How do you fix the US?

[Cope]

I do understand that logic, but it seems an arbitrary solution though. It would be just as easy to limit service to over 25s... when they're "mentally grown up enough" to understand why they're giving their life away, and already enfranchised enough to choose politicians who have the temperament required to not go to war unnecessarily.

If the justification for increasing the voting age to 25 is that people under that age aren't yet fully mentally mature, isn't sending people who aren't yet fully mentally mature off to war tantamount to abuse?

Anyway... sorry, we're off topic. I'm just fascinated by the way we define who is an adult in different scenarios.

The military has to take physiological concerns into consideration due to the nature of the work. It must also offer potential recruits a viable career path (most people have settled into an employment routine by the age of 25). Issues regarding competence to serve can and are be overcome by testing and training.

[TheLeft]

Doesn't change the fact that economy was growing steadily until Chinese Virus affected it.

As was the economy of pretty much every country on Earth. Your point is?

But it's interesting that you've skirted the issue. Trump promised to eliminate the deficit. He didn't, instead he added to it exponentially. The upshot of this is that you don't care when Trump lies, because it's Trump and he can do no wrong in your eyes. Which is really weird...

Imagine being such a boot licker. To a politician of all people!

What did he, in his capacity as office-holding politician, do to prevent that in half a century that he spent being in government?

So no sources or evidence to back up your point? Just an "I'm right because... reasons"?

Fine. I'll take the win.

Big Pharma is doing fine in both Canada and UK. Elephant in the room is that drugs and medical treatment are overpriced, due to government overregulation in favor of specific corporations. So again, we have Democrats kissing ass of corporations at the expense of working class.

Source? Evidence? I know there won't be because you don't "do evidence", but I'm going to ask hopefully...

US under Trump is doing a pretty good job with that, all things considered. If COVID hit US with Democrats in the office, the death toll would have been a lot higher, Democrats even protested Trump shutting down travel with China last year.

Wait? What? Are you being serious?

So the political party that thinks that face masks and social distancing are *checks notes* communist, who's leader has been veering between outright COVID denial and grudging acceptance (depending on his mood that day) and have literally been in charge when 219k Americans have died is somehow best placed to handle the current pandemic?

Wow... Just wow...

Again, you're going to need to back up this rather wild claim with evidence and sources...

Democrats are fine with hundreds of thousands dying as long as their corporate sugar daddies are happy.

How many Tweets has Trump sent out expressing sympathy for the families of the victims of COVID compared to those bashing a political opponent?

Raising minimum wage is an idiotic populist move, since purchasing power of an individual remains practically the same or even goes down since prices go up due to rising expenses. Again, we have the Liberal mouthbreather in Canada who did that and only made things worse.
If you want to improve livelihood of working class, then you need to cut taxes, so that there are more jobs and more companies move in to hire people. Biden would just crush the economy and it would hit working people the most, as his corporate handlers have their tax havens to avoid paying more taxes, while its your average worker that would lose his job and would be able to buy less.

Avoiding the question? I understand.

I'll try again. Why do you feel that you don't deserve proper working conditions? What is it about having no paid vacation, or being able to be fired at any time for any reason that you particularly enjoy? Is it low self esteem? Or are you THAT partisan that you reject it even if it benefits you, simply because 'the other side' suggested it?

Because that would be daft and an act of self harm...

[Heathen Hammer]

As was the economy of pretty much every country on Earth. Your point is?

But it's interesting that you've skirted the issue. Trump promised to eliminate the deficit. He didn't, instead he added to it exponentially. The upshot of this is that you don't care when Trump lies, because it's Trump and he can do no wrong in your eyes. Which is really weird...

Imagine being such a boot licker. To a politician of all people!

Economy of US was growing much faster then that of Canada and for some reason Democrats really like the elitist PM that we have now that has been pleasing corporate elites and foreign interest holders at working people's expense for 6 years now.

So no sources or evidence to back up your point? Just an "I'm right because... reasons"?

Fine. I'll take the win.

So you finally conceded that biden did nothing in his half a century in government, to prevent the outsourcing.

Source? Evidence? I know there won't be because you don't "do evidence", but I'm going to ask hopefully...

Price of insulin is my evidence. You don't care if it is overpriced, corporate-owned "democratic socialists" just want the taxpayer to take the bill and steal income from working class.

Wait? What? Are you being serious?

