also targeted two people accused of left-wing extremist content, as well as one person accused of making threats or harassment based on someone’s sexual orientation.

    The raids come as Germans are debating the draft of a new social media law aimed at cracking down on hate speech, a measure that an array of experts said was unconstitutional at a parliamentary hearing on Monday.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/20/w...ial-media.html
    The number of people being arrested for “online crimes of speech” have increased dramatically in London.

    While arrests for aggressive, threatening or hateful speech on social media declined between 2010 and 2013, the numbers rose last year.

    According to the Register, a total of 2,500 Londoners have been arrested over the past five years for allegedly sending “offensive” messages via social media. In 2015, 857 people were detained, up 37 per cent increase since 2010.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7064246.html

    France is empowering regulators to slap large fines on social-media companies that fail to remove postings deemed hateful, one of the most aggressive measures yet in a broad wave of rules aimed at forcing tech companies to more tightly police their services.

    France’s National Assembly passed a law Wednesday that threatens fines of up to €1.25 million ($1.36 million) against companies that fail to remove “manifestly illicit” hate-speech posts—such as incitement to racial hatred or anti-Semitism—within 24 hours of being notified.

    The law also gives the country’s audiovisual regulator the right to audit companies’ systems for removing such content and to fine them up to 4% of their global annual revenue in case of serious and repeated violations. The measure takes effect on July 1.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/france-...aw-11589398472
    As much as I hope these are controversial exceptions rather than rules, it doesn’t seem like it. For all the problems in my country, this is the sort of tyranny many Americans fear and dread.

    Congressional lawmakers are drafting a bill to create a “national commission” at the Department of Homeland Security to study the ways that social media can be weaponized — and the effectiveness of tech giants’ efforts to protect users from harmful content online.
    The draft House bill obtained by The Washington Post is slated to be introduced and considered next week. If passed, the commission would be empowered — with the authority to hold hearings and issue subpoenas — to study the way social media companies police the Web and to recommend potential legislation. It also would create a federal social media task force to coordinate the government’s response to security issues.
    The effort reflects a growing push by members of Congress to combat online hate speech, disinformation and other harmful content online, including a hearing held Wednesday where Senate lawmakers questioned Facebook, Google and Twitter executives to probe whether their platforms have become conduits for real-world violence.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...nline-content/
    We can’t let it happen here. #LiveFreeOrDie
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  12. #12

    Default Re: Not the Onion: Poland and Hungary to create inter-governmental institution to monitor the rule of law in other EU countries

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    Perhaps you failed to notice the part where it's THE BIGGEST AND MOST POPULAR OUTLET IN HUNGARY. It's financial troubles are entirely due to various subservient oligarchs and government stooges trying to buy it and donate it to Orban, as was the case with every other anti-Orban outlet in the country.
    Biggest and popular according to... what? So far what we see is just another case of business losing money because it is not successful. I don't see how Orban should be blamed for the outlet not making money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    You keep saying that as if it's something "everybody knows". Everbody doesn't know. Care to provide some statistics?
    https://www.theverge.com/2016/7/13/1...ny-police-raid
    https://www.economist.com/europe/201...nnot-define-it
    Poorly defined censorship laws which allow government to attack anyone criticizing its desired narrative is staple of nations which aren't free and lack free speech - Russia, China, UK, Iran and Germany too.
    Last edited by Heathen Hammer; October 01, 2020 at 10:03 AM.

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