Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

[PointOfViewGun]

I posted another source earlier from VOA where a SNA commander said the same thing.
https://www.voanews.com/extremism-wa...azerbaijan?amp
I looked up Ziad Hajj Obeid. He is in fact a rebel commander.
https://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...ial-operation-
Thats an article from 6 years ago describing Ziad Hajj Obeid and his men battling goverment forces in Aleppo.

Which is dependent on an article from Rudaw. I shouldn't need to mention the biases in there... Ziad Hajj Obeid is labeled as a military analyst residing in Turkey on June 2020.

[Vanoi]

Which is dependent on an article from Rudaw. I shouldn't need to mention the biases in there... Ziad Hajj Obeid is labeled as a military analyst residing in Turkey on June 2020.

The bias is irrelevant. Whats relevant is Ziad. And your article confirming he is a military analyst just adds weight to my argument.

Why did a former FSA commander and current military analyst say that rebels are in fact heading to Azerbaijan?

[PointOfViewGun]

The bias is irrelevant. Whats relevant is Ziad. And your article confirming he is a military analyst just adds weight to my argument.
Why did a former FSA commander and current military analyst say that rebels are in fact heading to Azerbaijan?

Of course, its irrelevant when it suits your narrative. What's also actually relevant is how we shifted from "SNA commander" to "former FSA commander" where the narrative shifted just a little bit to accommodate that very important but little difference. Carry on.

[Vanoi]

Of course, its irrelevant when it suits your narrative. What's also actually relevant is how we shifted from "SNA commander" to "former FSA commander" where the narrative shifted just a little bit to accommodate that very important but little difference. Carry on.

The VOA article claims he was an SNA commander. Since you pointed out in another article he was a military analyst i decided to refer to his last known occupation which was an FSA commander.

You did a great job of not actually addressing my post or anything about Ziad. Why did a former FSA commander and current military analyst in Turkey say that rebels are in fact heading to Azerbaijan?

Keep trying to avoid my actual argument. It shows i'm right and you don't have a single counter-argument.

[PointOfViewGun]

The VOA article claims he was an SNA commander. Since you pointed out in another article he was a military analyst i decided to refer to his last known occupation which was an FSA commander.
You did a great job of not actually addressing my post or anything about Ziad. Why did a former FSA commander and current military analyst in Turkey say that rebels are in fact heading to Azerbaijan?
Kerp trying to avoid my actual argument. It shows i'm right and you don't have a single counter-argument.

Did VoA article really said he "was" a commander with SNA? No. It refers to him as "a commander with the Turkish-backed Syrian National Army." Why you'd alter your own source like that is beyond. So, lets paraphrase your question: Why does a former commander of SNA, now a supposedly military analyst living in Turkey, with no online presence whatsoever, somehow connected to Rudaw TV, which is basically the mouthpiece of YPG, and talked about why Syrian rebels were in Azerbaijan. I don't know. I don't know why he'd say that. I don't know if he said that. But, I know that you're merely asking this question to shift the spotlight from how weak your source is.

[Vanoi]

Did VoA article really said he "was" a commander with SNA? No. It refers to him as "a commander with the Turkish-backed Syrian National Army."

The Syrian National Army, also known as the SNA? Nice try. Try that trick with someone who doesn't post in the Syrian thread.

Why you'd alter your own source like that is beyond.

Never altered my source so no need to lie.

So, lets paraphrase your question: Why does a former commander of SNA, now a supposedly military analyst living in Turkey, with no online presence whatsoever, somehow connected to Rudaw TV, which is basically the mouthpiece of YPG, and talked about why Syrian rebels were in Azerbaijan. I don't know. I don't know why he'd say that. I don't know if he said that. But, I know that you're merely asking this question to shift the spotlight from how weak your source is.

Your own source claimed he was a military analyst. Are you saying that your own source is now false? That has to be one of the most pathetic attempts i have ever seen at trying to counter my argument.

My source is fine. Unless you can prove Ziad is lying of course. I have the words of a known former rebel commander and as according to your source a military analyst in Turkey. You nothing to counter that so far.

[PointOfViewGun]

The Syrian National Army, also known as the SNA? Nice try. Try that trick with someone who doesn't post in the Syrian thread.
Never altered my source so no need to lie.

You did though since your source did not paint him as an ex-commander. You didn't before I pointed out as well. Not sure what trick you're trying to talk about to deflect though.

Your own source claimed he was a military analyst. Are you saying that your own source is now false? That has to be one of the most pathetic attempts i have ever seen at trying to counter my argument.
My source is fine. Unless you can prove Ziad is lying of course. I have the words of a known former rebel commander and as according to your source a military analyst in Turkey. You nothing to counter that so far.

My source labeling him as a military analyst doesn't contradict what I said. You seem to be grasping at straws here.

[Vanoi]

You did though since your source did not paint him as an ex-commander. You didn't before I pointed out as well. Not sure what trick you're trying to talk about to deflect though.

I already explained that earlier. I never once said he was a former SNA commander. I referred to his time in 2014 commanding the FSA. The FSA of 2014 is not the SNA of 2020. Since your article claims he is a military analyst i referred to him as just that. But i can call him an SNA commander too if you want. It'll make my argument stronger than it already is.

My source labeling him as a military analyst doesn't contradict what I said. You seem to be grasping at straws here.

What you said doesn't counter my argument though. You focused own my source and continue to ignore Ziad.

In fact you directly said you don't know why he said it. Indicating you don't have any counter to what Ziad said.

Ziad being a former military commander and military analyst in Turkey itself is a great evidence rebel involvement in Azerbaijan. I await for your actual counter argument.

[PointOfViewGun]

I already explained that earlier. I never once said he was a former SNA commander. I referred to his time in 2014 commanding the FSA. The FSA of 2014 is not the SNA of 2020. Since your article claims he is a military analyst i referred to him as just that. But i can call him an SNA commander too if you want. It'll make my argument stronger than it already is.
What you said doesn't counter my argument though. You focused own my source and continue to ignore Ziad.
In fact you directly said you don't know why he said it. Indicating you don't have any counter to what Ziad said.
Ziad being a former military commander and military analyst in Turkey itself is a great evidence rebel involvement in Azerbaijan. I await for your actual counter argument.

Nice mental gymnastics. We've exposed them enough at this point. Cling to him all you want. It's a shame how basic principles and standards are trampled when blaming Turkey is involved.

[Vanoi]

Nice mental gymnastics. We've exposed them enough at this point. Cling to him all you want. It's a shame how basic principles and standards are trampled when blaming Turkey is involved.

Yes you exposed him as a military analyst in Turkey

Like i said. Come talk to me when you get a real counter argument here instead of your pathetic attempts to distract from Ziad.

[Aexodus]

It is appreciated that there may be strong feelings on the topic, but you are still required to not repeat the same arguments as per mudpit rules. If this continues, such posts will be considered as defiance and dealt with appropriately.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Wrong Armenia invaded these territory thats why it´s been showed off as disputed but some people are like to interprete the view of both side and not someones likes on this Thread.

Azerbaijan didn't even control Baku until the Ottoman empire helped them take it. Either way, both Azerbaijan and Armenia declared independence on the same day and borders were fuzzy early on.

Someone else already came with that against my person in this Thread, how it comes now you teamed up? In case of Southern Azerbaijan:

http://gamoh.org/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijan_(Iran)

No, I didn't ask you to explain what Iranian Azerbaijan is, I asked when and how Iran "occupied" it. Your own words, not a wikipedia article.
I'm not teaming up on you, but clearly you do not know the circumstances that led to Iran owning that territory today. It certainly wasn't occupation.

[Love Mountain]

Why should Azerbaijan risk his legitimate recognized right over his own territory by doing something like that? Of course they would say no. But how it comes Armenia is welcoming any support from Iran.

