Reports of abuse and neglect in ICE camps.

[Love Mountain]

A whistleblower complaint alleges a number of problems consisting of abuse, neglect, and generally awful conditions at detention centers managed by ICE. One issue which has particularly gained prominence in the media, is the unusually high number of hysterectomies performed. To quote the report,

Ms. Wooten also expressed concern regarding the high numbers of detained immigrant women at ICDC receiving hysterectomies. She stated that while some women have heavy menstruation or other severe issues that would require hysterectomy, “everybody’s uterus cannot be that bad.” Ms. Wooten explained:


Everybody he sees has a hysterectomy—just about everybody. He’s even
taken out the wrong ovary on a young lady [detained immigrant woman].
She was supposed to get her left ovary removed because it had a cyst on
the left ovary; he took out the right one. She was upset. She had to go back
to take out the left and she wound up with a total hysterectomy. She still
wanted children—so she has to go back home now and tell her husband
that she can’t bear kids… she said she was not all the way out under
anesthesia and heard him [doctor] tell the nurse that he took the wrong
ovary.


Ms. Wooten also stated that detained women expressed to her that they didn’t fully understand why they had to get a hysterectomy. She said: “I’ve had several inmates tell me that they’ve been to see the doctor and they’ve had hysterectomies and they don’t know why they went or why they’re going.” And if the immigrants do understand what they’re getting done, “some of them a lot of times won’t even go, they say they’ll wait to get back to their country to go to the doctor.” The rate at which the hysterectomies have occurred have been a red flag for Ms. Wooten and other nurses at ICDC. Ms. Wooten explained:

We’ve questioned among ourselves like goodness he’s taking everybody’s
stuff out…That’s his specialty, he’s the uterus collector. I know that’s
ugly…is he collecting these things or something...Everybody he sees, he’s
taking all their uteruses out or he’s taken their tubes out. What in the
world.

I don't expect a peep out of the conservatives on this Forum, after all, the sentiment here is that illegal immigrants are illegal. This is ultimately their fault, they shouldn't be here in the first place, yadda yadda yadda. I think it is both disturbing and shameful that being an illegal immigrant apparently "justifies" this kind of treatment. Regardless of your stance on borders and immigration, I think all members of the Forum can agree that all human beings deserve due process and humane treatment. At the very least, these serious allegations deserve further scrutiny, and if the White House denies that these allegations have any merit, then they should fully co-operate with any investigation.

[Lord Thesaurian]

I’m not sure what investigations normally take place dealing with allegations of medical malpractice at federal detention centers. There are several House committees with oversight power over these matters, and Pelosi has called for an investigation into DHS. I don’t see what “conservatives” have to do with it, but hey, bait is bait.

[Love Mountain]

I don’t see what “conservatives” have to do with it, but hey, bait is bait.

The use of detention as a means of deterrence is a conservative project. As is the origin of ICE in general, and continued support for such policies. Deportations are down compared to Obama, yet the number of detainees is higher, and they are held longer.

[Prodromos]

I don't expect a peep out of the conservatives on this Forum, after all, the sentiment here is that illegal immigrants are illegal.

I've been posting about anti-immigrant abuses in the D&D Community Thread for years.

[Cope]

I’m not sure what investigations normally take place dealing with allegations of medical malpractice at federal detention centers. There are several House committees with oversight power over these matters, and Pelosi has called for an investigation into DHS. I don’t see what “conservatives” have to do with it, but hey, bait is bait.

To clarify:

• The false equivalence between migrant centres and concentration camps (i.e. the Holocaust) has been refuted elsewhere.

• The suggestion that the migrant centres are unique to the Trump administration (there was a convenient lack of interest when Obama was president) has also been rebuked.

• The allegations about non-consensual hysterectomies are yet to be substantiated.

Though as you say, bait is bait.

[antaeus]

I don't see any problem with identifying that there is a systemic problem with abuse that has spanned multiple presidencies? OP is a little too jaded...

[Love Mountain]

I don't see any problem with identifying that there is a systemic problem with abuse that has spanned multiple presidencies? OP is a little too jaded...

