Hummer from Classmate = Dime in the Slammer

[Erich von Manstein]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/etick...ry?page=wilson

What truly makes this disturbing is that several female teachers in the US have been convicted of having consensual sex with students 10+ years their junior in the past few years. Some of them received probation. The worst punishment handed down was a few years under house arrest. I've always felt that the judicial system here is biased against men, black men in particular, but this determined it for me.

I became very grateful for the fact that I was typically involved with older girls back in my high school days after reading this story and then discovering that the statute of limitations in most states for all sex crimes is 10 years after the "victim" turns 18. I understand that these laws were created to catch sex offenders but I've read of at least 5 cases in the past year (including this one) where high school students are falling between the cracks.

Thoughts? Comments?

[Stalins Ghost]

That's a horrific miscarriage in justice in my eyes, simple as. The very fact that there is no victim; bar of course him who has been failed by the system. If you look past the sentimental appeals in that article, you can see a very clear legal inefficiency. The system has failed him, and thanks to legislative bull crap, is failing to help.

[Erich von Manstein]

The very fact that there is no victim; bar of course him who has been failed by the system.

Sadly, the law schools in this country are doing nothing to help the situation. They train future lawyers to read and apply the law but not to understand it.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

I feel sorry for him
The system has indeed failed him.
These sort of cases should be thrown out.
Child molestation my rear-end. He was just 2 years older then here.
This was nothing more then a teenage act and should be treated as such.
And then give him 10 years for it.

[the Black Prince]

why am i not surprised?

because we have the same law in the UK.

The Sexual Offences Act 2003 contains 2 offences regarding child sex, one of intercourse with a child under 13, and one of intercourse with a child under 16 (the consent age).

two students, in the same year at school, one turns 16, the other is still 15 for another month. On his 16th birthday, the "older" boy recieves oral sex from his 15yr old girlfriend. Totally consensual, initiated by the girl.
He has just committed a criminal offence with a punishment on average between 5-7 years long.

Thankfully, in the UK, weh ave a thing called prosecutorial discretion. In the case i outlined, which seems similar to the one in the article, its very unlikely any prosecution would be bought, should they be caught in the act. The CPS have two questions, is there enough evidence, is it in the public interest. This type of case is considered to fail the public interest test. its of no benefit to anyone that that boy is punished.

But it remains a fact that he HAS broken the law, and the law is not an archaic one either, the 2003 act is even more stringent than its 1956 predecessor.

[the_mango55]

Thankfully, in the UK, weh ave a thing called prosecutorial discretion. In the case i outlined, which seems similar to the one in the article, its very unlikely any prosecution would be bought, should they be caught in the act. The CPS have two questions, is there enough evidence, is it in the public interest. This type of case is considered to fail the public interest test. its of no benefit to anyone that that boy is punished.

We have the same thing.

Unfortunately we also have District Attorneys (head prosecutor in a city) who will do anything to get reelected, and that usually involves showing how "tough on crime" you are. For example, look at the recent rape case involving the Duke lacrosse players. The whole thing was completely fabricated, and it cost the players their season (#1 ranked preseason), cost their coach his job, and the rape accusation will stick with them forever. And the DA knew from the very beginning that the evidence was shady at best.

[LoZz]

ok, i think firstly it is worth pointing out the diffrence in attitudes towards sex with each gender.

i personally cant see any 15 year old male student having any regrets about sleeping with his 23 year old female teacher, and as far as all his friends are concerned makes him a stud.


however i can see a girl of the same age being stupid and confused and doing it thinking its going to help her grades and then horrible regreating it in the morning.


now i am not saying that this removes the child of reasoncibilty, nor am i saying this is always the case but this is generally speaking how it works from my own exsperance from the attitudes of kids at that age, this is why sentances for men tend to be harsher. because nether situation removes the adult from resoncibilty regardless of the kids feelings and it should be obvious when someone is confused and uncomfortable about it.

now i feel that women do get a much easyer sentence, and their is a little bias but i put it down mostly to the student in question not wanting to press charges and saying he enjoyed it, which i think is typical for a teenaged boy. where as a girl may realise how stupid and dump she was and press for charges. and at the end of the day the adult has to be the responcible one here.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/etick...ry?page=wilson

What truly makes this disturbing is that several female teachers in the US have been convicted of having consensual sex with students 10+ years their junior in the past few years. Some of them received probation. The worst punishment handed down was a few years under house arrest. I've always felt that the judicial system here is biased against men, black men in particular, but this determined it for me.

