Page 20 of 23 FirstFirst ... 1011121314151617181920212223 LastLast
Results 381 to 400 of 443

Thread: Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

  1. #381

    Default Re: Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    What's disgusting is to lie about what people argue and then bank of suffering of thousands of people to take an online jab at people.
    LOL right, calling you out for trying to portray this conflict as Armenia, a poor country of 3 million people, attacking Azerbaijan (a petro-oligarchy of 10 million people run by the same dictatorial family since the FIRST WAR and strongly backed by Turkey) and causing them to invade, and then stating that this is actually what Armenia wants since they were banking on countries to jump in to their defense (nobody expected or expects that in NK), is ridiculous, genocide-enabling, and warmongering.

    Anyway, here is yet another article from the Syria Observatory for Human Rights about another Syrian mercenary commander killed in NK: https://www.syriahr.com/en/189880/

    I can't see why any population would voluntarily accept inclusion within a country that was less free than they currently are. Especially given the knowledge, that Azerbijan is becoming less free over time, while Nagorno Karabakh is trending more free.
    NKR was even more free and democratic than Armenia, prior to Armenia's anti-oligarch revolution in 2018.
    Last edited by Drtad; October 28, 2020 at 03:16 AM.
    Under the patronage of John I Tzimisces

  2. #382

    Default Re: Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

    Quote Originally Posted by Drtad View Post
    LOL right, calling you out for trying to portray this conflict as Armenia, a poor country of 3 million people, attacking Azerbaijan (a petro-oligarchy of 10 million people run by the same dictatorial family since the FIRST WAR and strongly backed by Turkey) and causing them to invade, and then stating that this is actually what Armenia wants since they were banking on countries to jump in to their defense (nobody expected or expects that in NK), is ridiculous, genocide-enabling, and warmongering.
    You may disagree with it. You may think its ridiculous. But to say its genocide enabling and warmongering to point out Armenian tactics based on their actions and rhetoric is simply disgusting. Call me out all the way. Yet, do it without demagoguery. Use of such bigotry doesn't help your cause.


    Quote Originally Posted by Drtad View Post
    Anyway, here is yet another article from the Syria Observatory for Human Rights about another Syrian mercenary commander killed in NK: https://www.syriahr.com/en/189880/
    Says SOHR documented Syrian commander in Azerbaijan. Provides no document whatsoever to back it up...
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  3. #383
    Cookiegod's Avatar Primicerius
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In Derc's schizophrenic mind
    Posts
    3,591

    Default Re: Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

    Sigh. Still denying the obvious?
    A'ight:

    1: https://youtu.be/z3gy0qpsv3Y
    Recently captured fighters from the Sultan Murad division in Syrian TV about the Turkish payments.
    Has a Russian dub, but I'm sure you can find the original somewhere.
    Pay to fight in Syria: 50 Dollars a month. Libya: 1500. Azerbaijan: 2000. -> lines up perfectly with what the SOHR, Russia, US, etc. all say.

    2: https://www.jesrpress.com/2020/10/03...4%d9%85%d8%b9/
    Sultan Murad fighters in Horadiz, Azerbaijan, singing a Sultan Murad song. You can also see the vid directly here: https://youtu.be/AguRvgiZbHQ
    Moneyquote: "'We're at the [border] crossing with #Armenia' One says, before another one corrects 'It's Libya, Libya'."

    3: Syrian rebel flag in the Caucasus mountains: https://twitter.com/Dalatrm/status/1312358411070246914

    4: https://twitter.com/Elizrael/status/1312345769555496961 Video of a Syrian mercenary in Azerbaijan speaking about the heavy shelling carried out by Armenian forces. I reached his cousin. The fighter is Mustafa Qanti, 23-years-old. He was recruited to go to Libya by the Hamza Division, a Turkish-backed faction.

    5: I'm deliberately not going to post footage of either Syrian Arabs cursing at "Armenian swines" corpses on videos, or of those bodies returning from Azerbaijan to Syria. There's plenty of both.