The massive rise in deportations actually started under Bill Clinton. He passed the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigration Responsibility Act in 1996. This massively increased the scope of border authorities and deportation guidelines. On the subject of Obama, don't forget that Obama is responsible for DACA, he campaigned on immigration reform, and he attempted to expand protections for immigrants several times.

Is he really a Deporter-In-Chief?

Meanwhile, which party campaigns on immigration, which President has continued these horrible policies, and which party repeatedly challenged Obama on immigration reform? It's not me being jaded, it's just the reality. As the poster who I quoted below amply demonstrates, some people prefer to discuss perceived double standards instead of simply condemning current practices and the party that endorses them.

To clarify:

• The false equivalence between migrant centres and concentration camps (i.e. the Holocaust) have been refuted elsewhere.

• The suggestion that the migrant centres are unique to the Trump administration (there was a convenient lack of interest when Obama was president) has also been rebuked.

• The allegations about non-consensual hysterectomies are yet to be substantiated.

Though as you say, bait is bait.

All of these are false, and these arguments haven't been "refuted". Though you're welcome to believe they were.

[Lord Thesaurian]

The use of detention as a means of deterrence is a conservative project. As is the origin of ICE in general, and continued support for such policies. Deportations are down compared to Obama, yet the number of detainees is higher, and they are held longer.

Mandatory detention was officially authorized by President Bill Clinton in 1996, with the enactment of the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty and the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility acts.[clarification needed] From 1996 to 1998, the number of immigrants in detention increased from 8,500 to 16,000[5] and by 2008 this number increased to more than 30,000.[6][7] According to the Global Detention Project, the United States possesses the largest immigration detention system in the world.[8] In 2003, the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency (ICE) was created under the Department of Homeland Security. ICE enforces the United States' immigration and customs laws, uses investigative techniques to apprehend and detain those suspected of violating them, and then deports many of these individuals. The Office of Detention and Removal Operations (DRO), housed within ICE, oversees the detention and deportation of immigrants taken into custody by ICE. Currently, ICE detains immigrants in over 200 detention centers (including privatized facilities), in state and local jails, in juvenile detention centers, and in shelters.[9]

The Obama administration promised to overhaul the immigration detention system and transform it into one that is less punitive, more centralized, and more transparent.[7] However, immigrant rights groups raised concerns about ongoing abuses against detainees. ICE officials were pressured to increase detention and deportation quotas to fulfill the agency's annual goal. A 2010 memo issued by James M. Chaparro, the chief of ICE's Detention and Removal Operations, "congratulated agents for reaching the agency's goal of '150,000 criminal alien removals' for the year ending Sept. 30" but "instructed agents to pick up the pace of deportations by detaining more noncitizens suspected only of unauthorized residence."[82] Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano also publicly endorsed the Secure Communities deportation initiative, which has "rapidly expanded" under the Obama administration, expressing a hope in 2009 that the program would expand to all of the United States by 2013.[83]

I wouldn’t call Bill Clinton conservative, but then, I suppose anyone to the right of Bernie is “conservative” these days. These detention centers have been a lightning rod for activists and human rights groups since then. Is the point of your thread that immigration detention centers are bad? That conservatives are hypocritical holes? If your focus is primarily on these latest allegations of medical malpractice, there isn’t much to discuss pending an actual investigation. I suppose we can debate how conservative Bill Clinton is and whose “fault” it is in the meantime.

[Love Mountain]

I wouldn’t call Bill Clinton conservative, but then, I suppose anyone to the right of Bernie is “conservative” these days. These detention centers have been a lightning rod for activists and human rights groups since then. Is the point of your thread that immigration detention centers are bad? That conservatives are hypocritical holes? If your focus is primarily on these latest allegations of medical malpractice, there isn’t much to discuss pending an actual investigation. I suppose we can debate how conservative Bill Clinton is and whose “fault” it is in the meantime.

