Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 29

Thread: Resource and Province map

  1. #1
    Gigantus's Avatar I am thinking more about running away now then I did as a kid, but by the time I put my teeth in, my glasses on and find my car keys I forget why I am going.
    Moderator Emeritus Administrator Emeritus Modding Emeritus

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Goa - India
    Posts
    48,824
    Blog Entries
    23

    Default Resource and Province map

    This is courtesy of ScottRoot from totalwar.com, original thread here, do give the man a 'like' when you go there.

    Download here at TWC

    Original dimensions: 14654*9696\32MB\PNG format - way too big to post as original.

    Thumbnail (500*331):

    Last edited by Gigantus; August 28, 2020 at 10:46 PM.




  2. #2
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Chania, Greece
    Posts
    22,207

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    Holy crap... do they put every village in there? At that time, there were perhaps 300K people total in that area and I am probably being generous. Don't believe Homer's account of 100K warriors, that was simply not feasible.
    DIE: Diversity, Inclusion, Equality (Pun on SJWs, I am not far-right)
    _______________________________________________________
    Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.

    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  3. #3
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Cracovia
    Posts
    4,160

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    @Gigantus: thanks a lot!
    @ alhoon: it's a mythological game, not a historical one. We need to wait for good historical mods, scrapping all the crap.

  4. #4
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Prague
    Posts
    2,748

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    Nice one .)
    DMR: (R2) (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

  5. #5
    valky's Avatar Ducenarius
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    944

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    holy crap! All hail plankton err Gigantus. Thanks for posting it here....that is extremely helpful, specially for all that island-thingies.
    +kudos
    I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favourite store on the Citadel!
    I'm Garrus Vakarian and this is now my favourite spot on the Citadel!

    Better ingame Encyclopedia for Shogun 2 (reworked) - RotS - FotS (new map) + web-based version

  6. #6
    Gigantus's Avatar I am thinking more about running away now then I did as a kid, but by the time I put my teeth in, my glasses on and find my car keys I forget why I am going.
    Moderator Emeritus Administrator Emeritus Modding Emeritus

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Goa - India
    Posts
    48,824
    Blog Entries
    23

    Default Re: Resource and Province map





  7. #7

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    @Gigantus: thanks a lot!
    @ alhoon: it's a mythological game, not a historical one. We need to wait for good historical mods, scrapping all the crap.
    It's a game based on myths and literature. Why is it "crap" to have mythological elements in it?
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  8. #8
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Cracovia
    Posts
    4,160

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    Quote Originally Posted by Gromovnik View Post
    It's a game based on myths and literature. Why is it "crap" to have mythological elements in it?
    As you see in the @alhoon entry, he's uneasy already with the a-historical number of inhabitants in Hellas in Troy. I know his historical mods and I share his historical orientation. I expect him to consider those minotaurs and harpies to be unhistorical crap, but I may be wrong.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    The map consists of main settlements where couple of thousands would reside with 2-3 villages where a couple of hundred would reside. I don't see how this is somehow ahistorical where it suggests much more population present in the region.
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  10. #10
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Chania, Greece
    Posts
    22,207

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    I don't mind the minotaurs, that's game stuff. I play scifi and fantasy too.

    But... they used a historical setting for that mythical stuff. So I would expect something that more closely related to history.
    That must be 200-250 settlements there. 75 towns and a bunch of villages. As for the 2-3K and a couple of villages, that was simply not feasible in bronze age. Even in fertile Greece you needed a much greater rural population to support an urban population. To support 75 towns, let's say 50000 urban population*, you would need like half a million farmers and fishermen. That's 3500 years ago. There simply were not that many people.

    I see no real reason to have 200-250 settlements there aside of supporting a large number of factions. They could have easily do 100-120 settlements, with about 15 towns and 90 villages.

    *Assuming a handful of serious towns with priests, aristocrats, cobblers, merchants, technicians, artists, etc, etc. and the rest of the towns having a few hundred "Urbanites" and the rest working the farms outside the town.
    DIE: Diversity, Inclusion, Equality (Pun on SJWs, I am not far-right)
    _______________________________________________________
    Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.