I became very grateful for the fact that I was typically involved with older girls back in my high school days after reading this story and then discovering that the statute of limitations in most states for all sex crimes is 10 years after the "victim" turns 18. I understand that these laws were created to catch sex offenders but I've read of at least 5 cases in the past year (including this one) where high school students are falling between the cracks.

Thoughts? Comments?

i put this down 100%to him being black, see my responce to black princes quote for why.

why am i not surprised?

because we have the same law in the UK.

The Sexual Offences Act 2003 contains 2 offences regarding child sex, one of intercourse with a child under 13, and one of intercourse with a child under 16 (the consent age).

two students, in the same year at school, one turns 16, the other is still 15 for another month. On his 16th birthday, the "older" boy recieves oral sex from his 15yr old girlfriend. Totally consensual, initiated by the girl.
He has just committed a criminal offence with a punishment on average between 5-7 years long.

Thankfully, in the UK, weh ave a thing called prosecutorial discretion. In the case i outlined, which seems similar to the one in the article, its very unlikely any prosecution would be bought, should they be caught in the act. The CPS have two questions, is there enough evidence, is it in the public interest. This type of case is considered to fail the public interest test. its of no benefit to anyone that that boy is punished.

But it remains a fact that he HAS broken the law, and the law is not an archaic one either, the 2003 act is even more stringent than its 1956 predecessor.

underage sex happens all the time, its very very common for a 15 year old to be sleeping with a 16 year old etc, etc. when i was in school the girls at 15 all had older boy friends, some in their 20s. and everyone knew, even some of the parents did but none of these boys EVER got arrest.

in the uk atlest, the police and the courts use prosecutorial discretion and they use it all the time, i personally have never hered of a 16 year old being arrested for sleeping with a 15 year old and doubt we ever will, i dont think the courts are that stupid.

so while that unfair and possibly stupid situation could happen, ive never hered of it and i doubt it ever will, common sense usually wins the day. unless of course your black and live in the usa.

[Sidmen]

We need to write an addendum to this law, stating that if the 'child' lies about his/her age to the offender that it isn't a crime.

I also support the 3 years addendum, where if two people are within 3 years of each other, it isn't molestation.

[the Black Prince]

this is why we don't politicise any aspect of our criminal justice system. Chief Crown Prosecutors are appointed by the Director of Public Prosecutions, and neither the government nor the public has any say on who gets the job...

of course, the DPP answers to the Solicitor-General, who answers to the Attorney-General, who is a cabinet minister, but that doesn't prevent the DPP being impartial. In fact, the current DPP recently criticised the governments anti-terror laws in a speech to the Criminal Bar Association.

Anyways, having judges and attorneys run for office is such an incredibly bad idea. People shouldn't get to decide criminal justice, because the people will always look to be punish, and won't think of the mitigating factors in the case that are always legally relevant. How can anyone expect to prosecute justly and fairly if they have to fight for public opinion? Thats effectively mob rule

[Aristophanes]

this is why we don't politicise any aspect of our criminal justice system. Chief Crown Prosecutors are appointed by the Director of Public Prosecutions, and neither the government nor the public has any say on who gets the job...

of course, the DPP answers to the Solicitor-General, who answers to the Attorney-General, who is a cabinet minister, but that doesn't prevent the DPP being impartial. In fact, the current DPP recently criticised the governments anti-terror laws in a speech to the Criminal Bar Association.

Anyways, having judges and attorneys run for office is such an incredibly bad idea. People shouldn't get to decide criminal justice, because the people will always look to be punish, and won't think of the mitigating factors in the case that are always legally relevant. How can anyone expect to prosecute justly and fairly if they have to fight for public opinion? Thats effectively mob rule

Absolutely agree. Rule of law, anyone?

[danzig]

Absolutely disgusting, no way in hell should he be in jail for this. It is made even more disgusting is you are right, there have been many recent cases of female teachers being involved with much younger students and despite similar laws being in effect getting little more then a slap on the wrist but here we have basically a kid (17 yr olds!) serving time for sex with a 15 yr old. The damage has been done to this guy, even if his sentence did get overturn look at what he has lost, what he has had to endure at such a young age. And how 'nice' of the prosecutor to suggest he should have taken the plea deal, what a choice be branded a sex offender or long prison term for someone who is innocent. God forbid someone have the faith in believing hey since I didnt do anything why should I be concede any guilt. Stupid laws like this need to be rewritten to take the context of the act into account or at the very least if it insist on set ages take age difference into account, there is a big difference between a 17 and 15 yr old having sex and a 40 yr old and a 15 yr old.

[Erich von Manstein]

And if you're really lucky (and also happen to be a Representative for the glorious state of Massachusetts by the name of Gerry Studds), not only can you avoid any punishment for having sex with a minor, but your constitutents will keep electing you for another 14 years!

[ForgottenImmortal]

Who brought the case against Genarlow? Whoever did should be ashamed for the rest of their lives. If it was the girl's parents, they are disgusting. Truely disgusting. Racist pigs probably too.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

Who brought the case against Genarlow? Whoever did should be ashamed for the rest of their lives. If it was the girl's parents, they are disgusting. Truely disgusting. Racist pigs probably too.

Well reading the article it seemed the girl did.
However according to article her mother agreed that her daughter started and wanted to have sex.

Edit: yep

On tape, the cops saw a 15-year-old girl, a 10th-grader, performing oral sex on a partygoer and, after finishing with him, turning and performing the act on Genarlow. She was the instigator, according to her mother's testimony. Problem was, the girl was a year under the age of consent. Local prosecutors called the act aggravated child molestation, following the letter and not the spirit of the law, which was designed to prosecute pedophiles.

[danzig]

Who brought the case against Genarlow? Whoever did should be ashamed for the rest of their lives. If it was the girl's parents, they are disgusting. Truely disgusting. Racist pigs probably too.

No, I wouldnt call it racist what it is imo is sexist...the laws and their enforcement are slanted against males you'll notice the article mentions another case similar and Ive seen more then a few incidents like this over the years in the media. A 40 yr old female has sex with a willing 15 yr old male and its "wow lucky kid" but when roles are reversed (and in this case with an amazingly stupid age difference of 2 years both still being teens) the male is a sick pervert. In reality if someone is 40 and banging a 15 yr old they are sick and perverted (imo) regardless of their sex but its absolutely insane that a 17 yr old male gets thrown in jail when a 40 yr old female gets counseling or house arrest.

[Erich von Manstein]

Who brought the case against Genarlow?

It was the local police. One of the girls called her parents from the party and told them she had been raped (despite the video showing that she clearly had consented). The police showed up and confiscated the video tape on which Genarlow was shown receiving oral sex from a 15 year old. Call it the R. Kelly effect, just with far more serious repercussions. The local prosecutor decided there was enough evidence on the tape to charge him and you know the rest.

[Lavastein]

thats so stupid. change the damn law. under 13 is illegal. that should deal with it.

[the Black Prince]

hold on, you cannot say he is innocent. he is not. he broke the law.

having sexual activity with someone underage is illegal. as far as the law is concerned, there is no distinction between someone who is 17 and someone who 71. neither is there a distinction between the childs consent or non consent, because legally, a person underage lacks the capacity to give consent, so its always treated as non-consensual

to be honest, i'm dissapointed in you all. the last time i raised the issue of how stupid our laws of consent were, that a 16yr old could get prosecuted and jailed for having consensual sex with his 15yr old girlfriend and i got shouted down and accused of paedophilia just for advocating that that scenario was wrong.

and now you know a situation where someone actually IS prosecuted and jailed... all i can say is, told you so

[Lavastein]

hold on, you cannot say he is innocent. he is not. he broke the law.

having sexual activity with someone underage is illegal. as far as the law is concerned, there is no distinction between someone who is 17 and someone who 71. neither is there a distinction between the childs consent or non consent, because legally, a person underage lacks the capacity to give consent, so its always treated as non-consensual

to be honest, i'm dissapointed in you all. the last time i raised the issue of how stupid our laws of consent were, that a 16yr old could get prosecuted and jailed for having consensual sex with his 15yr old girlfriend and i got shouted down and accused of paedophilia just for advocating that that scenario was wrong.

and now you know a situation where someone actually IS prosecuted and jailed... all i can say is, told you so

well i agree with you 200% the law is so unfair and stupid. The problem is other people dont see it our way. They will call you a pedo and stuff. Almost no point

[danzig]

to be honest, i'm dissapointed in you all. the last time i raised the issue of how stupid our laws of consent were, that a 16yr old could get prosecuted and jailed for having consensual sex with his 15yr old girlfriend and i got shouted down and accused of paedophilia just for advocating that that scenario was wrong.

and now you know a situation where someone actually IS prosecuted and jailed... all i can say is, told you so

Off the high horse please, I remember that thread and there were a number of people who agreed about the stupidity of the law that doesnt allow for the difference between ages. The fact a law is a law takes nothing away from the fact that it is poorly designed one especially when its applied unevenly especially with regards to women/men.