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Thread: [Amendment] Getting rid of the praefects

  1. #61
    Flinn's Avatar His Dudeness of TWC
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Getting rid of the praefects

    Quote Originally Posted by Veteraan View Post
    Having had some experience with being a Censor and a Magistrate, I would say they are both difficult jobs when taken seriously. However, the Censor is probably a potentially more frustrating job in general, thanks to the elusive highers standards for Citizens that need to be uphold. This is of course about the pre 666 situation.

    I think Citizen referrals ultimately do more damage than they do good. Except in extreme cases, where almost all would agree a (harsh) punishment is warranted. Those are rare though. I would support switching the Citizen referral to using the red 'report button' so that our site Moderators can have a look at it. We then only have to match the existing penalties to what Moderation uses. Of course there would be no 'higher standards' cases anymore, but I for one would certainly shed no tears about that. I think that has been a flawed concept from the beginning.
    two holders of the Curial Award just supported the idea of removing the higher standards and the citizens referrals, and they know what they are talking about.. if this is not the moment to propose that change, when then?
    Under the patronage of Finlander, patron of Lugotorix & Lifthrasir & joerock22 & Socrates1984 & Kilo11 & Vladyvid & Dick Cheney & phazer & Jake Armitage & webba 84 of the Imperial House of Hader

  2. #62
    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Getting rid of the praefects

    That moment was already there several months ago, it was seized, the amendment to abolish citizen referrals passed - and then was never implemented due to all the brouhaha around Order 66. I think I'll get around to digging it up again and giving it a fresh makeover.
    "Non i titoli illustrano gli uomini, ma gli uomini i titoli." - Niccolo Machiavelli, Discorsi
    "Du musst die Sterne und den Mond enthaupten, und am besten auch den Zar. Die Gestirne werden sich behaupten, aber wahrscheinlich nicht der Zar." - Einstürzende Neubauten, Weil, Weil, Weil

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  3. #63
    Hitai de Bodemloze's Avatar 避世絕俗
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Getting rid of the praefects

    The Ostrakon bill was implemented, but referrals got bundled back into the Praefect role as part of Order 66 and re-introduced; kind of went under the radar, since most discussions at the time were about Curial moderation and non-citizen participation. So both systems are currently in the Constitution, and as it stands there's actually nothing stopping us from bypassing referrals all together and just Ostrakonning each other instead.

  4. #64
    Flinn's Avatar His Dudeness of TWC
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Getting rid of the praefects

    I need no Ostrakons.. I want no mentions to standards or behavior anymore, I don't want to have any opportunity for one citizen to hijack another citizen.. I just want the Curia to comply with the ToS, anyone who breaks the ToS gets an automatic suspension for the same period as the infraction is valid, just this..

    then for the technocrats we can still have the opportunity to expand on "what happens when the suspended citizen also holds a curial position" and "what that could imply for future applications of said citizen to the curial positions".. or even "after how many suspensions is the citizen stripped of their badge?"

    but please, let's get rid of those silly, inapplicable standards and let's stop the crossfire, the vendettas and all the personal references (allowing personal references in a place where people is supposed to "debate" and idea or a proposal is silly and ineffective IMO, wonder why it's not allowed in the D&D?)

    about Hader's order 66.. it's always Hader's fault, why you believe I tried to overthrow him for so long??
    Under the patronage of Finlander, patron of Lugotorix & Lifthrasir & joerock22 & Socrates1984 & Kilo11 & Vladyvid & Dick Cheney & phazer & Jake Armitage & webba 84 of the Imperial House of Hader

  5. #65
    General Brewster's Avatar The Flying Dutchman
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Getting rid of the praefects

    Can I get three supports so I can get this moving and ponder on why I never do amendments again? I would like to fade back into obscurity again.

  6. #66
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Getting rid of the praefects

    Support re-affirmed
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  7. #67
    Hitai de Bodemloze's Avatar 避世絕俗
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Getting rid of the praefects

    Quote Originally Posted by General Brewster View Post
    Can I get three supports so I can get this moving and ponder on why I never do amendments again? I would like to fade back into obscurity again.
    You'll never be obscure to us

  8. #68
    Gaius Baltar's Avatar Old gods die hard
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Getting rid of the praefects

    Quote Originally Posted by General Brewster View Post
    Can I get three supports so I can get this moving and ponder on why I never do amendments again? I would like to fade back into obscurity again.
    I reverse my position. I will now oppose this amendment.

    I agree with the idea that there are not enough bodies to staff the seats in the Curia. However, we should retain the Preafects and eliminate the Censors. Whatever iteration you propose, we should ratify is some manner the remaining Curial positions.
    Last edited by Gaius Baltar; September 02, 2020 at 10:57 AM. Reason: Add Information - frame the debate

    ​​
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  9. #69
    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Getting rid of the praefects

    Hadn't noticed reaffirmation was necessary, but it is a small thing to do, so: Support!

    Citizenised by Shankbot - Patron of b0Gia - House de Bodemloze

  10. #70
    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Getting rid of the praefects

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitai de Bodemloze View Post
    You'll never be obscure to us
    Amen to that.

    Also, support, if it helps you.
    "Non i titoli illustrano gli uomini, ma gli uomini i titoli." - Niccolo Machiavelli, Discorsi
    "Du musst die Sterne und den Mond enthaupten, und am besten auch den Zar. Die Gestirne werden sich behaupten, aber wahrscheinlich nicht der Zar." - Einstürzende Neubauten, Weil, Weil, Weil

    On an eternal crusade for reason, logics, catholicism and chocolate. Mostly chocolate, though.

    I can heartily recommend the Italian Wars mod by Aneirin.
    In exile, but still under the patronage of the impeccable Aikanár, alongside Aneirin. Humble patron of Cyclops, Frunk and Abdülmecid I.

  11. #71
    General Brewster's Avatar The Flying Dutchman
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Getting rid of the praefects

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    Support re-affirmed
    Merci!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitai de Bodemloze View Post
    You'll never be obscure to us
    Ahw, love

    Quote Originally Posted by Veteraan View Post
    Hadn't noticed reaffirmation was necessary, but it is a small thing to do, so: Support!
    Dank!

    Quote Originally Posted by Iskar View Post
    Amen to that.

    Also, support, if it helps you.


    Danke

    The consul will take this to vote now and we will see where the ship floats to.

  12. #72

    Default Re: [Amendment] Getting rid of the praefects

    Quote Originally Posted by Flinn View Post
    I need no Ostrakons.. I want no mentions to standards or behavior anymore, I don't want to have any opportunity for one citizen to hijack another citizen.. I just want the Curia to comply with the ToS, anyone who breaks the ToS gets an automatic suspension for the same period as the infraction is valid, just this..

    then for the technocrats we can still have the opportunity to expand on "what happens when the suspended citizen also holds a curial position" and "what that could imply for future applications of said citizen to the curial positions".. or even "after how many suspensions is the citizen stripped of their badge?"

    but please, let's get rid of those silly, inapplicable standards and let's stop the crossfire, the vendettas and all the personal references (allowing personal references in a place where people is supposed to "debate" and idea or a proposal is silly and ineffective IMO, wonder why it's not allowed in the D&D?)
    Amen

  13. #73

    Default Re: [Amendment] Getting rid of the praefects

    SUPPORT,.. let's bring this to vote

    (separate post because I want to be clear)
    Last edited by PikeStance; September 03, 2020 at 03:37 AM.

  14. #74
    King Athelstan's Avatar The Wheel Weaves
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Getting rid of the praefects

    Proudly under the patronage of General Brewster of the Imperial House of Hader
    Proud patron of 4zumi, Akar, CommodusIV ,Swaeft
    and Peaman






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