So the political party that thinks that face masks and social distancing are *checks notes* communist, who's leader has been veering between outright COVID denial and grudging acceptance (depending on his mood that day) and have literally been in charge when 219k Americans have died is somehow best placed to handle the current pandemic?

Wow... Just wow...

Again, you're going to need to back up this rather wild claim with evidence and sources...

So no evidence, as usual.
Meantime, we have evidence of Democrats criticizing Trump over shutting down borders with China.

How many Tweets has Trump sent out expressing sympathy for the families of the victims of COVID compared to those bashing a political opponent?

Irrelevant. Trump preventing hundreds of thousands from dying > empty platitudes from Democrats who criticized Trump for doing what saved hundreds of thousands of lives.

Avoiding the question? I understand.

I'll try again. Why do you feel that you don't deserve proper working conditions? What is it about having no paid vacation, or being able to be fired at any time for any reason that you particularly enjoy? Is it low self esteem? Or are you THAT partisan that you reject it even if it benefits you, simply because 'the other side' suggested it?

Because that would be daft and an act of self harm...

I didn't avoid the question, I explained why Biden's program hurts the working class.
Again, if you are "left-wing" then how come you are siding with corporations and bankers against the working class interests? You are either lying about being left or you care more about superficial nonsense like tweets more then about the actual state of things.

[TheLeft]

Economy of US was growing much faster then that of Canada and for some reason Democrats really like the elitist PM that we have now that has been pleasing corporate elites and foreign interest holders at working people's expense for 6 years now.

Canada is irrelevant to the topic. Canada's PM could get caught shagging donkeys for all I care.

You still haven't explained why you think it's OK for Trump to lie to your face over and over again. Like he did with his Deficit claim.

So you finally conceded that biden did nothing in his half a century in government, to prevent the outsourcing.

Errr... No.

I asked you for evidence, a source or a blog to back up your wild and somewhat spurious claim that the outsourcing of US jobs was somehow all Biden's fault. You still can't (or more likely) won't. Repeatedly asking for this evidence is not conceding anything

Try reading more carefully next time.

Price of insulin is my evidence. You don't care if it is overpriced, corporate-owned "democratic socialists" just want the taxpayer to take the bill and steal income from working class.

Simply stating 'Price of insulin' means nothing without any form of context. The 'Price of insulin' as compared to what? Apples? Please elaborate.

So no evidence, as usual.
Meantime, we have evidence of Democrats criticizing Trump over shutting down borders with China.

Really?

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/th...-restrictions/

Trump said Democrats “loudly criticized and protested” his announced travel restrictions, and that they “called me a racist because I made that decision.” Trump is overstating Democratic opposition. None of the party’s congressional leaders and none of the Democratic candidates running for president have directly criticized that decision

Try again.

Irrelevant. Trump preventing hundreds of thousands from dying > empty platitudes from Democrats who criticized Trump for doing what saved hundreds of thousands of lives.

How has he saved hundreds of thousands from dying? By not wearing a mask or refusing to Socially distance himself? By holding 'super spreader' rallies? Or by spreading COVID to the entire White House?

Please elaborate

I didn't avoid the question, I explained why Biden's program hurts the working class.
Again, if you are "left-wing" then how come you are siding with corporations and bankers against the working class interests? You are either lying about being left or you care more about superficial nonsense like tweets more then about the actual state of things.

I'm really not following your logic here. You are going to need to help me out a little. Apparently according to you, asking for European style working conditions (like paid maternity leave, paid holiday, or the right not to be fired randomly if the boss is in a bad mood) is *checks notes* 'siding with corporations and bankers against the working class interests'? Yeah I really don't follow that line of reasoning. Nice try with the Dead Cat Strategy though.

Stop avoiding the question. Why do European style working conditions scare you so much? Why would anyone NOT want better working conditions?

[Heathen Hammer]

You still haven't explained why you think it's OK for Trump to lie to your face over and over again. Like he did with his Deficit claim.

You are yet to prove that he lied.

I asked you for evidence, a source or a blog to back up your wild and somewhat spurious claim that the outsourcing of US jobs was somehow all Biden's fault. You still can't (or more likely) won't. Repeatedly asking for this evidence is not conceding anything

Try reading more carefully next time.

Irreelvant. You claim Biden is against outsourcing. Now list what Biden had done to prevent outsourcing in half a century of him holding political office in USA.

Simply stating 'Price of insulin' means nothing without any form of context.

Yes it does. It is common knowledge that drugs are incredibly overpriced.

Really?

