Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Having read the peace deal in Russian (I am fluent), it makes no mention of NKAO proper being given to Azeri control. It talks about the cession of non-NKAO regions by december and the establishment of a safe corridor in the Lachin Rayon between Armenia and NKAO that would be monitored by Russian troops and equally an establishment of a safe route between Azerbaijan proper and Nakhichevan. To me it seems more like either Artsakh will become an exclave of Armenia or maintain its independence for the time being until its status is resolved.

[PointOfViewGun]

I can't see where in Aliyev's statements he refers to the status of the enclave as being completely Azerbaijani.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

My post was meant as a reply to Tureuki, I must have forgotten to quote him. He stated that Armenia would hand over the territory in exchange for autonomy, which is false.

[PointOfViewGun]

My post was meant as a reply to Tureuki, I must have forgotten to quote him. He stated that Armenia would hand over the territory in exchange for autonomy, which is false.

Mine was too. Relax.

[Tureuki]

I can't see where in Aliyev's statements he refers to the status of the enclave as being completely Azerbaijani.

He actually denied any kind of a special status, said the possibility of a status went into depths of hell now and laughed about it too, unless the video i watched was from an old speech? I don't think so, but i feel to lazy to dig for it now, you can look up to his speech from yesterday.

Anyway, area shall certainly not become an exclave of Armenia, Azerbaijan would never agree to officially make it a part of Armenia, i'm guessing at the end of negatiations the corpse of now dispersed Rep of Artsakh will now continue to exist as an autonomous area of Azerbaijan in a much smaller scale with almost no power, basically a source of justification for Russian presence.

[Gromovnik]

This is a fine example how terrorism pays off.

[Nebaki]

This is a fine example how terrorism pays off.

Explain yourself

... basically a source of justification for Russian presence.

Now Nagorno Karabakh is somehow in Russian grace.

[Love Mountain]

This is a fine example how terrorism pays off.

Might always makes right.

[PointOfViewGun]

Might always makes right.

We clearly see that to be false since even after Azerbaijan taking back its own legal territory its still treated as the aggressor.

[conon394]

We clearly see that to be false since even after Azerbaijan taking back its own legal territory its still treated as the aggressor.

Although that is a bit of weak argument out of the mess of former USSR internal borders.

[PointOfViewGun]

Although that is a bit of weak argument out of the mess of former USSR internal borders.

Maybe for Nagorno-Karabakh lands, but not for the non-NK lands which make up the large majority of the Armenian occupied lands of Azerbaijan. This was the situation before the war:



The displacement of civilians that was caused by Armenian occupation of non-NK Azerbaijani lands dwarfs the number of people that fled Nagorno-Karabakh recently. If the roles were reversed it wouldn't be far fetched to see French boots on Nagorno-Karabakh with USA imposing a no-fly zone.

[Love Mountain]

Once land has been out of your control for over a generation, it ceases to become "your" land. It's irredentist nonsense, not a legitimate grievance.

[Gromovnik]

All of that land is the historic homeland of the Armenian people, going back thousands of years.

[antaeus]

This was the situation before the war:

You know that there was no 'before the war'. I don't need to tell you this. The war didn't spring up over night, it was already in motion in the late 1980s before the end of the Soviet Union. As was the dispute over borders. It played out for decades and was a cause for unrest.

But carry on.

[PointOfViewGun]

Once land has been out of your control for over a generation, it ceases to become "your" land. It's irredentist nonsense, not a legitimate grievance.

Who decided that "over a generation" criteria?

You know that there was no 'before the war'. I don't need to tell you this. The war didn't spring up over night, it was already in motion in the late 1980s before the end of the Soviet Union. As was the dispute over borders. It played out for decades and was a cause for unrest.

But carry on.

A petty thing to point out against what I pointed out but sure.

[Tureuki]

Once land has been out of your control for over a generation, it ceases to become "your" land. It's irredentist nonsense, not a legitimate grievance.

A great deal of Azerbaijanis were born on occupied lands, not some 80 years old grandpas either, many are quite young people, this has not happened a century ago, several of the commanders who led this campaign were natives of that land. Colonel Shukur Hamidov was a native of Qubadli, he died in this campaign in guess where, Qubadli.

[Love Mountain]

Who decided that "over a generation" criteria?

The same people who arbitrarily decided to go to war, as if this was about anything materially important.

A petty thing to point out against what I pointed out but sure.

Lmao, the nature of this entire conflict is petty. It's equivalent to trying to get the last word in on a political forum of grand-strategy game. But it's good to see that young Azeris and Armenians are more concerned with national pride and glory, rather than the pathetic state of their economies and political establishment.

A great deal of Azerbaijanis were born on occupied lands, not some 80 years old grandpas either, many are quite young people, this has not happened a century ago, several of the commanders who led this campaign were natives of that land. Colonel Shukur Hamidov was a native of Qubadli, he died in this campaign in guess where, Qubadli.

The war was over in 95'. A generation of Azerbaijanis who were born there, haven't seen their land for almost 30 years. Their homes are gone, their roots are gone. Common sense would dictate moving on with your lives.

[PointOfViewGun]

The same people who arbitrarily decided to go to war, as if this was about anything materially important.

That's a lousy parallel that doesn't really make sense.

Lmao, the nature of this entire conflict is petty. It's equivalent to trying to get the last word in on a political forum of grand-strategy game. But it's good to see that young Azeris and Armenians are more concerned with national pride and glory, rather than the pathetic state of their economies and political establishment.

You're projecting and you're doing it very badly.

[antaeus]

A petty thing to point out against what I pointed out but sure.

So you get to continue to justify the present military response based upon the 1990s, but I don't get to say that the 1990s was not a resolved situation, but a continuation of previous conflict and dispute?

I'm not sure I'm the petty one. I'm not the one continuing to accuse multiple posters of projecting over and over.

There is no right or wrong here. Just an endless cycle. You've picked a side and set yourself an arbitrary time frame for discussion that legitimises your side's perspective.

[Sarkiss]

Having read the peace deal in Russian (I am fluent), it makes no mention of NKAO proper being given to Azeri control. It talks about the cession of non-NKAO regions by december and the establishment of a safe corridor in the Lachin Rayon between Armenia and NKAO that would be monitored by Russian troops and equally an establishment of a safe route between Azerbaijan proper and Nakhichevan. To me it seems more like either Artsakh will become an exclave of Armenia or maintain its independence for the time being until its status is resolved.

agreed. Pashinian himself states that it is by and large an armistice, not a final resolution. status of Artsakh, or what remains of it, is still to be determined, so nothing has been resolved with regards to the former autonomous region itself. hence lots of room for Russia to pull strings, 'punish' and 'reward' the Azeries and Armenians as it sees fit. so we've probably seen the peak of azeri-turkish 'honeymoon' and they will now cosy up to Russia instead for a favorable outcome of upcoming negotiations and to have its peacekeepers removed, something the Russians are usually rather reluctant to do.