Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

[PointOfViewGun]

Sigh... I'm not surprised that you're trying to muddy the waters on Armenian shelling of civilian infrastructure. First the photo was deleted because it featured a Turkish soldier, despite Azerbaijan and Turkey having an open alliance, then it was dowgraded to being a Gray Wolves member, because wolf symbol? OK. Keep that up. That article you were referring to that is somehow deleted was referring to the same source

Meanwhile, here is a map of Armenian strikes on Azerbaijani lands:

[dogukan]

Until now I was skeptical about the Syrian mercenaries thing, but it seems to have been confirmed.
There had been various reports that came out of Syria including transportation of dead bodies back through Kilis.
The combat footage where a Syrian was talking about Armenians butchering them also seems to have been geolocated.
On top of that, the Islamist newspaper Yeniakit proudly published how the Syrian National Army was participating in the Armenian war, quoting their commander's words.

Turkey's exportation of jihadis is a very dangerous act, a thing that would never have been expected from the Turkey of a prior decade. We are now dangerously closed to being an aggressive militarist terror exporter country. Some in the West are starting go as far as saying Turkey is becoming a new Iraq.


I am highly oppositional to Turkey's act in many areas as a citizen of the country, and I always tried to be realistic in my opposition. I would not have gone as far as these claims a few years back, but now it is slowly becoming more and more a reality.

[ioannis76]

The so called Smerch missile attack on the Mingachevir energy block turns out to be a staged Azeri piece of fake news:
https://twitter.com/Zinvor/status/13...069189/photo/1

Drilled asphalt, and a piece of wood to hold the "missile" in place.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Sigh... I'm not surprised that you're trying to muddy the waters on Armenian shelling of civilian infrastructure.

I have to ask: do you also condemn Azerbaijan's shelling of civilians, such as seen in this video?

The so called Smerch missile attack on the Mingachevir energy block turns out to be a staged Azeri piece of fake news:

Drilled asphalt, and a piece of wood to hold the "missile" in place.

That piece of wood clearly came with the missile!

[PointOfViewGun]

I have to ask: do you also condemn Azerbaijan's shelling of civilians, such as seen in this video?

Absolutely. They should be investigated. However, they're rare enough to be accidental, but, common enough to be concerning. There is no point for Azerbaijan to use such attacks. Is there a reason why you're singling me out?

[nhytgbvfeco2]

There is no point for Azerbaijan to use such attacks.

Why is that?

Is there a reason why you're singling me out?

Because as far as I've seen 4 people on this thread support Azerbaijan's side: You, Tureuki, Anna and Nebaki. I have little doubt that Tureuki would condemn it, Anna's post would be deleted, and I highly doubt Nebaki's answer would be coherent enough for me to understand it.

[Tureuki]

Both sides have no reason to deliberately inflict civilian casualties, but both sides, undoubtedly, done it so far. I think they are trying to hit high profile targets and regrouping areas, but, those are towns, it is hard to miss the civilians.

Azerbaijan should avoid civilian casualties as much as it can, and should officially guarentee the safety of local Armenians after a take over, otherwise it will be a messy victory that will breed new problems.

[PointOfViewGun]

Why is that?

What point would there be to have a few such strikes? They serve no purpose other than to make Azerbaijan look bad. They serve no military or political purpose.

Because as far as I've seen 4 people on this thread support Azerbaijan's side: You, Tureuki, Anna and Nebaki. I have little doubt that Tureuki would condemn it, Anna's post would be deleted, and I highly doubt Nebaki's answer would be coherent enough for me to understand it.

There are more than those in this thread. Why you haven't asked anyone if they would condemn Armenian shelling of civilian areas?

[Drtad]

Absolutely. They should be investigated. However, they're rare enough to be accidental, but, common enough to be concerning.

There is nothing to "investigate." Regarding their rarity - they just pummeled Stepanakert's residential areas with missiles and internationally banned cluster munitions all day.

https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/status/1312857008740151303

There is no point for Azerbaijan to use such attacks.

I think the point is clear to any objective observer.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

What point would there be to have a few such strikes? They serve no purpose other than to make Azerbaijan look bad. They serve no military or political purpose.

Perhaps an attempt to cause the civilian population to flee, to avoid having to resort to ethnic cleansing in the event of a victory.

There are more than those in this thread. Why you haven't asked anyone if they would condemn Armenian shelling of civilian areas?

If there are then I haven't seen them, or they aren't particularly active in the discussion.
Considering I support the Armenian side in this conflict it would be somewhat counter productive of me to ask people to condemn Armenia, wouldn't you say?

[PointOfViewGun]

Perhaps an attempt to cause the civilian population to flee, to avoid having to resort to ethnic cleansing in the event of a victory.

With such rarity? It wouldn't be effective, especially for people so entrenched in the region for so long. These people have been brainwashed to believe Turks are out there to inflict genocide on them. The Armenian prime minister is already claiming that Turks are coming to finish the genocide... Most of the incidents involving civilians in Karabakh have been around military targets and looks to be isolated incidents.

If there are then I haven't seen them, or they aren't particularly active in the discussion.
Considering I support the Armenian side in this conflict it would be somewhat counter productive of me to ask people to condemn Armenia, wouldn't you say?

Come again? You haven't seen? Amazing optics. You're basically telling me that just because you made up your mind about Armenian you will ignore any negative point about them. Then you come to question my standards. Amazing.

There is nothing to "investigate." Regarding their rarity - they just pummeled Stepanakert's residential areas with missiles and internationally banned cluster munitions all day.
https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/status/1312857008740151303
I think the point is clear to any objective observer.

Amazing display of selective reading. The video on the tweet is able to showcase only 3 examples of strikes. Only one is visible to be fallen on a civilian building. Meanwhile, the article in the link paints a more balanced story as it mentions Armenian attacks in addition to Azerbaijani ones.

Nagorno-Karabakh conflict: Major cities hit as heavy fighting continues

Azerbaijan's second-largest city, Ganja, has been shelled by Armenian forces, as heavy clashes continue over the disputed Nagorno-Karabakh enclave.

'Casualties all over Ganja'

For the more than 330,000 residents of Ganja, this morning brought horror - the city was being shelled by forces fighting for Armenia.

"We heard a big explosion. It was shocking and dreadful. Children were scared," one resident told us. "We left our apartment and went to a shelter."

A nurse in one of the main hospitals said several injured civilians had been brought in.

"My husband saw the body of a woman in a pool of blood. There are casualties all over the city," she said.

Separatists in Nagorno-Karabakh have urged residents of major Azerbaijani cities to leave, warning that military sites there are now legitimate targets.

[Drtad]

Regarding Azerbaijan's use of cluster munitions on the civilian population:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ne...cluster-bombs/

[nhytgbvfeco2]

With such rarity? It wouldn't be effective, especially for people so entrenched in the region for so long. These people have been brainwashed to believe Turks are out there to inflict genocide on them. The Armenian prime minister is already claiming that Turks are coming to finish the genocide... Most of the incidents involving civilians in Karabakh have been around military targets and looks to be isolated incidents.

The video linked by another user clearly shows civilians fleeing due to Azeri bombings.

Come again? You haven't seen? Amazing optics. You're basically telling me that just because you made up your mind about Armenian you will ignore any negative point about them. Then you come to question my standards. Amazing.

You wholly misunderstood my post. The first line ("If there are then I haven't seen them, or they aren't particularly active in the discussion.") was in reply to "There are more than those in this thread". As in, I haven't seen other posters supporting Azerbaijan. Not that I haven't seen bombings.
I thought that would have been clear considering bombings of civilian areas don't tend to be active participants in discussions.

[Vardano]

I want to tell a little unique story about people of Artsakh (Nagorno Karabagh) to explain what kind of men have lived there and live today. It should explain why Armenian military traditions are exceptional and more.

During the Second World War, 1,250 people went to the war from the village of Chardakhlu, Artsakh, two of whom became marshals, 12 - generals, 57 - colonels, 157 - senior officers, seven of whom are heroes of the USSR. Among the outstanding military figures, first of all, it is necessary to note Marshals Ivan Baghramyan and Amazasp Babajanyan.

There were only three admirals of high ranks in USSR during the WW2 and one of them was from Artsakh - Ivan Isakov (Hovhannes Ter-Isahakyan).

“After the war, in honor of the perished fellow villagers, a memorial of the Guardian Mother was erected in Chardakhlu, and next to the memorial there was a museum of“ Military and Labor Glory ”, which kept the accessories and materials of the village commanders. However, in 1988, after the Karabakh conflict, the Armenian population of the Chardakhlu village was deported, and all monuments, museums, schools and temples were destroyed”.

One can wonder why Azerbaijani would destroy monuments of men which helped them to win in the WW2... Why would you destroy something which is "yours" and are in your "historical" land?




One Jewish journalist made interesting comparison of Arab-Israeli war of 1973 and the current conflict. There were massive attacks in the first two days back then and it is similar of what happened in Artsakh, after 7 days of war when Arabs have realized that they can't win, they have started to bomb civilian objects in Israel, same thing is happening now. After counter attacks Israel managed to get 20% more territories compared to what it had prior to the conflict. And no need to rule out this can't happen too.

The President of Israel have talked to President of Armenia and stated that the relations between Israel and Azerbaijan are not directed against anyone.
Israel, possibly in two or three days, will stop supplying arms to Azerbaijan: Armenian Ambassador to Israel Armen Smbatyan

[Nebaki]

It should not be ignored that the roots of the problem began in the 18th century. When the Russian tsarist powers began massive resettlements of Armenians in the Azerbaijani territories, expelling the ethnic Azerbaijani population, overall, the relocation of the Armenians to Azerbaijan, especially to Karabakh, and the expulsion of Azerbaijani from their areas proceed as follows: 1790, 1854- In 1856 and 1877-1878 Azerbaijanis left the Transcaucasian principalities to which Armenians were resettled.



After Azerbaijan was annexed to the USSR, the deportations of Azerbaijanis from the Armenian SSR and Nagorno-Karabakh began from 1948-1953. This was suggested by the nationalist Armenian government circles in order to "liberate" Armenia from Azerbaijanis and thus to create a mono-national republic. A total of 150,000 Azerbaijanis were displaced from their historical areas in the period 1948-1953. Armenian terrorism began in 1984. The Khojaly genocide took place on February 25-26, 1992. The Azerbaijani settlement of Khojaly was completely destroyed, 613 people from the peaceful population, including 63 young children and 106 women, were horribly murdered, and 487 people were disabled or captured.

A total of 1,275 inhabitants of the settlement - mostly elderly, women and children - became victims of torture and murder, making Armenia and Russia one of the grossest violations of martial law in the Karabakh War.

On to the consequences of the war:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

As a result of the Armenian war of aggression with the military assistance of Russia, the following areas were occupied by Azerbaijan: Nagorno-Karabakh, Kelbajar (April 2, 1993), Fizuli (August 23, 1993), Gubadli (August 31, 1993), Jabrayil (August 23, 1993 ), Latchin (May 18, 1992), Zangilan (October 29, 1993) and Agdam (July 23, 1993). This means that 20% of Azerbaijani territory is illegally under occupation. From 1987-1988 there was a wave of Azerbaijani refugees from Armenia amounting to 250,000-300,000 people. The currently occupied areas in Azerbaijan give a total of 660,000-800,000 Internationally Displaced Persons (IDPs) (including 100,000 IDPs from the areas along the border with Armenia and the line of occupation). The total number of Azerbaijani refugees and IDPs is 1,010,000 - 1,200,000. Therefore one should think about why there are more Armenians than Azerbaijanis living there.

The fact of the Armenian military intervention (military aggression) in Azerbaijan is also proven internationally.

Source:

Detailed information on the military intervention of Armenia in Azerbaijan, among others, is available. the Helsinki Human Rights Watch report - Seven Years of Conflict in Azerbaijan, the Atkinson report to the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, the statement by UN Secretary-General Boutros Ghali and SR Resolution 884.

The President of Israel have talked to President of Armenia and stated that the relations between Israel and Azerbaijan are not directed against anyone.
Israel, possibly in two or three days, will stop supplying arms to Azerbaijan: Armenian Ambassador to Israel Armen Smbatyan

The Source of this claim where? btw Orbiter 1K is not made 1 Day like from a 3D-Printer to be supplied:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Source: https://aeronautics-sys.com/home-pag...biter-1k-muas/

There you got your "terrorists" a loiter munition platform which lands on your Head with best wishes from Azerbaijan feat. Israel.

[goro]

Khojaly genocide he says . Go check turkish history to see definition of genocide. Also your post is so one sided, even if the facts you posted are correct the fact that you didn't even bother to mention that there were similar massive displacements of Armenians from Azerbaijan, makes your post just propaganda. Reminds me of Turkish news articles

[Nebaki]

makes your post just propaganda. Reminds me of Turkish news articles

You mean like these ones from Greece or Armenia which make claims like without their effort the Allies would lose World War II? But Irony off please enlight us about these "similar massive displacements" on which you made your Ph.D. degree.

[goro]

https://www.hrw.org/reports/1995/communal/
The same human rights watch source you used. As i said you choose only the azeri parts and don't mention any killings or displacements of armenian population.Usual propaganda trick to make one side look angels and the others evil. I'm not going to pick the armenian parts for you , go read the Armenia Azerbaijan part where it states the crap both sides did. The source you yourself used, states perfectly clear that both sides removed ethnic populations and attacked civilian targets and this whole conflict is a cycle of vengeance.

[Nebaki]

The same human rights watch source you used. As i said you choose only the azeri parts and don't mention any killings or displacements of armenian population.Usual propaganda trick to make one side look angels and the others evil. I'm not going to pick the armenian parts for you , go read the Armenia Azerbaijan part where it states the crap both sides did. The source you yourself used, states perfectly clear that both sides removed ethnic populations and attacked civilian targets and this whole conflict is a cycle of vengeance.

I did not just used one Source, beside that i don´t even need to mention that when since first on this Threads are already someone is taking serious steps for armenian Propaganda under this Thread while ignoring totally the part of Azerbaijan. But as you said trick to make one side look angels and the others evi.

[goro]

Because others are making propaganda you have to make propaganda then . Glad you cleared that out.