v19 Faction Focus: Germania

[ahowl11]

Hello,

Now that v18 is out and the mod itself is pretty fleshed out, I’ve decided to steer the mod into a new direction. Instead of taking other mods and trying to fit them into mine, I’m going to go back to the mods roots and focus on one faction and it’s surrounding areas at a time. There are two reasons for this. First, I’m running out of space to fit units from other mods so I need to start getting more decisive and historical with what I add, and second it’s just time to make each faction as unique as possible to bring a unique gameplay experience.
The first faction will be the Germans and there surrounding areas in Germania. This thread will be used for:
research, books, articles, videos, ideas, suggestions etc. anything that any of you think is valuable to bring into the mod for the Germanic faction and regions, post it here! I want to hear the ideas that you all have that will make the Germans a better faction to play as or against.

Everything you post will be considered and there’s a good chance it will be added if it makes sense!

[shikaka]

Mostly thinking about gameplay!
What I like about Rome 1 (and your mod of course) is that factions have a clearly defined strength and weakness, especially compared to the later games. There is a big difference in the rosters of Carthage and Gaul, not to mention Scythia.

Instead of history, I think the gameplay should come first: build on the niche of the faction, even though it is not historical.


How I see barbarians niche:
Britons: skirmishers, special chariots
Gaul: hybrid archer, ambush unit, strong frontline
Germania: strong frontline, fear units
Dacia: generic roster, but no weak points


Barbarian invasions did things a bit differently, and added flavor to a few factions. Warcry was removed from most factions! "Can sap" removed from most factions.
Alemanni group: these are generic RTW barbarians mostly
Franks: good heavy infantry (as good as romans), some are even ranged attack capable.
Celts: charging infantry (most get warcry), weakish line infantry, ranged troops are not really skirmishers, but they have AP (slings, crossbows)
Sarmatia group: similar to Scythia, but they get quite a few female units. Also, really good quality spearmen from T4 (or T5?) barrack



As I see RTW Germania:
Signiture gimmick: fear (night raider, women and berserkers all scare enemy). This didn't really work in RTW vanilla, because their warband phalanx unit was so damn useful. It simply didn't make sense to train fear units. I think I would develop the roster in this direction, make fear units easily retrainable (remove them from temple, and add to barracks or taverns maybe?)

Additional consideration 1. I often see that barbarians deplete their population with continous recruitment, so they are stuck with tier 1 units. As far as I know it is not possible to force the AI to enslave conquered cities. I think their settlements should be restructured: a bit higher base population (harder to deplete), but maybe less pop growth.

Add 2: While it doesn't matter to the AI, I think barbarian players need a way to fight bad public order. With no tier 5 settlements and entertainment buildings (odeon, hippodrome) AND the addition of culture to the game, they have a tough time converting greco-roman culture cities. This is like Scipii and eastern culture settlements in Africa.

Maybe: based on Teutoburg forest, I think you can add forest ambush units to Germania if you want.

[ahowl11]

Mostly thinking about gameplay!
What I like about Rome 1 (and your mod of course) is that factions have a clearly defined strength and weakness, especially compared to the later games. There is a big difference in the rosters of Carthage and Gaul, not to mention Scythia.

Instead of history, I think the gameplay should come first: build on the niche of the faction, even though it is not historical.


How I see barbarians niche:
Britons: skirmishers, special chariots
Gaul: hybrid archer, ambush unit, strong frontline
Germania: strong frontline, fear units
Dacia: generic roster, but no weak points


Barbarian invasions did things a bit differently, and added flavor to a few factions. Warcry was removed from most factions! "Can sap" removed from most factions.
Alemanni group: these are generic RTW barbarians mostly
Franks: good heavy infantry (as good as romans), some are even ranged attack capable.
Celts: charging infantry (most get warcry), weakish line infantry, ranged troops are not really skirmishers, but they have AP (slings, crossbows)
Sarmatia group: similar to Scythia, but they get quite a few female units. Also, really good quality spearmen from T4 (or T5?) barrack



As I see RTW Germania:
Signiture gimmick: fear (night raider, women and berserkers all scare enemy). This didn't really work in RTW vanilla, because their warband phalanx unit was so damn useful. It simply didn't make sense to train fear units. I think I would develop the roster in this direction, make fear units easily retrainable (remove them from temple, and add to barracks or taverns maybe?)

Additional consideration 1. I often see that barbarians deplete their population with continous recruitment, so they are stuck with tier 1 units. As far as I know it is not possible to force the AI to enslave conquered cities. I think their settlements should be restructured: a bit higher base population (harder to deplete), but maybe less pop growth.

Add 2: While it doesn't matter to the AI, I think barbarian players need a way to fight bad public order. With no tier 5 settlements and entertainment buildings (odeon, hippodrome) AND the addition of culture to the game, they have a tough time converting greco-roman culture cities. This is like Scipii and eastern culture settlements in Africa.

Maybe: based on Teutoburg forest, I think you can add forest ambush units to Germania if you want.

I will probably be more historical but I will make sure the Germanic faction has a unique feel to them. Also there will be some new buildings to help things with population, health and order.

[shikaka]

I gave it some thought, here is what I could come up with.




Barbarians in general (Dacia, German, Gaul, Briton, Iberian):
- early unit should be the vanilla warband (maybe add a few javelins to them?)
- barbarian skirmisher (javelin, fast moving, expert hiding)
- archer and slinger fits every faction (didn't find info on outstanding archery among them though)
- a mid-tier shock infantry (warcry) is valid for each barbarian faction
- a naked fanatic type unit fits all
- cavalry: I didn't find any mention about any of them not having cavalry, so they should have at least "medium" cavalry




Gameplay specialities:


Britons:
- additional skirmish chariot
- champion unit which improves morale of warbands (don't know how historical, but legends usually have chapion/hero plus some spearmen helping him. Or is this celtic?)
- if you want some additional flavor, you can add picts


Gaul:
This should mainly be a rush army. Cavalry and fast moving warcry infantry. Their top units could be disciplined heavy infantry (representing their experience gained as mercs). Lower end melee units should use a spear, high end ones longer swords.
I didn't find any mention about gauls being exceptional archers. (the forester warband is a fun unit tho)


Germania:
What I read their warfare was very similar to gauls. It is difficult to differentiate them to be honest. Both had the "young men with spears, experienced men as heavy infantry with sword or axe". Ideas:
- vanilla fear units are nice
- take away warcry, but add better morale
- add hide in forest/bonus in forest to lots of units


Dacia:
Dacians are easy As they came into contact with thrace, scythia AND macedon, they learned from all of them.
- some heavy skirmisher (similar to greek cities heavy peltast)
- some light hoplite infantry (similar to vanilla germania warband phalanx. Never understood why Germania got them, not Dacia)
- falxman and heavy (armored) falxman
- horse archers (not as good as scythians)


Iberians:
Again, quite easy.
- Remove the horrendous town watch, and give them regular barbarian units (warband, slinger, skirmisher)
- scutarii of course (maybe have a heavy version)
- some kind of elite mountain unit: a skirmisher or a slinger




Barbarian gameplay flavors in a more general format:
- traditional charge infantry + fear
- traditional charge infantry + staying power (morale booster druids and/or heroes and champions)
- foot skirmisher (fast moving, hide in woods, etc.)
- strange units as spice (basic horse archer, skirmish chariot, berserker, javelin cavalry, hoplite imitation)
- consider changing warcry to better base morale for one of the factions (Barbarian invasions did this, and it works)
- it is no problem if they completely lack a unit (again, Barbarian invasions. Unit rosters are smaller than RTW, but each is tailored for one specific playstyle.)

[Lord_Dagoth]

I think that the northern barbarian factions should all start out with special niches such as hiding and ambush with the Germanians, skirmishing with the Britons, and the Gauls with an initial balance of both in the early game.
As the game goes on, they should get armored and disciplined variants and become more similar to eachother, while still having their early specialties maintained and elaborated on.

I also think they should take longer to reach their best troops than any other faction. It would be a good way to portray the disorganization among the tribes, the difficulties in confederation, and the singular combatant nature of the barbarians; however, when they do finally reach their best and organize, they are frightening to see.

Britons:
I don't like how the Britons were in vanilla RTW, they were a gimmick faction without adequate ranged units despite being skirmish centered.
I don't think that chariots work well as the Briton's niche, a good special unit maybe, but they're unpredictable and clunky and don't do the faction justice.

I think that at the start they as a faction would be more timid in their engagements and prefer to pick battles favorable to them in a guerilla warfare style, and at the late game should get some of the best barbarian line infantry (who visually stand out, to intimidate their enemy and as a bonus reduce the chance of getting hit by friendlies) to take and hold ground for their capable ranged units to shoot from. (It would also be cool to see a druidic warlord unit similar to Germania's berserker.)

Germania:
I really like how Germania was done in vanilla RTW, their variety and gameplay is how all the other neighboring barbarian factions should have been like.
I'd love to see the German ambush gameplay made more integral to early game survival, with fearsome traps being able to be set up and casualties always trying to be minimized. At the late game they should have some of the most fearsome shock infantry and cavalry combined with dependable ambush units following around them (but with lighter ranged units) to drive home the fast moving and hard hitting style from vanilla.

Gauls:
They were usually the first barbarian faction you'd encounter when you played the game; they had a little bit of everything, and good religious buildings as well. I always viewed them as a broad barbarian faction with a jack of all trades, master of none mentality.

I think that by the end game, all three of these factions should get quality front line troops armored in chainmail in lower quantities, some overlap between these factions occasionally would be acceptable and they should play into their own faction's specialties.

I should clarify that I lost my copy of RTW a while ago and this mod is exactly the type I've always wanted to play it again, so some of my suggestions may already be in the mod, forgive me if so, and thanks for your work on this gem of a game.