Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

[Tureuki]

https://twitter.com/amirafshar135/st...72621134643207

"Russians, Armenians, Persians, enemies of Azerbaijan"

There seems to be sizeable opposition to Iran's stance in Iranian Azerbaijan, its surprising that they dare to take the streets, the control of regime over ethnic minorities is extremely tight, a friend of mine would say that disguised policemen would be all around the stadium during the matches of Traxtor(famous football club based in Tabriz) to carefully note down anyone who dares to go beyond what is allowed by the authorities regarding their ethnic pride.

[Nebaki]

Let´s hope that this awakening is strong enough to break the "Mullah" influence in that Region.

[Vardano]

Moscow, Washington, Paris all have confirmed that they undeniable evidence that Turkey transported terrorists to Azerbaijan.

Cavasoglu just stated Turkey wants fighting to stop. There is only reason for him to say, since yesterday there were complete different rhetoric from Ankara, Aliev had another war fiasco and they can't get any "old Azerbajani" territory back.
Armenian troops actually advanced forward today and captured two fortified posts (obviously its on the video).

The article I posted earlier can be found on main BBC website.

There are 200 reporters from all over the world in Artsakh, they even allowed to shoot video in the trenches. Armenia has nothing to hide. Unfortunately journalist of Le Monde was badly inquired after being attacked by UAV in the Stepanakert. The internet in Azerbaijan is blocked and international journalists are not not seen there, except of Turkish ones of course.

There are a lot minorities live in Azerbaijan. All this minorities don't want to fight for dictator Aliev. It has been reported many times that Azeries putting these poor people in the first line of attack. Talish people are one of them, they refuse to go to war and right now there is big riot in the Lenkoran.

[PointOfViewGun]

Moscow, Washington, Paris all have confirmed that they undeniable evidence that Turkey transported terrorists to Azerbaijan.

[Nebaki]

The article I posted earlier can be found on main BBC website.

You mean "BBC Arabic" ?

There are 200 reporters from all over the world in Artsakh, they even allowed to shoot video in the trenches. Armenia has nothing to hide. Unfortunately journalist of Le Monde was badly inquired after being attacked by UAV in the Stepanakert. The internet in Azerbaijan is blocked and international journalists are not not seen there, except of Turkish ones of course.

There are a lot minorities live in Azerbaijan. All this minorities don't want to fight for dictator Aliev. It has been reported many times that Azeries putting these poor people in the first line of attack.

Journalists in "Trenches" and "minorities" in Azerbaijan....you mean these ones which get massacred in Nagorno Karabakh and forced to leave their Homes which the so-called "armenian State" still occupying? Btw Drones are not minorities.

[Vardano]

Official website of Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia.
https://www.mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy...nguageId=en_GB

Macron.
Video in French. https://filebin.net/i4rtbvhxtwcw6qza/__.MOV?t=kz517u0p
"We have accurate information that indicates that Syrian militants have left the battlefield in Gaziantep (a province in southern Turkey) to join the fighting in Karabakh. This is very serious. We will discuss it here at the summit in the coming hours." Macron said.

On Pentagon source, it was said on Sky News Arabia and then reported further. Will provide the link when I have it.

[PointOfViewGun]

Official website of Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia.
https://www.mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy...nguageId=en_GB

This is not a confirmation nor a statement involving evidence. It's merely pointing at reports that have been posted in this thread.

Macron.
Video in French. https://filebin.net/i4rtbvhxtwcw6qza/__.MOV?t=kz517u0p
"We have accurate information that indicates that Syrian militants have left the battlefield in Gaziantep (a province in southern Turkey) to join the fighting in Karabakh. This is very serious. We will discuss it here at the summit in the coming hours." Macron said.

Not gonna download anything from a random website. Feel free to share an actual source.

On Pentagon source, it was said on Sky News Arabia and then reported further. Will provide the link when I have it.

A Pentagon sources don't go on Sky News as an exclusive. Please find a proper source.

[Drtad]

Where is your starting point here even? I don´t want to repeat myself you already got your reply on the previous sides. There was one fuzzy early borders and these just belong to the armenians which they decleared by themselve of their foolish delusional actions by the support of the France.

Lol "declared by themselves" aka the right to self-determination. You claimed earlier that "Armenia invaded those regions" (Syunik, Nakhichevan, Karabakh) when in fact the Armenian populations themselves were defending themselves - the Republic of Armenia was not involved in any "invasion" of those territories. They also never received any French support in those regions. But this is off-topic in any case.

While Iranians even call them Turks and not even Azeris. There is also a turkish/turkic backround in Iranian History as you know, we didn´t came from Europe to Minor Asia. Aswell there was also some Royal families with turkic backround in Iran or on their Leadership. Of course this all changed after the Revolution.

Yes the Qajars have a Turkic background - therefore all of Iran should belong to Azerbaijan and Turkey right?...

Well both them are have huge armenian Diaspora and anybody knows about the French failure in their former old African Colonies. Russia even back a few years ago blamed themselve while their own general staff was presenting a Video about how Turkey was buying Oil from Isis (The Trucks was even empty...).

Yeees of course, only countries that don't have Armenian communities are trustworthy of course...

I think it's clear which side wants war and which side wants peace. Celebrating destruction (which has happened multiple times in this thread) is horrible. The people of NK will not let themselves be massacred, I think that's clear.

[Heathen Hammer]

Reuters also reports that France confirmed that Turkey was sending Syrian jihadists to fight on Azeri side in Karabakh conflict.
It seems Erdogan really has some kind of napoleonic complex, ironically his neo-ottoman tantrums are essentially creating an alliance against him - Greece, Russia, Syria and now Armenia as well.

[Nebaki]

@Drtad we already know your Pro-Armenian Side since your first reply on this Topic but it´s funny to see how you are trying to counter it. I love how you even ignoring the massacres that are made on Azeri-victims by the armenian Side and their evictions from there Houses. Some of them happened under Soviet Rule and some of them even after it but it was always an armenian which was doing it.

Do me a favour and don´t quote me again i will do same on your replies, but don´t spread some lies from funny Sources which even repeat themselve by the same Video materials.

Reuters also reports that France confirmed that Turkey was sending Syrian jihadists to fight on Azeri side in Karabakh conflict.
It seems Erdogan really has some kind of napoleonic complex, ironically his neo-ottoman tantrums are essentially creating an alliance against him - Greece, Russia, Syria and now Armenia as well.

The Source here is the armenian Ambassador...

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Where is your starting point here even? I don´t want to repeat myself you already got your reply on the previous sides. There was one fuzzy early borders and these just belong to the armenians which they decleared by themselve of their foolish delusional actions by the support of the France.

As opposed to Azeris who also declared by themselves..? Neither country's borders are based on any pre-existing boundaries.
I really don't understand what the read of what you wrote here means, can you try re-phrasing it?

After the retreat of the Soviet Troops from that Region it was and before there was a Russo-Persian War while on the same timeline there was a Russo-Turkish war or even Border disputes. It is a little bit controversial when more Azeris are living in Iran then Azerbaijan.

???
The Soviet Union has nothing to do with why Iran owns that territory. The country we today know as Azerbaijan is the Azeri populated area of the territory Russia conquered from Persia, which used to own all Azeri lands.
Not really that controversial, not even that unusual. For example you also have more Mongols living in China than in Mongolia.

While Iranians even call them Turks and not even Azeris. There is also a turkish/turkic backround in Iranian History as you know, we didn´t came from Europe to Minor Asia. Aswell there was also some Royal families with turkic backround in Iran or on their Leadership. Of course this all changed after the Revolution.

You didn't answer my question at all. I'll explain for you: the Safavids, who controlled territory in "Iranian Azerbaijan" unified Persia, thus making that area part of Persia, and so it remained to this day. Somewhat akin to how China owns Manchuria because the Qing, who come from Manchuria, conquered China and added it to their realm. It is in no way an occupation.

[Love Mountain]

Well this is going predictably so far.

1. Deny all evidence that there are foreign fighters.
2. Once the situation is undeniable, whine about how Azerbaijan is justified in its actions.
3. Talk about history and why Armenia and Iran are evil.