    I'm doing this post on the quick. Feel free to check out this twitter thread: https://twitter.com/OsmanJoker8/stat...08195811835904

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    From Socrates over Jesus to me it has always been the lot of any true visionary to be rejected by the reactionary bourgeoisie
    Qualis noncives pereo! #justiceforcookie #egalitéfraternitécookié #CLM

  4. #384

    Default Re: Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    Sigh. Still denying the obvious?
    A'ight:
    1: https://youtu.be/z3gy0qpsv3Y
    Recently captured fighters from the Sultan Murad division in Syrian TV about the Turkish payments.
    Has a Russian dub, but I'm sure you can find the original somewhere.
    Pay to fight in Syria: 50 Dollars a month. Libya: 1500. Azerbaijan: 2000. -> lines up perfectly with what the SOHR, Russia, US, etc. all say.
    2: https://www.jesrpress.com/2020/10/03...4%d9%85%d8%b9/
    Sultan Murad fighters in Horadiz, Azerbaijan, singing a Sultan Murad song. You can also see the vid directly here: https://youtu.be/AguRvgiZbHQ
    Moneyquote: "'We're at the [border] crossing with #Armenia' One says, before another one corrects 'It's Libya, Libya'."
    3: Syrian rebel flag in the Caucasus mountains: https://twitter.com/Dalatrm/status/1312358411070246914
    4: https://twitter.com/Elizrael/status/1312345769555496961 Video of a Syrian mercenary in Azerbaijan speaking about the heavy shelling carried out by Armenian forces. I reached his cousin. The fighter is Mustafa Qanti, 23-years-old. He was recruited to go to Libya by the Hamza Division, a Turkish-backed faction.
    5: I'm deliberately not going to post footage of either Syrian Arabs cursing at "Armenian swines" corpses on videos, or of those bodies returning from Azerbaijan to Syria. There's plenty of both.
    I'm doing this post on the quick. Feel free to check out this twitter thread: https://twitter.com/OsmanJoker8/stat...08195811835904
    If I am to take random videos showing random people speaking in languages neither of us can understand seriously then I have to do the same for the substance that claims PKK fighters are in Karabakh fighting against Azerbaijanis.
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  5. #385
    Cookiegod's Avatar Primicerius
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In Derc's schizophrenic mind
    Posts
    3,591

    Default Re: Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

    evidence dismissed because *drumroll* Syrians speak Arab.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    From Socrates over Jesus to me it has always been the lot of any true visionary to be rejected by the reactionary bourgeoisie
    Qualis noncives pereo! #justiceforcookie #egalitéfraternitécookié #CLM

  6. #386

    Default Re: Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

    Meanwhile, it is reported that cluster munition was used on Azerbaijani city of Barda. 4 was reported to be killed yesterday but the count was up to 12 about an hour ago.