    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  11. #11

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    Greek City-States
    There grew to be over 1,000 city-states in ancient Greece, but the main poleis were Athína (Athens), Spárti (Sparta), Kórinthos (Corinth), Thíva (Thebes), Siracusa (Syracuse), Égina (Aegina), Ródos (Rhodes), Árgos, Erétria, and Elis.
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  12. #12
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Chania, Greece
    Posts
    22,207

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    Yes, in the 1500 years since the Troyan war to the early middle ages, 1000 city states came and go. You want to be more generous? In the 1200 years since the Troyan war till the fall of the last Hellenistic province to the Romans, there have been 1000 city states.


    So, the question now is obviously:
    Who would create a mod using that huge map for ... something different? We already have a R2TW mod for the fall of Greece to the Romans.


    Perhaps a Phillip/Early Alexander mod about uniting Greece and invading the Greek Satraps?
    Last edited by alhoon; August 31, 2020 at 08:27 AM.
    DIE: Diversity, Inclusion, Equality (Pun on SJWs, I am not far-right)
    _______________________________________________________
    Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.

    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  13. #13

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Yes, in the 1500 years since the Troyan war to the early middle ages, 1000 city states came and go. You want to be more generous? In the 1200 years since the Troyan war till the fall of the last Hellenistic province to the Romans, there have been 1000 city states.

    So, the question now is obviously:
    Who would create a mod using that huge map for ... something different? We already have a R2TW mod for the fall of Greece to the Romans.

    Perhaps a Phillip/Early Alexander mod about uniting Greece and invading the Greek Satraps?
    All those settlement points on the map are from different times?
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  14. #14
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Chania, Greece
    Posts
    22,207

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    Yeap. Dorian city-states are there for example, and they came over after the Trojan war. Take Sparta for example. They came to be a polis like 400 years after the Trojan war. There was a small village a mile or so from where ancient Sparta was. Byzantium is also in the map. Byzantium was a colony of shorts from Megara.
    In 1200 BC, Megara didn't exist, let alone Byzantium. The town of Byzantium was established somewhere in the 8th or 7th century BC.
    DIE: Diversity, Inclusion, Equality (Pun on SJWs, I am not far-right)
    _______________________________________________________
    Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.

    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  15. #15

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Yeap. Dorian city-states are there for example, and they came over after the Trojan war. Take Sparta for example. They came to be a polis like 400 years after the Trojan war. There was a small village a mile or so from where ancient Sparta was. Byzantium is also in the map. Byzantium was a colony of shorts from Megara.
    In 1200 BC, Megara didn't exist, let alone Byzantium. The town of Byzantium was established somewhere in the 8th or 7th century BC.
    The map is from 500 BC while showing homelands of heroes in the Illiad. Feel free to pick a city state labeled in the map posted by Gigantus that didn't exist in the time of Trojan War.
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  16. #16
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Chania, Greece
    Posts
    22,207

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    The map is from 500 BC while showing homelands of heroes in the Illiad. Feel free to pick a city state labeled in the map posted by Gigantus that didn't exist in the time of Trojan War.
    And do you notice how many city states don't have a hero attached?
    DIE: Diversity, Inclusion, Equality (Pun on SJWs, I am not far-right)
    _______________________________________________________
    Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.

    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  17. #17

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    And do you notice how many city states don't have a hero attached?
    I don't think every city state would be able to create a hero worth remembering. Illiad itself lists more cities than heroes. Some heroes rule over multiple cities. There are dozens of it. Didn't Agamemnon alone offered seven cities to Achilles?
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  18. #18
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Chania, Greece
    Posts
    22,207

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Didn't Agamemnon alone offered seven cities to Achilles?
    Nope.
    Iliad may be among the best literary pieces of all time etc etc... but it's not historically accurate. It was meant to entertain, not preserve history.
    Last edited by alhoon; September 04, 2020 at 09:16 AM.
    DIE: Diversity, Inclusion, Equality (Pun on SJWs, I am not far-right)
    _______________________________________________________
    Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.

    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  19. #19

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Nope.
    Iliad may be among the best literary pieces of all time etc etc... but it's not historically accurate. It was meant to entertain, not preserve history.
    Iliad is not Silmarillion. It's history with fantasy elements. You have yet to name a made up city state in that map that didn't exist back then.
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  20. #20

    Default Re: Resource and Province map

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Iliad is not Silmarillion. It's history with fantasy elements. You have yet to name a made up city state in that map that didn't exist back then.
    Sparta?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •