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Thread: Resource and Province map

  1. #21

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Fox View Post
    Sparta?
    Sparta? How did it not exist back then?
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  2. #22

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Sparta? How did it not exist back then?
    Like this:
    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Yeap. Dorian city-states are there for example, and they came over after the Trojan war. Take Sparta for example. They came to be a polis like 400 years after the Trojan war. There was a small village a mile or so from where ancient Sparta was. Byzantium is also in the map. Byzantium was a colony of shorts from Megara.
    In 1200 BC, Megara didn't exist, let alone Byzantium. The town of Byzantium was established somewhere in the 8th or 7th century BC.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Yes, in the 1500 years since the Troyan war to the early middle ages, 1000 city states came and go. You want to be more generous? In the 1200 years since the Troyan war till the fall of the last Hellenistic province to the Romans, there have been 1000 city states.


    So, the question now is obviously:
    Who would create a mod using that huge map for ... something different? We already have a R2TW mod for the fall of Greece to the Romans.


    Perhaps a Phillip/Early Alexander mod about uniting Greece and invading the Greek Satraps?
    Or how about a campaign that doesn't revolve around a specific large, map-spanning conflict? I've always preferred my Total Wars to be sandboxy. Just pick an interesting period in Greek history where the map was nice and fractured (that should be hard), with plenty of rivalries and hostilities to set the stage, then let us loose on it.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Fox View Post
    Like this:
    Megara is not city state in the game map. Byzantium doesn't exist in the game map as well. Sparta is presented as a city state as Menelaus is labeled as king of Sparta in the Illiad. Sparta existed before the Dorian invasion. Whether it was a small village or a city state at the time of Trojan war is as good of a guess as any other.

    Sparta and Laconia. A regional history 1300 to 362:
    As we have seen, the archaeological picture for the Mycenaean occupation has been clarified by the recent (and not yet finally published) British excavations, but there is still no conclusive corroboration of the widespread view that this was the palatial seat of a Mycenaean Menelaos. The settlement was undoubtedly the central place of Mycenaean Lakonia, but archaeologically all we have is a well-appointed ‘mansion’ reoccupied partially, after a gap of more than a century, during LH IIIB (‘Dawkins House’) and then destroyed by fire, together with its store of sealed winejars, towards the end of the same phase.
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  5. #25

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Megara is not city state in the game map. Byzantium doesn't exist in the game map as well. Sparta is presented as a city state as Menelaus is labeled as king of Sparta in the Illiad.
    Correct, but the Iliad is not historical.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Sparta existed before the Dorian invasion.
    As far as I know, there is no evidence of a Dorian invasion.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Whether it was a small village or a city state at the time of Trojan war is as good of a guess as any other.
    And yet you say it already existed. That means there is archaeological proof of a settlement from that period that you could identify as Sparta. Yet this same evidence can not be used to distinguish small village from powerful city state?

  6. #26
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    Indeed, the Dorian invasion is very doubtful. The whole process of identity creation has been revised over the last decades. What follows: the strict distinction between Achaeians, Ionians and others is not historical. But are the Amazons historical? This is a mythological game.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    the strict distinction between Achaeians, Ionians and others is not historical.
    Well, it's not all that strict, you can confederate with all of them.

  8. #28
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Iliad is not Silmarillion. It's history with fantasy elements. You have yet to name a made up city state in that map that didn't exist back then.
    I mentioned several. As said: All Dorian cities.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Yeap. Dorian city-states are there for example, and they came over after the Trojan war. Take Sparta for example. They came to be a polis like 400 years after the Trojan war. There was a small village a mile or so from where ancient Sparta was. Byzantium is also in the map. Byzantium was a colony of shorts from Megara.
    In 1200 BC, Megara didn't exist, let alone Byzantium. The town of Byzantium was established somewhere in the 8th or 7th century BC.
    DIE: Diversity, Inclusion, Equality (Pun on SJWs, I am not far-right)
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    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
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  9. #29

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    I mentioned several. As said: All Dorian cities.
    Look 3 posts up.
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

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