    Long but interestingly well written take on the conflict:
    Roots of War: When Armenia Talked Tough, Azerbaijan Took Action
    For years, the leaders of Azerbaijan and Armenia had agreed to postpone discussion about the status of the disputed territory of Nagorno-Karabakh, to avoid inflaming passions. But that changed suddenly this spring, when Armenia’s populist prime minister declared the area indisputably Armenian.To Azerbaijanis, who lost a bitter, unresolved war with Armenia over the region in the 1990s, the remark by the prime minister, Nikol Pashinyan, landed with explosive force. Even more infuriating, it was delivered in Shusha, a city that Azerbaijanis regard as their cultural capital but that lies in territory lost during the war.
    “The final nail in the coffin of the negotiation process was when he said that Nagorno-Karabakh was Armenian,” said Hikmet Hajiyev, foreign policy adviser to the Azerbaijani president.
    The two countries returned to all-out war a month ago, with Azerbaijan determined to retake the roughly 13 percent of its land that Armenia seized 26 years ago, displacing 800,000 Azerbaijanis in the process. The fighting threatens to draw in Turkey, on the Azerbaijani side, and Russia, which backs Armenia.
    Casualties in the conflict have already mounted into the thousands, but as his troops make advances, Azerbaijan’s president, Ilham Aliyev, is showing no signs of slowing down, and the country is gripped with war fever.
    A cease-fire mediated in Washington last weekend was broken within an hour of coming into force as both sides traded artillery fire Monday morning.
    Mr. Aliyev is demanding that Armenian forces withdraw to internationally recognized borders in keeping with United Nations Security Council resolutions and basic principles agreed to in previous negotiations. These were the terms agreed upon 10 years ago but never implemented, and analysts say that Armenia became less ambiguous this year about claiming Nagorno-Karabakh and the surrounding districts seized during the war.
    Mr. Hajiyev said in an interview that Azerbaijan had hoped for progress when the Armenian leader, Mr. Pashinyan, came to power after a popular uprising in 2018. At their first meeting, Mr. Pashinyan, a former journalist, asked Mr. Aliyev for time but promised to pursue a new policy on Nagorno-Karabakh.
    That policy never came. Tensions escalated this year, analysts say, as Mr. Pashinyan and his defense minister made increasingly populist statements over the territory, announcing plans to make Shusha the regional capital and in August moving the Parliament there. Those steps may ultimately prove to have been major miscalculations.
    An American-Armenian historian, Jirair Libaridian, has suggested as much. “We became obsessed with our dreams instead of focusing on the possible,” he wrote in September.
    Independent analysts largely see Azerbaijan as the main driver of the war, saying it prepared a major offensive, but add that Mr. Pashinyan pushed the envelope with his populist talk.
    “It’s logical that Azerbaijan wanted to start this, not the Armenians, who merely want the status quo,” said Thomas de Waal, a senior fellow with Carnegie Europe and author of “Black Garden,” a book on Nagorno-Karabakh. “But the Armenians also played their part with provocative moves.”
    The Armenian government has accused Azerbaijan of mounting a planned offensive and of instigating the clashes that led to all-out war, and says it is acting entirely in self-defense.
    Russia has been a crucial presence backing Armenia. It supported Armenia in the original conflict, maintains two military bases in the country and has provided support and equipment.
    Since the moribund truce in 2009, leaders of both countries proceeded carefully, believing it was politically safer to stick with the status quo than risk the territorial compromises that a peace deal would demand, Mr. de Waal said.
    All the while, Mr. Aliyev, who inherited the presidency from his father in 2003, was using his country’s oil and gas wealth to build up the military, purchasing advanced weapons and sending officers for NATO-standard training in Turkey.
    The rearming effort seemed to bear fruit in 2016, when in four days of fighting Azerbaijani forces seized control of a village just over the cease-fire line. But Russia intervened to stop the advance, said Farid Shafiyev, a former diplomat and director of the government-funded Center for Analysis of International Relations in Baku.
    The popular disappointment at that time was palpable, he said. He noticed the same public reaction when Russia negotiated a cease-fire on Oct. 10, just two weeks into the latest fighting. “People were very depressed,” he said.
    The immediate spark for the current conflict came in July, in a deadly clash near the border town of Tovuz, where Azerbaijan’s vital oil and gas pipelines run on their way to Georgia and Turkey.
    Armenian soldiers fired on an Azerbaijani military vehicle, touching off heavy cross-border exchanges that killed more than a dozen people, including several officers.
    One of those killed, Maj. Gen. Polad Hashimov, was a popular figure whose death stirred an outpouring of emotion. A small protest became a demonstration of tens of thousands of people marching through the capital, Baku, demanding that the country retake Nagorno-Karabakh.
    “The July events sent a shock wave,” said Mr. Hajiyev, the policy adviser. “And public opinion and the youngsters sent this message: ‘Enough is enough.’”
    Frustrations over the coronavirus pandemic and severe water shortages added pressure, said an Azerbaijani journalist, Khadija Izmayilova. “It was clear to Aliyev that the public was ready to explode and it was time to act.”
    President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey regarded the clash at Tovuz as a strategic threat to Azerbaijan and immediately dispatched jets and troops for two weeks of joint military exercises with the Azerbaijani military.
    Turkish analysts saw Mr. Erdogan’s move as a way to gain leverage in his dealings with Russia. But protecting his Turkic ally, which recently replaced Russia as Turkey’s main source of natural gas, was also hugely important.
    “It is a cliché that Turkey was instigating it,” Mr. Shafiyev, of the Center for Analysis of International Relations, said of Azerbaijan’s venture into war. But he confirmed, as both Mr. Erdogan and Mr. Aliyev have since, that Turkey has promised active support if Azerbaijan were to run into difficulties.
    In August, the Azerbaijani authorities said the army had detained Armenian troops making another cross-border foray. “We understood something was coming,” Mr. Hajiyev said.
    After years of trading sporadic artillery fire, both sides were poised and ready for more by September.
    Villagers living on the Azerbaijani side of the cease-fire line near the town of Terter were forewarned by the Azerbaijani military on Sept. 26. Some who had cars left in the night. Those who stayed described a barrage of Armenian rockets at 7 a.m. the following day.
    “We hear shelling all the time, but this was completely different,” said Gulbeniz Badalova, 59, who lives in Terter, just 500 yards from the cease-fire line. “They started to fire continuously, and we all got scared.”
    Azerbaijan quickly retaliated, saying it was defending its civilian populations. “They started attacking civilians and we were obliged to make a counter offensive operation,” Mr. Hajiyev said. But even some officials admitted they had been waiting for an excuse to launch an attack.
    Azerbaijani troops have already retaken parts of four southern districts along the border with Iran and have come within striking distance of the Lachin corridor, a mountain pass that is a critical supply route from Armenia.
    But there is little doubt that it has been tough going for Azerbaijani forces. Baku has not released numbers of military casualties, but President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia said on Thursday that each side had already lost more than 2,000 soldiers in less than a month of fighting. Missile strikes have also killed at least 65 civilians from Azerbaijan and 37 from Armenia, according to official figures from both sides.
    Public support for the offensive remains solidly behind Mr. Aliyev and the army, but the president could face a difficult job managing expectations.
    Many Azerbaijani families displaced by the shelling in Terter are originally refugees from Karabakh, and said they would not be satisfied if Mr. Aliyev halted after taking only a few districts.
    “It’s not enough,” Zarifa Suleymanova, 43, said, before listing all the regions Azerbaijan needed back. “We have very brave sons. It will not take long.”
    Death toll from Barda exceeds 20.

    Azerbaijan says 21 dead in Armenia missile attack
    Azerbaijan accused Armenia of killing 21 people and wounding dozens in a missile strike near Nagorno-Karabakh on Wednesday, the deadliest reported attack on civilians in a month of fighting over the disputed region.
    Armenia immediately denied carrying out the attack, the second in two days, that Azerbaijan says killed civilians in its Barda district close to the frontline.
    If you Google for this beware of the imagery.
    Last edited by PointOfViewGun; October 28, 2020 at 09:50 AM.
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  7. #387

    Default Re: Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

    Latest situation:



    The maps are made by Rasul Hasan. They mostly represent Azerbaijani claims but they're one of the best made ones. Helps to be done by a proper designer, I guess. There is also one maintained by the Armenian army but it often contradicted their own statements which made it unreliable.
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  8. #388
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    4,937

    Default Re: Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Sigh... You're arguing as if you never argued that Armenians were merely shelling against advancing Azerbaijani forces. OK, your funeral.
    Do show me where I said that.



    I don't know. Was it? Nothing shows up on Google. What's the relevance though?
    There's a thread about it right here in the mudpit, and I'm quite certain you participated in it.
    About as relevant as the Armenian defence ministers statements.



    I guess only Armenians have this right...
    I said that it's not uncommon in the region and thus I don't attribute it much importance, not that's it's okay or right.



    In a way, yes. They likely didn't think they'd lose this badly before someone acted. They've been trying to frame this conflict as genocide have been being inflicted on them, that it was the battle between West vs. East, that it was Christianity against Islam. They assumed that at least Russia would intervene directly but that didn't pan out too as Russia had to come out and explicitly state that they could not intervene since the conflict was not on Armenian land.
    And yet now that they are and it's clear Russia isn't intervening you're still claiming that they're continuing to break ceasefires to lose even harder.

  9. #389

    Default Re: Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

    Quote Originally Posted by Tureuki View Post
    They, for multiple times expressed a willingness for a new kind of an autonomy, which as far as i see is firmly rejected by Armenians therefore never even discussed, it is irrevelant whether Armenians consider it serious or not, the offer is officially there.
    where, any documents you could present? benevolent mini-sultan Aliev recently promised 'cultural autonomy' but what does it mean? no explanation was given whatsoever. words are wind. iirc, for over two decades Azeries did not bother to draft a single paper that would clarify/provide a template/framework... something, anything, about a meaningful autonomy. we all know why, because they have no intention of granting one, which is not surprising given the level of political culture and intolerance existing in that sultanate the core unifying ideological pillar of which is hatred of Armenians. the Armenians will be ethnically cleansed if their armed forces fail, its that simple.

    on compromises. Armenians have always been ready to compromise. the red line is the status of Artsakh, something Aliev refuses to discuss. Artsakh was never a part of post-Soviet, independent Azerbaijan. anything else, territories around it etc, are subject to negotiations. Aliev's 'conditions' or ultimatum to be precise, are therefore impossible to fulfill and that's by design, of course.

  10. #390

    Default Re: Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Do show me where I said that.
    Here:
    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    So they should unilaterally honour the ceasefire and not try to stop the Azeri forces who keep advancing. That worked great for the Soviets during ww1.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    There's a thread about it right here in the mudpit, and I'm quite certain you participated in it.
    About as relevant as the Armenian defence ministers statements.
    You neither have any substance to show, nor can explain its relevance, don't you? Sigh... Don't make it so obvious please.


    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    I said that it's not uncommon in the region and thus I don't attribute it much importance, not that's it's okay or right.
    That's not what I was suggesting. I certainly don't see such sentiments when the rhetoric is coming from Azerbaijanis. When Armenians do it its dismissed without much thought.


    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    And yet now that they are and it's clear Russia isn't intervening you're still claiming that they're continuing to break ceasefires to lose even harder.
    Pretty much. They're hoping that the conflict spills to Armenia proper. That's probably why they continue to strike civilian centers; to get Azerbaijanis to act recklessly. They might be banking anti-Turkish sentiments in Europe spilling from other conflicts. Then again, they're too invested in it to turn back now. Usually losing side doesn't simply stop at the first sign of failure.
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  11. #391
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    4,937

    Default Re: Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Here:
    Yes, I said stop the enemy. That doesn't mean only shell advancing forces, it means do whatever necessary to dis-incentivise the Azeris from their war of aggression, within reason of course.




    You neither have any substance to show, nor can explain its relevance, don't you? Sigh... Don't make it so obvious please.
    Sigh. Here it is: Note how you did indeed participate in the thread and thus should know what I'm talking about, but you seem to instead deny knowledge of this event.
    The relevance is that both countries's defence ministers threatened the other, hence the Armenian defence minister's words shouldn't be taken at face value. After all you provide the same excuse for other countries, do you not?



    That's not what I was suggesting. I certainly don't see such sentiments when the rhetoric is coming from Azerbaijanis. When Armenians do it its dismissed without much thought.
    I dismiss such statements from both sides.



    Pretty much. They're hoping that the conflict spills to Armenia proper. That's probably why they continue to strike civilian centers; to get Azerbaijanis to act recklessly. They might be banking anti-Turkish sentiments in Europe spilling from other conflicts. Then again, they're too invested in it to turn back now. Usually losing side doesn't simply stop at the first sign of failure.
    So you're arguing that the Armenian government and military are idiots. Gotcha. Clearly a much more likely scenario than.. Azerbaijan is advancing and has no interest in stopping.

  12. #392

    Default Re: Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

    Meanwhile, various sources confirm that Armenia used cluster munition in Barda:

    Banned Cluster Munitions Used Against Civilians in Azerbaijan
    Exclusive: Widely-banned Russian-made cluster munitions were used during an attack upon residential areas in Barda, Azerbaijan, that killed 21 people.
    Widely-banned Russian-made cluster munitions – which appear to have been fired by Armenian forces – have been used against residential areas in the town of Barda, Azerbaijan.
    VICE News journalists were able to corroborate the use of cluster munitions in an attack that took place on the 28th of October. In an investigation carried out just hours after the attack, we discovered and examined impacts and remnants of Smerch submunitions, which have been independently verified by Amnesty International’s military expert, Brian Castner and former UN military advisor, Marc Garlasco.

    Armenia/Azerbaijan: First confirmed use of cluster munitions by Armenia ‘cruel and reckless’
    Amnesty International has verified the use of banned cluster bombs by Armenia for the first time in the current Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, following an attack on the city of Barda in Azerbaijan.
    Yesterday (28 October 2020), at approximately 1.30pm local time, one or several Smerch rockets were fired into Barda, striking a residential neighbourhood close to a hospital. The Azerbaijani Prosecutor General’s Office has stated that at least 21 people were killed, with an estimated 70 more injured.
    Amnesty International’s Crisis Response experts verified pictures (taken by Vice News reporters in the city) of fragments of 9N235 cluster munitions from Russian-made 9M55 Smerch rockets, that appear to have been fired into the city by Armenian forces.
    “The firing of cluster munitions into civilian areas is cruel and reckless, and causes untold death, injury and misery,” said Marie Struthers, Amnesty International’s Regional Director for Eastern Europe and Central Asia.
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  13. #393