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/th...-restrictions/

Yeah, according to some journos who call themselves "factcheckers" while spouting Democrat talking points, Orange Man is bad. Doesn't change the fact that it was Trump who prevented so much more people from dying from the Chinese virus, and Democrats attacked him for it.

How has he saved hundreds of thousands from dying? By not wearing a mask or refusing to Socially distance himself? By holding 'super spreader' rallies? Or by spreading COVID to the entire White House?

By enacting travel restrictions that Democrats attacked him for. Democrats were the ones that bashed Trump for taking action during initial stages of Chinese virus pandemic, preventing much more people from getting it then could have been.

Why do European style working conditions scare you so much? Why would anyone NOT want better working conditions?

How is losing one's job helps a member of working class? How is losing purchasing power helps member of working class? Please try and explain without buzzwords and ad hominems.

[AqD]

The government won't take money from other people and give it to me. The system is broken :/

To be fair... the entire purpose of leadership is to provide for those that are led - be that literal wealth, protection or shelter.

From tribal warbands to the Roma Republic to modern Sweden... leadership and government is entirely based on buying off those who are governed - It is the entire basis of legitimacy for most forms of government.

But is it competitive in the long run?

Modern welfare countries haven't lasted more than a century or survived any major war or disaster.

On the other hand, most venture capital flows to US, who in turn attracts more high tech workers and pays better in general. All the major IT companies are also US based. The disparity seems to be increasing.

As a non-resident I'd rather see them improve the current system than to adopt the other one, to keep competition and diversity.

Simply stating 'Price of insulin' means nothing without any form of context. The 'Price of insulin' as compared to what? Apples? Please elaborate.

Prices in other countries. See https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47491964

Four times the cost than in India - don't tell me their national insurance can cover 3/4 of that...

[antaeus]

Sorry, I don't like splitting quotes... but this kind of requires it.

But is it competitive in the long run?

Modern welfare countries haven't lasted more than a century or survived any major war or disaster.

Most countries with functional welfare states are still functioning now, and generally at the top of global wealth and wellbeing rankings. Many established their welfare states as a response to the Great Depression. I'd suggest that WW2 is a fairly solid test of the survivability of social welfare - in many cases it was expanded after WW2. By arguing that a system that has aided the wellbeing of people for the best part of a century hasn't proven itself is a tad short sighted and heading into argument from ignorance territory. But like most major government policy, welfare is a work in progress and has to be responsive to changes in circumstances.

On the other hand, most venture capital flows to US, who in turn attracts more high tech workers and pays better in general. All the major IT companies are also US based. The disparity seems to be increasing.

As a non-resident I'd rather see them improve the current system than to adopt the other one, to keep competition and diversity.

I think you're hinting at a dichotomy that doesn't exist. Most developed countries, including the US, try to balance a broad social welfare platform with managing a competitive capitalist business environment, it doesn't require switching systems, and the two are not mutually exclusive. Most countries try to combine socially responsible policy with policy that encourages business growth. The disparities you're pointing out seem to have come about because the balance between social responsibility and free market capitalism has been shifted deliberately towards capitalism in the US over the course of a third of a century. If anything, the inequalities you cite provide evidence that the balance needs to be redressed towards social responsibility, not away from it.

But none of this provides evidence that counters my original point, that most forms of government derive their legitimacy by providing for the governed. Sure there is a broad spectrum of experience in governments, and at times the "how is this government a provider?" question can be hard to decipher. But even the most severe rulers end up with their heads on spikes if they push too far over the line.

[DaVinci]

How do you fix the US?

Turn the timemachine back to before Newt Gingrich entered the stage and let him vanish into a black hole. Banning Redmapping and Gerrymandering. Last but not least reforming/modernization of the election system.

And as kidding, if there was one, God lets rain brain on the people of the DSA, the former USA.

[Love Mountain]

But is it competitive in the long run?

Modern welfare countries haven't lasted more than a century or survived any major war or disaster.

On the other hand, most venture capital flows to US, who in turn attracts more high tech workers and pays better in general. All the major IT companies are also US based. The disparity seems to be increasing.

As a non-resident I'd rather see them improve the current system than to adopt the other one, to keep competition and diversity.

United States is an innovative leader and financial hub due to being a large and open economy, not because it lacks a welfare state.

Prices in other countries. See https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47491964

Four times the cost than in India - don't tell me their national insurance can cover 3/4 of that...

It can, in fact, it could do so at a discount.

[Gromovnik]

Why fixing it at all? Just burn the whole thing.