You do realize that ICE was founded in 2003 right? Moreover, the point of this thread, is to discuss immigration police. One party is perfectly okay with continuing the current trajectory of immigration and border enforcement, another party condemns these practices and wants to reform the law. As for conservatives. Yeah, they have no issue supporting these detention centers and these conditions. After all they’ve allowed Trump to do as he pleases. And I have no issue calling them s for doing so.

But by all means, talk about Bill Clinton instead of the current political climate and where each party wants this issue to go.

[Lord Thesaurian]

You do realize that ICE was founded in 2003 right? Moreover, the point of this thread, is to discuss immigration police. One party is perfectly okay with continuing the current trajectory of immigration and border enforcement, another party condemns these practices and wants to reform the law. As for conservatives. Yeah, they have no issue supporting these detention centers and these conditions. After all they’ve allowed Trump to do as he pleases. And I have no issue calling them s for doing so.

But by all means, talk about Bill Clinton instead of the current political climate and where each party wants this issue to go.

OK, so you’re mainly mad at Trump, and conservatives by association, regardless of the details. Thanks for clarifying.

[Love Mountain]

Not a peep on his immigration policies. Thanks for letting us know you silently approve.

[Sir Adrian]

I don't expect a peep out of the conservatives on this Forum, after all, the sentiment here is that illegal immigrants are illegal. This is ultimately their fault, they shouldn't be here in the first place, yadda yadda yadda. I think it is both disturbing and shameful that being an illegal immigrant apparently "justifies" this kind of treatment. Regardless of your stance on borders and immigration, I think all members of the Forum can agree that all human beings deserve due process and humane treatment. At the very least, these serious allegations deserve further scrutiny, and if the White House denies that these allegations have any merit, then they should fully co-operate with any investigation.

Illegal immigrants ARE illegal, that's why they are called illegal immigrants and not just immigrants.

So far there is no evidence backing up the claims aside for he said she said stories that may or may not be true and like "it felt like a concentration camp". We should let the competent authorities investigate the matter and if the doctor actually did all those things he should spend a cool decade in jail. Casting shade at anybody at this stage is not going to accomplish anything worthwhile.

The use of detention as a means of deterrence is a conservative project. As is the origin of ICE in general, and continued support for such policies. Deportations are down compared to Obama, yet the number of detainees is higher, and they are held longer.

Hate to break it to you but all European countries also use detention of illegals until they can be processed and/or repatriated. This is standard procedure. In fact ICE is extremely "progressive" in terms of how it treats its illegal immigrants, most countries do not allow illegals to stay and have institutions to look for and repatriate illegals.

[Love Mountain]

Illegal immigrants ARE illegal, that's why they are called illegal immigrants and not just immigrants.

So far there is no evidence backing up the claims aside for he said she said stories that may or may not be true and like "it felt like a concentration camp". We should let the competent authorities investigate the matter and if the doctor actually did all those things he should spend a cool decade in jail. Casting shade at anybody at this stage is not going to accomplish anything worthwhile.

The backlog of evidence and accusations against ICE’s conditions in detention center is long. Yet neither the White House nor the Republicans have responded to criticism with transparency.

Hate to break it to you but all European countries also use detention of illegals until they can be processed and/or repatriated. This is standard procedure. In fact ICE is extremely "progressive" in terms of how it treats its illegal immigrants, most countries do not allow illegals to stay and have institutions to look for and repatriate illegals.

Sorry, am I supposed to approve of treating detained immigrants badly because other countries do it too? Are you going to stick with this line of argumentation?

[Sir Adrian]

Accusations are meaningless without proof. So could you point me to some of that evidence? Why would the republican party respond to anything? Is ICE not a federal agency? Or are you trying to imply that abuses existed only under republican rule and they magically stopped while president weaksauce was in charge.

Sorry, am I supposed to approve of treating detained immigrants badly because other countries do it too? Are you going to stick with this line of argumentation?

They're not detained immigrants, they're detaining illegals nobody knows anything about. Detainment is not mistreatment it's common sense. You need to know who is coming into your country and what is their purpose. Only an imbecile lets everyone in with no background checks and no filters.

Or is what's happening in Stockholm and the various incidents in Germany a good and desirable thing to you? Because that is what you get when you don't process immigrants. Are you really going to stick with this line of argumentation?

[Love Mountain]

Accusations are meaningless without proof. So could you point me to some of that evidence?

Lawyers warn that kids are taking care of kids, and there’s inadequate food, water and sanitation for the 250 infants, children and teens at the Border Patrol station.
serious deficiencies such as significant understaffing, failure to provide sufficient mental health observation, and inadequate monitoring of detainees with criminal histories.
A Cuban asylum-seeker in Eloy was put in a section of the prison with people who had tested positive earlier this month, after she went to the doctor with trouble breathing. She insisted that it was her asthma, and she responded to asthma medication, but her cellmate had tested positive, so she was forced to wait for her results with people who had been infected. ICE has refused to grant her parole on humanitarian grounds, despite several attacks in the last month.

Why would the republican party respond to anything? Is ICE not a federal agency?

I'm not sure what your point here is.

Or are you trying to imply that abuses existed only under republican rule and they magically stopped while president weaksauce was in charge.

No? But Trump is significantly worse in his immigration agenda.

They're not detained immigrants, they're detaining illegals nobody knows anything about. Detainment is not mistreatment it's common sense. You need to know who is coming into your country and what is their purpose. Only an imbecile lets everyone in with no background checks and no filters.

What does detaining people, have to do with keeping them in sub-standard conditions? If you're going to detain people, keep them in decent conditions.

Or is what's happening in Stockholm and the various incidents in Germany a good and desirable thing to you? Because that is what you get when you don't process immigrants. Are you really going to stick with this line of argumentation?

So you're okay with treating immigrants like animals, all you had to say. As an aside, if this occurs anywhere else, that's obviously not okay either.

[Prodromos]

Why assume the immigrants in question are illegal? I skimmed the report in the OP and there's no mention of their legal status.

If ICE is innocent until proven guilty, the same standard should apply to the immigrants under their ward. They're legal until proven otherwise.

[Love Mountain]

Why assume the immigrants in question are illegal? I skimmed the report in the OP and there's no mention of their legal status.

If ICE is innocent until proven guilty, the same standard should apply to the immigrants under their ward. They're legal until proven otherwise.

Well there is also the question of whether it's even necessary to detain them if they have no criminal record. Most people should be able to wait for their hearing in the comfort of their home if they are not a flight risk, or really, if they are not a dangerous criminal. I'm sure it's necessary to detain many people, but probably nowhere near as many as we are detaining now.

[Sir Adrian]

Why assume the immigrants in question are illegal? I skimmed the report in the OP and there's no mention of their legal status.

If ICE is innocent until proven guilty, the same standard should apply to the immigrants under their ward. They're legal until proven otherwise.

Legal immigrants are per-processed in their respective countries, ICE has no reason to hold any of them. In fact ICE has very little to do with legal immigrants. Also the article more or less confirms it's about illegal immigrants.

Lawyers warn that kids are taking care of kids, and there’s inadequate food, water and sanitation for the 250 infants, children and teens at the Border Patrol station.
serious deficiencies such as significant understaffing, failure to provide sufficient mental health observation, and inadequate monitoring of detainees with criminal histories.
A Cuban asylum-seeker in Eloy was put in a section of the prison with people who had tested positive earlier this month, after she went to the doctor with trouble breathing. She insisted that it was her asthma, and she responded to asthma medication, but her cellmate had tested positive, so she was forced to wait for her results with people who had been infected. ICE has refused to grant her parole on humanitarian grounds, despite several attacks in the last month.

So a few incidents that otherwise show that the system functions humanely. Those cases should be looked into but a handful of incidents is not the national catastrophe you paint it to be.

I'm not sure what your point here is.

You blamed the republican party for the behaviour of ICE. I asked you why is the fossil party to blame? Is ICE an agency of the fossil party? No? The they are not responsible for how it is run. Responsability for the actions of ICE lay squarely at the feet of leadership structures and employees of ICE. Not president orangutan, not president weaksauce and neither of the two parties.

No? But Trump is significantly worse in his immigration agenda.

According to what authority? Your own personal opinion on the matter is meaningless. As is everybody else's.

What does detaining people, have to do with keeping them in sub-standard conditions? If you're going to detain people, keep them in decent conditions.

So you're okay with treating immigrants like animals, all you had to say. As an aside, if this occurs anywhere else, that's obviously not okay either.

They're not kept in substandard conditions as far as I know. Besides I don't think you know what substandard means. Google the immigrant shelters in Germany and France? Or better yet take a trip to Calais and see one for yourself.

No I am not ok with treating ILLEGAL immigrants like animals, they should be treated like suspects until they are cleared though a background check. I never said anywhere that I am ok with treating them like animals nor did anybody else. You just pulled that out of your ass.


Anyway let's recap, since you are clearly not getting why detention is necessary. We both agree that processing immigrants is necessary, be they legal or otherwise. Last year the US saw up to 4000 illegal immigrants per day from Mexico alone. What method of processing those 4000 immigrants per day do you propose - given that a background check can take days, there is a major global pandemic going on, and terrorist threats and cartel threats were higher than ever before in the past few years.

I am eagerly awaiting your solution that does not involve some form of detention.

[Lord Thesaurian]

I for one favor a pragmatic approach that offers the millions of illegal aliens living and working in the US for decades a pathway to legal status and even citizenship in exchange for military or other acceptable public service, including those who fail to appear in court, a figure that has increased 69% in recent years (2011-2015). This is a magnanimous option that gives these illegal immigrants the gift of living and working in our country, something to which they are by no means entitled. This has been a problem for decades, regardless of how badly the OP would like to employ the “silence is complicity” sloganeering that has become the emotional rallying cry of “la resistance” vs Trump.

Historical trends indicate that 62 percent of the aliens released will eventually be issued final orders of removal by the U.S. Department of Justice Executive Office of Immigration Review (EOIR) and later fail to surrender for removal or abscond.

https://www.oig.dhs.gov/assets/Mgmt/OIG_06-33_Apr06.pdf

[The Guy With No Imagination]

re: "Citizenship in exchange for military or other acceptable public service."


https://www.npr.org/local/309/2019/0...-they-defended


I imagine these numbers have only gone up due to the incumbent administration.

I mean, we're also deporting legal U.S. citizens, so why not right?

A boy who arrived in the U.S. as a refugee and acquired his citizenship when his parents made it ove:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-a...erica-n1130001

A Mexican-American who presented State ID, Social Security, and pocket Birth Certificate

https://www.npr.org/2019/07/25/74541...tion-officials

American permanent resident & family gets their status revoked after a decade of living here

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ce-deportation


I always laugh at the people saying "Just come here lEgaLly" as if it was so easy. I'd wager the majority of people making those arguments are incapable or would not be able to pass the "legal" requirements, which can change drastically from administration to administration and are essentially arbitrary preferences over the color and language of people coming over.

Trump talks a lot about "anchor babies" for example - especially when talking about Mexican & Central American mothers and children being born here in the U.S. - yet he makes money off of "Birth Tourism" and Eastern European (and unsurprisingly, mostly Russian) women coming to the U.S. for the explicit reason of having their children get U.S. citizenship and using that to bring the rest of their families over.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/trave...om/3244087002/

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russia...to-us-citizens

-------------------------------------

Immigration Reform has been a hot topic for years - and in 2013 there was a real chance of implementing change: the Gang of 8 Bi-Partisan Senate immigration bill that was killed on the Republican-controlled House of Reps. floor. Interestingly enough, Republicans Marco Rubio and Lindsey Graham BOTH helped write the bill - and were mercilessly attacked by Trump and his campaign as being soft, lawbreaker/drug dealer/rape-apologists during the '15-16 primaries to the point that both of them ended up pulling their support for a bill they co-write.

So yeah, Trump is doing things a bit worse than prior admins, both Rep & Dem.

But whoever reads this has likely already made up their mind on the subject and wont be convinced either way, or come up with some strawman-"bu whu abut back in ye olden past times dur hur hur", because the internet is just a place where people come to stick their heads up their asses and tell everyone around how much their smells like flowers.

Still tho.