Because it wants to win? Duh.

Reasons why Azerbaijan does not need any kind of irregular militia support:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It really does not look like that they are the side here which is lacking any kind of Military Resources.

It's not about lacking military hardware. It's about sending boots on the ground to secure territory.

Nearly two Months ago Armenia provocated and attacked intentionally in the northern Tavush region Azerbaijan which is clearly not Nagorno-Karabakh region. Even this shows how Armenia is trying to imply as victim while it is clearly here the provocative actor.


Source:

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1282317478824235008
https://ria.ru/20200713/1574261112.html

We had on a different Topic a discussion about that Issue and some known guys are blaming how incompetent Azeri-Turkish Military was because of the losses on Azeri Side on a region which even not be considered as a Hot-Zone from Azeri-Turkish view. So please don´t came up with the idea and blame the Azeri Side as provocative your posts are still around there.



If you have zero clue about the History of Azerbaijan + modern Armenia and how they got founded or even their young History under the Soviet Union then i should be careful with such a behaviour which you are presenting in this Thread.

I'm not the most informed person about this conflict, but it's pretty easy to sniff through blatant propaganda like this.

If they advance in they'll take heavy losses. From what i have read its mostly Azeris and Armenians shooting at each other with rockets, drones, artillery, and aircraft.

To me at least if the Azeris wanted to break through they could simply keep hitting and softening up Armenian positions so Azeri forces could advance. And right now the Armenians are having a ton of trouble even dealing with the drones.

Takes a lot of ordnance to dislodge entrenched infantry. Syria taught us that. Armenia has the defender's advantage.

[Tureuki]

-Azerbaijan is a Shia dominated country with a relatively secular nature, Azerbaijanis, without a doubt would prefer sending their own sons to the battle rather than welcoming Arab speaking Sunni militants. Azerbaijan, with its militaristic indoctrination, does not needs alien boots on ground, people welcome the casualties as martyries. The SNA militants aren't really famous as a disciplined reliable force anyway.

-As far as i see, there have been zero visual proof revealed for the presence of Syrian militants on Azerbaijani soil. All i have ever seen are debunked photoshopped photos and one airplane photo from which we can't determinate the destination(it could be Libya).

-The early reaction from SNA officials wasn't only denial but if i remember correctly, they also forbid their militants from any attempt of going to Azerbaijan, which likely means that the whole claim stemmed from some elements of SNA wanting to go Azerbaijan, they hoped it would turn out like Libya and Turkey would send them there.

-SNA isn't an internationally recognized terrorist organization, they aren't even salafists anymore on the contrary to what people try to depict them as, they are just money greedy mercenaries, that's it.

If it gets proven one day, i will wholeheartedly condemn it, until that day, it's a well organized propaganda, nothing more.

[PointOfViewGun]

-Azerbaijan is a Shia dominated country with a relatively secular nature, Azerbaijanis, without a doubt would prefer sending their own sons to the battle rather than welcoming Arab speaking Sunni militants. Azerbaijan, with its militaristic indoctrination, does not needs alien boots on ground, people welcome the casualties as martyries. The SNA militants aren't really famous as a disciplined reliable force anyway.

-As far as i see, there have been zero visual proof revealed for the presence of Syrian militants on Azerbaijani soil. All i have ever seen are debunked photoshopped photos and one airplane photo from which we can't determinate the destination(it could be Libya).

-The early reaction from SNA officials wasn't only denial but if i remember correctly, they also forbid their militants from any attempt of going to Azerbaijan, which likely means that the whole claim stemmed from some elements of SNA wanting to go Azerbaijan, they hoped it would turn out like Libya and Turkey would send them there.

-SNA isn't an internationally recognized terrorist organization, they aren't even salafists anymore on the contrary to what people try to depict them as, they are just money greedy mercenaries, that's it.

If it gets proven one day, i will wholeheartedly condemn it, until that day, it's a well organized propaganda, nothing more.

It's a running propaganda piece that exposes anti-Turkish sentiment throughout the globe as news agencies clings to weak claims like its gospel. First a video was claimed to be showing Syrian rebels in Azerbaijan in dirty pickup trucks. This made little sense as Turkey could only move them through Iran or Georgia. Neither country would allow them. Then it was Syrian rebels from Libya being flied to the farthest civilian airport from the front lines in Azerbaijan. Then it was a Syrian rebel commander making the same claim though that turned out to be an ex commander that lives in Turkey that was at best commenting why Syrian rebels would want to take part in the recent conflict. Now its a Turkish private security firm enlisting random Syrians where we don't even have a name for the company enlisting them. So far there is no evidence whatsoever to back any of the claims, hence, we have Armenians using forged photos online. Use of this claim is basically a litmus test.

[Vanoi]

There's evidence, you guys just don't accept it or brush it off. Multiple countries now including France and Russia both are now accusing Turkey of sending militants to Azerbaijan. Feel free to deny but no one else believes it.

[Nebaki]

Azerbaijan didn't even control Baku until the Ottoman empire helped them take it. Either way, both Azerbaijan and Armenia declared independence on the same day and borders were fuzzy early on.

Where is your starting point here even? I don´t want to repeat myself you already got your reply on the previous sides. There was one fuzzy early borders and these just belong to the armenians which they decleared by themselve of their foolish delusional actions by the support of the France.

No, I didn't ask you to explain what Iranian Azerbaijan is, I asked when and how Iran "occupied" it. Your own words, not a wikipedia article.
I'm not teaming up on you, but clearly you do not know the circumstances that led to Iran owning that territory today. It certainly wasn't occupation.

After the retreat of the Soviet Troops from that Region it was and before there was a Russo-Persian War while on the same timeline there was a Russo-Turkish war or even Border disputes. It is a little bit controversial when more Azeris are living in Iran then Azerbaijan.

While Iranians even call them Turks and not even Azeris. There is also a turkish/turkic backround in Iranian History as you know, we didn´t came from Europe to Minor Asia. Aswell there was also some Royal families with turkic backround in Iran or on their Leadership. Of course this all changed after the Revolution.

now including France and Russia both are now accusing Turkey of sending militants to Azerbaijan.

Well both them are have huge armenian Diaspora and anybody knows about the French failure in their former old African Colonies. Russia even back a few years ago blamed themselve while their own general staff was presenting a Video about how Turkey was buying Oil from Isis (The Trucks was even empty...).

Love this double moral how nobody even mentions that armenians teamed up with iranian Hezbollah and already dig digging. So we got here an Catholic-Orthodox-Shia Alliance versus Soft-Sunnah/Shia-Hebrew Alliance?

[Tureuki]

There's evidence, you guys just don't accept it or brush it off. Multiple countries now including France and Russia both are now accusing Turkey of sending militants to Azerbaijan. Feel free to deny but no one else believes it.

Selfies of bearded militants on unidentifiable locations is not evidence, neither the stance of third parties. This is like a court accepting a third party with whom i had a fist fight earlier in a seperate occasion as a witness in my case.

If i see evidence, i won't mind acknowlodging it. I was never a big fan of the foreign policies of AKP anyway.

[Vanoi]

Selfies of bearded militants on unidentifiable locations is not evidence, neither the stance of third parties. This is like a court accepting a third party with whom i had a fist fight earlier in a seperate occasion as a witness in my case.

If i see evidence, i won't mind acknowlodging it. I was never a big fan of the foreign policies of AKP anyway.

I posted evidence on the previous page from a former FSA commander and current military analyst in Turkey. No selfies needed.

I'm not going to take up a whole page again over this. Like i said feel free to deny it.

[Nebaki]

A new footage of the "so-called-paperworks-destruction" from Azeri Armed Forces:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Remember all of these are "Paper"