If anyone doubts this template, just look at the many iterations of the Syria thread.

[Drtad]

@Drtad we already know your Pro-Armenian Side since your first reply on this Topic but it´s funny to see how you are trying to counter it. I love how you even ignoring the massacres that are made on Azeri-victims by the armenian Side and their evictions from there Houses. Some of them happened under Soviet Rule and some of them even after it but it was always an armenian which was doing it.

What exactly am I trying to counter? Are you insinuating that if I advocate for peace or gunfire locators to prevent violence that I'm not "pro-Armenian"? The blame for the ethnic clashes lies on the Soviets for their gerrymandering of the region and on the government of Azerbaijan, which has had a clear policy of exterminating and cleansing Armenians from Azeri controlled areas.

but don´t spread some lies from funny Sources which even repeat themselve by the same Video materials.

That's rich.

[PointOfViewGun]

Well this is going predictably so far.

1. Deny all evidence that there are foreign fighters.
2. Once the situation is undeniable, whine about how Azerbaijan is justified in its actions.
3. Talk about history and why Armenia and Iran are evil.

If anyone doubts this template, just look at the many iterations of the Syria thread.

How does a situation that has no evidence whatsoever to the level that people had to resort to using forgeries to substantiate it becomes undeniable?

[Love Mountain]

How does a situation that has no evidence whatsoever to the level that people had to resort to using forgeries to substantiate it becomes undeniable?

Even if you don't believe that there are any foreign fighters, that doesn't mean there is no evidence. If you don't want to believe reports and publications fine, but let's not pretend that they don't exist.

[PointOfViewGun]

Even if you don't believe that there are any foreign fighters, that doesn't mean there is no evidence. If you don't want to believe reports and publications fine, but let's not pretend that they don't exist.

I never pretended they don't exist. I addressed them quite extensively. You're pretending hearsay and unsubstantiated claims are evidence. I don't. For example, there have been reports that the Armenian unit under YPG was transported to Karabakh recently as well but I never saw any evidence of it. So, at the moment, I do not know that they're there and I do not claim it. I only expect the slightest standard here that is not being met at all.

[Love Mountain]

I never pretended they don't exist. I addressed them quite extensively. You're pretending hearsay and unsubstantiated claims are evidence. I don't. For example, there have been reports that the Armenian unit under YPG was transported to Karabakh recently as well but I never saw any evidence of it. So, at the moment, I do not know that they're there and I do not claim it. I only expect the slightest standard here that is not being met at all.

So let's not claim that it doesn't exist then, how about that?

[Exarch]

2020 just keeps getting better; is world war III gonna happen in the caucasus rather than the Persian Gulf and the SCS?
We can only hope.

I got my money on the Armenians, purely because they have been good mercenaries for me in M2:TW.

[dogukan]

While international law and the other stuff is obviously important, we are not quite in the previous decade where rules were more prominent. International law and treaties are collapsing as nationalisms rise and West weakens (look at USA, the most powerful nation on earth and the candidates they can come up with in such dire times in the world). The enforcability of international laws and its observation is becoming a joke.

And more and more it being replaced by the dominance of geopolitics and expectations from the future as well as sense of identifying with one or the other side.

In my opinion whether Syrians are being sent to the front or not does not change the facts, opinions or expectations of any side that matters at this point.
The offensive began with a false flag from Azeri-Turkish side to legitimize the conflict. If one side wants to do something, creating a reason for it is easy, and international institutions matter far less today.

The media by producing the Syrian story shows that there are likely plans to intervene to the conflict to stop the bloodshed from certain forces around the world.
Tonight's S-300 launch in Yerevan can also be a false-flag for Russia to justify its eventual involvement.

When such weak actors are the drivers of a situation that are being monitored by far more powerful sides, I doubt there is a serious problem of "lack of information" on any part with regards to who did what (the alleged shelling of Armenians to start the conflict, the Syrian mercenaries or the S-300 launch).
These events appear more like maneuvers that are AROUND what really matters, or part of preparing the groundwork for something. Not the drivers of the main story. At its weakest, they likely are there to simply increase leverage/pressure.

Just my 2 cents on the debates that rage here

In any case, despite the massive glorification on the Turkish-Azeri side, it appears that nothing that matters is taken, let alone entrenched into. It even seems like Armenians have gained ground in various instances. Many hundres or thousands died for a couple of villages.

I stick to my earlier opinion:
Azeri side wanted to blitz the Armenians in a suprise assault using the un-adapted AA defences with the innovative drone strategies. They expected to shock the defences much like what happened to Syrians in Idlib.I reckon the expectation was a sudden collapse of Armenian lines and taking over of many strategic locations, forcing Armenia into the diplomatic negotiations to speed up the deal that has been stuck for years. Even a few losses could have been significant and enough for Armenians to feel insecure for the future of Artaskh. Azeri leverage is already very high, it would have only became highly advantageous if certain locations were taken. Armenians are still serious even about Fuzuli and the Xacavend(or something) which they actually offered to Azeris previously, 2 unpopulated towns. These towns are there as a buffer for Armenians to trade and they have not even given up on those yet despite them being on flatter ground.

The Turkish nationalists, especially Turanists so far seem to be dissapointed as they were certain that the superior Turkish soldier would smash the poor, weak Armenia that is on its knees in a few days.
The war has already caused a mass mobilization in Armenia and they are likely already entrenching further which makes the assault even more pointless. On the other hand, if the war was to drag for months or years, Azeris would win the attrition war but do they really have time? No if this is not pre-dealt.

The expectation that drones would become a substitute for air superiority missions seem to have failed despite the heavy damage it caused. For today, Azeris have stopped their assault waves which likely caused severe amounts of death and destruction on those open fields.

Azeri side with the coordination of Turkish military is likely planning a new assault to break the Armenian defences to rapidly gain something.
We are still unsure whether this conflict was pre-dealt behind the scenes like Russians did for Afrin with Kurds or not.
Thats the trick with Russia. It is unsure how capable they are or what they really wish for or how much they are willing to commit for what.
If today's S-300 launch in Yerevan has something to do with Russia, I reckon they'll go in soon.


As for Iran, they seem to be in a massive panic. The theocracy is Iran is rapidly losing its ground. Controlling such an ethno-religiously diverse population without creating a common identity or a political culture requires an authoritarian regime, a powerful deep state. That is what Iran has. But the newer generations are more secular which removes the ground for Shia unity.
Israel has been supporting Azerbaijan (as the Armenians have severely experienced in this 5 days) to one they eventually give them a part in collapse of Iran due to massive Azeri populace there. So Iran wants Armenians to somewhat win without putting fire onto Azeri nationalism and freeze the conflict.
As the basis for Shia identity goes away and Iran cannot provide a democratic co-existance model for various ethnic groups, the day Iran will collapse is fast approaching. And the path this particular conflict takes will likely have a major impact on how fast that day comes.
And when that day comes, it will not only be the Azeris that re-shape the middle east, it will also give a massive boost to Kurds and therefore changes in Iraq, Syria and Turkey will likely follow. + Add the Baloch seperatism which will one day touch Pakistan. If this happens, Iran will retreat to the Tehran-Isfahan-Mashad Persian plateu as a smaller Persian entity.
So they have a lot of stake in what is going on. The fact that Azeris in Iran are in anger should be ringing alarm bells.


@ Nebaki
You've asked me to talk against the other guys posts. Why? Do I have to reply to everything? I simply make my analysis on the situation from time to time and sit back to observe.
Also, stop glorifying war with such footages. Those are humans lives that suddenly dissapear, people who serve their nation as they see it.

[Nebaki]

@ Nebaki
You've asked me to talk against the other guys posts. Why? Do I have to reply to everything? I simply make my analysis on the situation from time to time and sit back to observe.
Also, stop glorifying war with such footages. Those are humans lives that suddenly dissapear, people who serve their nation as they see it.

You are repeating yourself in any Thread that is a little bit Turkey related and at the end your blaming turkish nationalists [believe me we don´t need to read that 10th times again we know how your view in this case is] I´m not glorifying here something, someone in this Thread a "User" was making propaganda for just one side while accuse the other side of lying. There are of course more footages but i don´t think that i need post them all here.