    Default Re: Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

    Alen Simonyan, Vice President of National Assembly of the Republic of Armenia, tweeted a blurred photo of pigs feeding on Azerbaijani soldiers saying 10 thousand Azerbaijani soldiers were left to be food for animal...
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  14. #394

    Default Re: Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

    Aliyev announced the capture of Shusha on Twitter, Khankendi may switch hands quicker than expected. Hocavend, Aghdam line cannot hold after the Lachin corridor and Shusha/Khankendi are secured, as they will be sandwiched from east and west.

  15. #395
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    16,297

    Default Re: Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/nagorno-k...154357156.html

    Russian helicopter shot down over Armenia.

    https://caucasus.liveuamap.com/

    Azerbaijan is already admitting they shot the helicopter down.
    Last edited by Vanoi; November 09, 2020 at 12:29 PM.

  16. #396

    Default Re: Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/...o-karabakh-war

    I guess it just ended? They are surrendering the control to Azerbaijan in exchange of a guarantee for autonomy. A missile has landed in Baku around the same time, could be an indicator for disagreement within the army.

  17. #397
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    16,297

    Default Re: Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54882564

    So Azerbaijan gets to keep what it took plus a few other areas while Armenia gets to keep the rest. It does look to be over.

  18. #398

    Default Re: Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

    I'm not too optimistic about Russian boots on the ground but at least there is a chance for UN resolution calling Armenia to withdraw from non-NK occupied regions without a fight. However, it was not received well in Armenia by the public. Angry mobs have beaten Armenian parliament speaker Ararat Mirzanyan, and prime minister Pashinyan's house was attacked. With military occupation of Azerbaijani lands finished in most regions the conflict could enter a guerrilla phase where we see an ASALA like group taking over the fight.

    The map of the deal:

    Last edited by PointOfViewGun; November 10, 2020 at 03:27 AM.
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  19. #399

    Default Re: Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

    Aliyev has made some contradicting remarks, he mentioned no special status for Nagorno-Karabagh, but what's gonna happen to the Russian monitored areas if there is no autonomy? Perhaps just an ethnic recognition with some nominal cultural rights, or he doesn't knows what he is talking about.

    He also mentioned Turkish peacekeepers, which is not in the original agreement as far as i know(since Armenia would never agree to it), Russians won't allow Turkey to sit on equal grounds with them over there, if this happens, Turkey will probably have a symbolic token force in Shusha perhaps, not anywhere near Khankendi.

    It was only a matter of time before Russians moved in, at least they didn't moved in for Armenia but for their own gains(which i think is problematic for Azerbaijan, but that is another story), therefore Azerbaijan still managed to score a major victory instead of yet another deadlock. Nice.

  20. #400
    antaeus's Avatar Whataboutery
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    4,284

    Default Re: Azerbaijan-Armenia war over Nagorno Karabakh

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    I'm not too optimistic about Russian boots on the ground but at least there is a chance for UN resolution calling Armenia to withdraw from non-NK occupied regions without a fight. However, it was not received well in Armenia by the public. Angry mobs have beaten Armenian parliament speaker Ararat Mirzanyan, and prime minister Pashinyan's house was attacked.
    Much like the protests on the street in Azerbaijan in July called for war because of impatience with peace talks, we now see protests on the street in Armenia calling for war. This will form part of a future narrative - of "Armenian loss that has to be recovered", and if the regional major power balance shifts in future, as it has over the last 30 years, you can be guaranteed that conflict will occur again.

    As I told you earlier in the thread. When both sides include the same land as a part of their fundamental cultural identity, you don't get peace on a battlefield. You get a pause, and a justification for future action. Like a game of tag-you're-it the grievance is now transferred to the other side for the next generation. But hey, your war sports team gets to wave it's flag, at least until it's children have to fight the same fight again because Azerbaijan's dictator chose cave in to domestic pressure and go to war now instead of patiently work towards a long term sustainable peace process.

    And don't worry, when Armenians do go to war in future over this land, I'll call them warmongering idiots who've blown the chance for long term peace, just like I have done towards Azerbaijan today.
    Last edited by antaeus; November 10, 2020 at 07:58 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •