Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

[Drtad]

Another article regarding Syrian mercs:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/01/m...ntl/index.html

It has been repeated many times that Azerbaijan "doesn't need" the mercs. Since they're fighting an offensive war right now, they need as many bodies as they can to overcome the defenders. Additionally, they like to put soldiers of ethnic minorities on the frontlines, which of course causes internal instability given the disproportionate number of Talysh, etc casualties, and having mercenaries means they don't have to worry about that problem as much.

Tonight's S-300 launch in Yerevan can also be a false-flag for Russia to justify its eventual involvement.

There were several Azeri drones in Kotayk province about 50 km from Yerevan.

The Turkish nationalists, especially Turanists so far seem to be dissapointed as they were certain that the superior Turkish soldier would smash the poor, weak Armenia that is on its knees in a few days.
The war has already caused a mass mobilization in Armenia and they are likely already entrenching further which makes the assault even more pointless. On the other hand, if the war was to drag for months or years, Azeris would win the attrition war but do they really have time? No if this is not pre-dealt.

In an attrition war I think Azerbaijan would have serious trouble with their minority populations (Talysh, Avar, Lezgi, etc.). They don't want to fight a war for petro-oligarchs and there is already high anti-gov sentiment.

https://tolishmedia.com/az/2020/09/22468

If today's S-300 launch in Yerevan has something to do with Russia, I reckon they'll go in soon.

Doubt it.

@ Nebaki
Also, stop glorifying war with such footages. Those are humans lives that suddenly dissapear, people who serve their nation as they see it.

Totally agree. Every life matters and such footage is horrible, no matter which side it is.

There are of course more footages but i don´t think that i need post them all here.

...

[PointOfViewGun]

So let's not claim that it doesn't exist then, how about that?

I never claimed that the reports don't exist. That statement is your invention.

[Love Mountain]

I never claimed that the reports don't exist. That statement is your invention.

Reports aren't "evidence"?

[PointOfViewGun]

Reports aren't "evidence"?

Certainly not by themselves. The reports we have seen so far are only writing claims. Contradicting ones at that.

[goro]

So this whole war is a big ad campaign for bayraktar drones. I don't see anyone else benefiting from this. Soon Armenia will send even more troops in and the war will drag on with more casualties mounting. Who is right and who is wrong. There is not a straight clear answer. I attribute this mess to the chaos of soviet union dissolution and the retarded borders they thought up. Of course this wouldn't have started if Turkey didn't get involved.

I still have doubts about the drone effectiveness though. Even from the recent videos where they show targeting crowds of soldiers you can see soldiers running away from the explosions almost unharmed even when very close to them. They work very well for propaganda though. Artillery, tanks and mortars kill tons of enemies but you can't film the actual hits unlike the drone strikes.

[PointOfViewGun]

So this whole war is a big ad campaign for bayraktar drones. I don't see anyone else benefiting from this. Soon Armenia will send even more troops in and the war will drag on with more casualties mounting. Who is right and who is wrong. There is not a straight clear answer. I attribute this mess to the chaos of soviet union dissolution and the retarded borders they thought up. Of course this wouldn't have started if Turkey didn't get involved.

I still have doubts about the drone effectiveness though. Even from the recent videos where they show targeting crowds of soldiers you can see soldiers running away from the explosions almost unharmed even when very close to them. They work very well for propaganda though. Artillery, tanks and mortars kill tons of enemies but you can't film the actual hits unlike the drone strikes.

Not really. Drones can be used as missile platforms but they are primarily used for intelligence. We can not confirm in any of the videos from Azerbaijan that the strike was conducted by the same drone filming it.

[Tureuki]

In a war of attrition, unless there is foreign intervention, Azerbaijan has all the advantage, vast majority of the country are rallied behind the cause even though there is a lot of opposition to Aliyev himself. Only a grand disaster might bring internal problems, if Aliyev can manage to hold whatever he takes, be it a few villages and hills, he will be fine. Azerbaijan also has the equipment and resources advantage. Karabagh is well fortified againts ground invasion, but if Armenians keep loosing equipment in this pace they will be seriously outgunned in a matter of a week or two perhaps. Azerbaijanis tried a quick ground invasion to avoid foreign intervention, but its proven to be problematic, terrain is harsh and defences are decades old, now they are more focused on tearing down the defences through air and artillery superiority before they try it again, we will see if time allows it.

[Nebaki]

So this whole war is a big ad campaign for bayraktar drones.

Nope Azerbaijan does not have so much drones of that manufacturer. These are IAI Harop which probably getting recorded by another IAI reconnaissance drone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LORA_(missile)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I attribute this mess to the chaos of soviet union dissolution and the retarded borders they thought up. Of course this wouldn't have started if Turkey didn't get involved.

Turkey still is not yet really involved and they don´t need do that while Iran is sending their militias and Russia is perparing for something else. There would be already a conflict in that region just google on yourself you will see the provocations from the armenian side on Azeri border which even don´t was on the region like Nagorno-Karabakh. On last recent Years it´s clearly who is the Aggressor here. They even don´t wear masks during the first appearance of the Corona Pandemic.

I still have doubts about the drone effectiveness though. Even from the recent videos where they show targeting crowds of soldiers you can see soldiers running away from the explosions almost unharmed even when very close to them. They work very well for propaganda though. Artillery, tanks and mortars kill tons of enemies but you can't film the actual hits unlike the drone strikes.

Well they fullfill their purpose and these soldiers are leaving their positions and retreating.

[Drtad]

Turkey still is not yet really involved and they don´t need do that while Iran is sending their militias and Russia is perparing for something else.

Iran is doing what now?

There would be already a conflict in that region just google on yourself you will see the provocations from the armenian side on Azeri border which even don´t was on the region like Nagorno-Karabakh. On last recent Years it´s clearly who is the Aggressor here.

??? Additionally Azeri nationalists have been attacking Armenians worldwide for the past few months - three hate crimes (burning of a church building, gunfire and vandalism at the school) in San Francisco alone.

https://www.kqed.org/arts/13886652/s...eSNtwXTBTKxql4

They even don´t wear masks during the first appearance of the Corona Pandemic.

What does that have to do with this topic. Also, a lot of people did wear masks... but some didn't wear masks... just like any other place. Are you saying that they deserve to be attacked due to the opinions of some segments of the population regarding masks? Or that they are aggressive due to the opinions of some segments of the population regarding masks? What a ridiculous notion either way.

Do me a favour and don´t quote me again

Strange request considering this is the discussion and debate section of the forum.

[PointOfViewGun]

While some might try to paint this conflict as a Armenian vs. Azeri/Turk, Christian vs. Muslim, angel vs. evil, the conflict has even larger implications. Both Turkey and Israel support Azerbaijan in some shape or form, meanwhile same is true for Iranian and Russian support for Armenia. Armenia recently called its ambassador to Israel back over military assistance Azerbaijan received from them. Why Israel supports Azerbaijan? Because a strong Azerbaijan puts a check on Iran to the north. Meanwhile, twice as many Azerbaijanis live in Iran compared to Azerbaijan's own population. Those people have been on the street protesting Iran's pro-Armenian policies for the past week or so. This is why Iran have been supporting Armenia, basically to keep Azerbaijan occupied with Armenia. It's also possible that USA is silently backing Azerbaijani group in this as it seems that Georgia cut off its airspace to Russia, likely with request from USA.

Moreover, this conflict shows how little sectarian lines of thought make sense. The only allies in this conflict that belong to the roughly same sect are Russia and Armenia. Meanwhile, a Shia theocracy is on their side. Yet, Azerbaijan is a secular Shia country, which is supported by a Jewish controlled state and a Turkey that is labeled as Sunni Islamist. The French angle is a little different one. France is pissed that Turkey is not playing ball with its every wish. Macron wants a European army free from USA's influence that is on better terms with Russia. He partners with Russia in Libya to back Haftar. He basically wants what Turkey did with the S-400 purchase but that's a different topic.

Meanwhile, Armenia, thinking that if it provokes Azerbaijan enough to take military action against it, enough international support would solidify its hold on Karabakh. Yet, the drone usage by Azerbaijan caught them by surprise. Hence, they're desperately trying to involve Turkey directly through clinging to claims like Syrian mercenary usage by Turkey or Turkish F-16s striking Armenian jets. It's been days and all that Armenia relied on were forgeries or hearsay.

Then, of course, we have international double standards. Imagine an Azeri imam holding a rifle being posted on the official Azerbaijani state Twitter account with a call to stop Armenia through faith and power. *cricket sounds*

[Vanoi]

France is definitely not cozying up to Russia. They support Haftar because of oil interests, not because they want to work with Russia.

Them not wanting American influence is classic France. France has always beem ambivalent towards NATO and they have never let go of their past as a global power.

Marcon just wants to go back to the times when France was a major power. Just like Turkey ironically.

[Vardano]

Pointof,
Do you really think that ministry of international affairs gonna post full evidence on their website? Рress secretary of the foreign ministry of Russia later confirmed that info in the press conference. (don't ask me to translate for you that press conference)

You can't link video from telegram, so I took my and have downloaded it for you and uploaded it on some hosting website while it was hot. Here is proper link for you with Macron confirming terrorists being transported to Azerbaijan from Turkey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAOz...hannel=Rappler
Don't say you don't speak French now, it has English subtitles, please don't say subtitles are incorrect.

I have questions for you. Why Aliev is not allowing any foreign press in the war zone? Why they have banned internet in their country?
Here is for you link Azerie website https://www.azerbaycan24.com/en/inte...-provocations/

More information on terrorists in Azerbaijan. This is truly last independent newspaper in Russia https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/202...payut-naemniki

Armenia has received overwhelming (my favorite word this week) support in social networks from Greece, Serbia. But now it has turned into some real help too.
Greek hackers from Anonymous Greece hacked more than 200 official websites in support of Armenia. They not only hacked, but also downloaded information from there.

[Drtad]

Meanwhile, Armenia, thinking that if it provokes Azerbaijan enough to take military action against it, enough international support would solidify its hold on Karabakh.

Lol provoking Azerbaijan, laughable.

In any case, Azerbaijan has been targeting international and local journalists doing their jobs in NK. They were able to injure 4 of them - the French reporters were treated in the Stepanakert hospital and were flown back home to France in stable condition, thankfully.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/...abakh-fighting

Of course the assistant to petro-oligarch Ilham Aliyev had this to say regarding their targeting of journalists, "Safety of journalists visiting Nagorno-Karabakh without permission is not Azerbaijan's responsibility."

https://qazet.az/en/headlines/188043/

^^It is this indifference to the value of human life by the Azeri government that has prevented a solution to this conflict from being found.

[PointOfViewGun]

Pointof,
Do you really think that ministry of international affairs gonna post full evidence on their website? Рress secretary of the foreign ministry of Russia later confirmed that info in the press conference. (don't ask me to translate for you that press conference)

You can't link video from telegram, so I took my and have downloaded it for you and uploaded it on some hosting website while it was hot. Here is proper link for you with Macron confirming terrorists being transported to Azerbaijan from Turkey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAOz...hannel=Rappler
Don't say you don't speak French now, it has English subtitles, please don't say subtitles are incorrect.

I have questions for you. Why Aliev is not allowing any foreign press in the war zone? Why they have banned internet in their country?
Here is for you link Azerie website https://www.azerbaycan24.com/en/inte...-provocations/

More information on terrorists in Azerbaijan. This is truly last independent newspaper in Russia https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/202...payut-naemniki

Armenia has received overwhelming (my favorite word this week) support in social networks from Greece, Serbia. But now it has turned into some real help too.
Greek hackers from Anonymous Greece hacked more than 200 official websites in support of Armenia. They not only hacked, but also downloaded information from there.

I see you moving away from these nations having undeniable evidence to them talking about it. Your links on Russia and USA simply did not support your initial claim. They were merely referring to claims made in various articles. They made no suggestion that they had evidence of it. I do speak French enough to not need any subtitles in that video. It's interesting that you talk about uploading the video yourself then link to one that was uploaded days ago by Rappler. He's careful with his words though. He's not saying that fighters were in Azerbaijan but that they were transported to Gaziantep to be transported to Azerbaijan. So all that he knows for certainty that men were in Gaziantep. The connection to Karabakh is his making, hence, his careful wording. I'll pass this as French support for the claims though despite your attempts to put words in mouths of official representatives of various states.

People and foreign journalists have been posting stuff on Twitter from Azerbaijan just fine. It's not possible to contain damaging information in this day and age.

Your Russian article doesn't present anything new. There is no more information in it. It merely repeats the same claims without the slightest evidence. Though it looks like the claims are concentrating on Syria now. Earlier it was Libya. Syrian rebels were sent directly to Azerbijan? No, they were sent through Gaziantep to Istanbul and then Azerbijan from Libya? No, they were sent from Syria recruited by Turkish private security company they can't make? No, they were sent from Syria recruited by recruiters of Turkish FSA groups? ... The story keeps changing yet every time its presented as the absolute truth with no evidence whatsoever.

[Vardano]

Terrorists left Turkey to reach Nagorno Karabagh, and then disappeared in the middle of nowhere, and Macron is such idiot to say this fact is very serious. It is a fact.

This what Russian Ministry said. According to incoming reports, militants from illegal armed units are being moved to the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict zone from Syria and Libya to take a direct part in the hostilities. Do you really think Russian Ministry of International Affairs would report this information not from its own military sources but rather from western newspapers? lol It is a fact.
I actually liked how you tried to twist the fact that terrorists being transported from two counties could indicate it is something misleading on my part. Good, good.

British, French, American, Russian newspapers are all against of Turkey. How sad. Poor Armenia bought them out.

What you need for conformation? Instagram stories? Check this one out. I would be glad if Arabic speaking people could comment on it. It is very likely to be city of Horadiz. There is a prove for this from Armenian sources but I don't even dare to present those.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdM1...nnel=startone1

Twitter is the only site that was not banned officially, make sense.
So what foreign journalists are reporting from warzone of Azerbaijan? Turkish ones? Foreign journalists even allowed to report from trenches on Armenian side and not a single report from the other side, why? Is there anything to hide? Thousands of dead bodies left on the battlefield and jihadists by chance could be there too?

Why would US embassy in Azerbaijan warn its citizens of possible terroristic attacks in Azerbaijan? Nothing like this for Armenia.
https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...o%20COVID%2D19.

[Nebaki]

There are footages that armenian Side is chaining their own Soldiers who wants to retreat/escape from their positions. Of course i can share the Source if someone wants it and it will be of course not from a Source like "al-jazeera" or "armenia-xxl" !

[ioannis76]

Azeri ammo depot goes kaboom.
https://twitter.com/301_AD/status/1312370598853648390

And this is from "Idlib post". It is about how Turkey is NOT transporting Syrian fighters to Azerbaijan:

[Nebaki]

Azeri ammo depot goes kaboom.
https://twitter.com/301_AD/status/1312370598853648390

And this is from "Idlib post". It is about how Turkey is NOT transporting Syrian fighters to Azerbaijan:

It´s really hard to understand how your "Sources" are tied with Azerbaijan or something that has to do with this thread.

[Vanoi]

Azeri ammo depot goes kaboom.
https://twitter.com/301_AD/status/1312370598853648390

And this is from "Idlib post". It is about how Turkey is NOT transporting Syrian fighters to Azerbaijan:

They'll continue to deny it regardless of evidence presented. Even Turkey though can't hide this forever.

[Nebaki]

They'll continue to deny it regardless of evidence presented. Even Turkey though can't hide this forever.

Can you please explain us what you are really seeing on that twitter post please? It´s like for 5-6 seconds and then we are getting surely representational Video footage of what? Even that 5-6 seconds are questionable. But please Vanoi give us your expertise of Nagorno Karabakh region aswell your understanding of that language on that twitter post.