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Thread: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

  1. #121
    webba84's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Well, you were close in the sense that you got the list of remaining factions pretty much bang on, and the Orcs are up for preview soon. But so glad someone has noticed the Thracian vibes - that's very much intentional!

  2. #122

    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    The Avari vibes have been a thing since the initial discussion on the Discord, IIRC.

  3. #123
    Beorn's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Thracians w/o light lancers are not thracians

    nice preview, what about their starting positions? NE of the Sear of Rhun?

  4. #124

    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Pretty much, yep - right along the northern and eastern coastline, in the woods.
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  5. #125
    webba84's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    We imagine (plausibly enough, I think) that the forests there might be a bit larger in the mid Third Age than in the Fourth Age.

  6. #126
    Feanaro Curufinwe's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    I really like the roster - I am very fond of characterful rosters, loved playing the Odrysians in Rome II, so I like characterful, tricky rosters.

    That said, If I may offer some constructive criticism, I feel like the uniformity of color schemes between units hampers the feel of the Avari as this 'barbaric', 'wilder' faction. Obviously, you can only do so much in RTW with its lack of internal unit variety, but I feel like the uniform use of silvers, browns and greens makes them feel too similar to the FATW Elves. Hence why I'd suggest the units having a greater variety of colors, alongside with more ornamentation to make them distinct.
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  7. #127
    webba84's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    It is very useful feedback, thanks Feanaro When I go through all the rosters and do final touch ups before making the unit cards I'll keep it in mind. Giving the more 'irregular' armies and units more variety in colour and appearance is something that we've tried to do a bit more in Wainriders than in DoM, though it is tricky in the case of the elves (Silvan and Avari mostly) in that the clothing still needs to be plausible as forest camouflage in most, if not all cases.

  8. #128
    Feanaro Curufinwe's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by webba84 View Post
    It is very useful feedback, thanks Feanaro When I go through all the rosters and do final touch ups before making the unit cards I'll keep it in mind. Giving the more 'irregular' armies and units more variety in colour and appearance is something that we've tried to do a bit more in Wainriders than in DoM, though it is tricky in the case of the elves (Silvan and Avari mostly) in that the clothing still needs to be plausible as forest camouflage in most, if not all cases.
    Regarding picking colors that could be plausible as camouflage, I'd personally suggest not to stress it too much. Historically, to my knowledge military camouflage only really came to be more commonplace later in the era of gunpowder warfare, when missile exchanges became longer ranged and a lot more accurate. Even for ambushers such as the Avari portrayed here, they have the advantage of superior eyesight and mobility, alongside the fact that counter-fire would be difficult in deep woodlands to say the least, given we're talking about bows, slings and javelins as the primary ranged weapons most of the time. From a Middle-earth perspective, they could very well use some kind of magic if they really want to hide themselves. :V

    So, using greens and browns should probably be viewed as less of a military necessity and more of a fashion statement, opening up justification for them to use all kinds of colors.
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  9. #129
    webba84's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Excellent point, well made!

  10. #130
    demagogos nicator's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Very nice roster, Avari will be interesting faction to play indeed. I especially like their horse archer captains bodyguards. Only issue I see is that playing Avari you will have to wait untill developing top tier military administration to be able to recruit any cavalry. On the other hand it is only tier 3 which is usually not that dificult to obtian (I guess it may be even present from the start at the capital).

    Edit: As it was confirmed above that the Avari are going to live in the forest north and east of the Sea of Rhun I am winderin who will inhabit the lands of Dorwinion? Will these lands be represented as overun by the Western horde in the mod? Unitwise will there be any specific Gondor influenced AoR unit available in the region? I understand that lorewise FATW Kingdom of Dorwinion is concepted as a mannish kingdom established in the fourth age but there is still that infamous reference to Dorwinion in Hobbit which suggest that the region had some distinctive identity separate from rest of Rhovanion already by late third age.
    Last edited by demagogos nicator; November 16, 2020 at 12:12 PM. Reason: Adding additional question.

  11. #131

    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    The Avari are still elves, despite having low armor they're going to be very dangerous. (though I imagine significantly less so than top tier Ñoldor).

    And with higher pop growth it just means you have to be tricky and clever to get to the point where you can throw around more elves.

    As a faction, waiting makes sense too, they have to develop things, reflecting the development of a more sophisticated army. Well, relatively sophisticated.


    Anyway, it's been a week, I know the site's been down for a few days, but as we close in on the last few factions, I find myself getting more and more excited.

  12. #132

    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    Regarding picking colors that could be plausible as camouflage, I'd personally suggest not to stress it too much. Historically, to my knowledge military camouflage only really came to be more commonplace later in the era of gunpowder warfare, when missile exchanges became longer ranged and a lot more accurate. Even for ambushers such as the Avari portrayed here, they have the advantage of superior eyesight and mobility, alongside the fact that counter-fire would be difficult in deep woodlands to say the least, given we're talking about bows, slings and javelins as the primary ranged weapons most of the time. From a Middle-earth perspective, they could very well use some kind of magic if they really want to hide themselves. :V

    So, using greens and browns should probably be viewed as less of a military necessity and more of a fashion statement, opening up justification for them to use all kinds of colors.
    Stealth is also not just about conforming with the primary colours of your environment, it's also about breaking up patterns (e.g. through bold stripes), and movement (or lack thereof). Somtimes, even a brightly coloured bird can be hard to spot in the trees.
    Alternatively, you could argue (when in favour of brighter colours or more original patterns) that the unit skins on the battlemap represent fighting gear rather than travelling or scouting clothes. Although that would raise the question why some units are wearing hoods...

  13. #133

    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Dorwinion is less populated this time around, and in rebel hands at mod start. (I've gotten rid of Rathwin to cut down on settlement density slightly.) With the events of the Hobbit still quite a few centuries in the future, there's theoretically still time for a Mannish presence in Dorwinion to emerge. How much continuity we can imagine between Wainriders' depiction of the region and the DoM depiction is tricky to say. In DoM, we conceived of Dorwinion as echoing Gondorian influence, potentially (but not necessarily!) even tracing lineage all the way back to the earlier Third Age expansions of Gondor prior to the Wainriders. In that mod, Dorwinion might be thought of as a kind of remnant province of Gondor, cut off and isolated for many hundreds of years.

    I'm not sure just what kind of rebel units will inhabit Belegant in Wainriders. If we want to emphasize that continuity with DoM, we might go with some vaguely Gondorian-style units, but I'm not sure if the Avari will have much to do with them.

    The Hobbit reference doesn't indicate what type of people lived in Dorwinion - Men or Elves. But even by including the Avari as a playable faction and not including a playable Mannish Dorwinion we're not necessarily indicating that Dorwinion wasn't ruled by Men. It just could be the case that the Mannish enclave in this period wasn't particularly important.
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  14. #134
    webba84's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    The new arrangement of levy units for Wainriders hasn't been finalized yet, there are quite a lot of changes from DoM that are required to make it lore approriate and of course we are always looking at options that enhance gameplay and worldbuilding and whatnot. It seems highly appropriate to me that Doriwinion become a unique AOR area (much like Parchereb or the Lossoth regions) to reflect it's potentially unique identity.

    There are also some mercs in the region that reflect the idea of trade up and down the Celduin (and further afield), so it will potentially be quite an interesting corner of Middle-earth (until the Wainriders burn everything to the ground of course ).

  15. #135

    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    This is my drug.

    I'm experiencing withdrawal.

    /jk

    Seriously though, great work!

  16. #136
    webba84's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews



    The
    Éothéod


    Led by Marhwini son of Marhari, former prince of Rhovanion, the Eotheod make their homes now in the Vales of Anduin. A remnant of the Northmen who once dwelt in the broad lands east of Mirkwood and served as a bulwark of Gondor, they have been driven from their country by Easterlings they call the Wainriders – a powerful new folk, well-armed and numerous, swarming over the land and slaying or enslaving all who do not flee.


    Those who survived the westward flight have lost none of their valour, or their desire for vengeance. Though distant now from beleaguered Gondor, the Eotheod are still allied to those men of the stony lands and white towers, and will gladly fight at their side once more. But with or without allies, the Northmen plan to strike against the Wainriders as soon as they have the strength to do so.


    Meanwhile, they must settle their herds and families in their new homes. For the most part clinging to the lands about the Great River, they look not to southern Mirkwood, which has grown dark and evil of late, nor to the Elves of nearby Lorien or the Woodland Realm, who have withdrawn into their fastnesses, as have the Dwarves of Khazad-dum.


    Other folk dwell in the mountains: Orcs and wicked Men, some of whom have pushed into the lands about the sources of the Anduin. These rivals will no doubt challenge the Eotheod as they seek to establish themselves. Somewhat straitened in their new homes, the Eotheod will certainly come to blows with these and other peoples. A proud and warlike folk, the Northmen must fight for their very survival before they can fight to reclaim that which was lost.


    Tier 1

    Woodmen Spears
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Armed with simple spears and shields and used to rough lives in the wilderness, these men are among those who have made homes in the eaves of Mirkwood. Some have escaped from the invading Easterlings, while others have long dwelt along the Great River, coming together to protect their farms and small villages from raids. Since the coming of the Eotheod, spear-armed Woodmen have been ready enough to join their hosts, capable defenders against lightly armed foes or cavalry, but without the training or gear to allow them to stand for long against a determined attacker.

    Eotheod Outriders
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    Although not as heavily armoured or as well equipped as many other cavalry, the Eotheod Outriders have honed their skills with the spear and shield. Most effective in the charge, they are deadly and willing soldiers from horseback who rely upon bursts of speed to crash into their foe or keep out of reach of stronger enemies. They are often found on the flanks of battle formations, where they can rush unexpectedly into the rear of an enemy's lines and cut down archers, or strike at infantry who are already engaged.



    Tier 2

    Woodmen Bows
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    These bowmen are lightly armed but hardy folk of the vales of the Anduin and the fringes of Mirkwood. Their numbers of have swelled in the face of the Wainrider assault on Rhovanion, and now bands of these grim men are a common sight among the Eotheod, gladly lending their skill for a chance to fight those who threaten their homes. While they are most feared for their volleys of deadly arrows, they can hold their own in melee against light troops, especially in forested terrain.

    Eotheod Riders
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    Golden-haired, bright-eyed, and strong, the riders of the Eotheod are a formidable foe on the battlefield. These warriors are known from Rhovanion to Gondor as bold and proud men, and are rightly feared by their enemies. They are armed with a pair of throwing spears as well as a long spear and are quite well protected for lighter cavalry. Powerful in the charge and capable in melee, the riders love their land and their lord, and are not shy of combat, so will not be fast to retreat. However, if they come into combat against spearmen or superior infantry, they will not be able to stand for long.



    Tier 3

    Mountain Axemen
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    Dwelling in the vales of the Misty Mountains prior to the coming of the Eotheod, these strong men have since joined with the new-come Northmen, seeing in them a true ally against the wild-folk and Orcs that range on either side of the high peaks. They wield great axes with both hands, trusting to the ferocity of their charge – and their strong mail armour – rather than a shield. Poorly suited to holding a fixed position in a defensive line, Mountain Axemen are the most aggressive infantry available to the Eotheod.

    Eotheod March-wardens
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    The March-wardens are some of the most heavily-armed riders of the Eotheod, clad in mail and armed with long spears for a thunderous charge. They are superb horsemen and warriors, able to sweep the enemy before them or to hew down with swords those who stand and fight. Their cavalry traditions began on the plains of Rhovanion, but since the Wainrider invasions they survive now in the land of their exile along the Anduin, where the March-wardens and their people yearn to strike back against their foes.

    Eotheod Horse-archers
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Hunting is a common and respected pastime for the Northmen. It is also excellent training for war. The hunters shoot from horseback running at great speeds, controlling their mounts impeccably without the use of their hands. The skills used in hunting are easily transferred to warfare, and these horse archers are the finest of their ilk. They use finely crafted shortbows, able to deliver a good deal of damage, and also have swords at their belts and heavy mail armour, so they can fight in melee at need. These skilled men are an example to other soldiers of the Eotheod and will not flee a battle readily.



    Tier 4

    Eotheod Nobles
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Though they suffered the humiliations of defeat and exile by the Wainriders, the Eotheod retain their titles and pride - indeed, the memory of injustices, as well as the sagas of older kings and heroes, spurs them to great deeds. Accordingly, Eotheod Nobles are equipped with the finest weapons and armour – and choicest steeds – to be found in their realm. Clad in mail hauberks and bearing spears either to throw or to thrust in melee, these men are renowned among their people for their skill in war, and able to turn the tide of battle with a well-timed charge.

    Lord's Household (bodyguard unit)
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    The household companions of the chieftains of the Eotheod, these riders command respect from both friend and foe. Even after the defeat of the Northmen of Rhovanion at the hands of the Wainriders, the survivors have retained their reputation as excellent horsemen, passing on the secrets of raising and training their mounts until both horse and man are battle-ready. Now few in number, the Eotheod are nevertheless eager for open war with their hated foe, and these well-armed guardians of their lords stand ready as superior shock cavalry.



    Special Units

    Shields of Rhovanion
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    When the people of Rhovanion were enslaved and subjugated by the Wainriders, their beloved horse-herds were taken by the invaders, leaving most Northmen who remained to resist them bereft of mounts. Those who did not take to the woods and live a live of skulking outlawry would seek the company of any lords who would provide them arms and armour, and take the fight to the enemy directly. Drawing on this recent tradition of stubborn infantry, the Shields of Rhovanion are well-armed spearmen, unwilling to yield a foot of territory to their foes. Serving under the banners of the Eotheod, they form a wall of shields and spearpoints, a strong battle-line from which the riders can range out and strike their foes.

    Framsburg Guard
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    These well-equipped and disciplined warriors guard the northwestern borders of the Eotheod from their fortified settlement at the meeting of the Langwell and the Greylin, near the sources of the Anduin. Heavily armed and armoured in traditional fashion, with sword and round shield, they are hardy and capable men trained since youth for a life of the sword and fine companions to the lords whom they serve. Whether defending the marches of their realm against mountain-Orcs or wicked Men who serve the Witch-king, these redoubtable swordsmen provide a solid core of infantry for the battle-lines of the Eotheod.

    Rhovanion Outlaws
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Though most of the Northmen of Rhovanion were slain or enslaved by the invading Wainriders, some remained to carry on the fight, lurking in the forests and scrubland of their former territories, emerging in small bands to ambush Easterling patrols or raid their camps. These outlaws are woodcrafty, swift and hardy, but their gear is rough and they will not fare well in an open fight against disciplined troops. They will gladly join a commander who will aid them in attacking their sworn foe, and serve well as skirmishers or flankers, where they can cut down the approaching enemy and then retreat behind the safety of a stronger battle-line.




    Disclaimer: This is not an exhaustive list! All rosters are a work in progress and unit list may not be complete or finalized; appearance and description may change in the final release.

  17. #137
    BagaturSasha's Avatar Invictus
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    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Long Live Rohirrim! Impressive models work!


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    also author of the book "Volcanorium" and other works too.

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  18. #138

    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Nice preview !

    If I read it correctly, and according to my memoriesof Tolkien, Angmar will indeed control the north part of the Anduin Vale ? Should be a nice campaign, warring against Arthedin on one side and the Eotheod on the other.

  19. #139
    webba84's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Yes, it's very clear from the writings that Angmar had a presence in the upper Anduin in this period, and the mod will reflect that. You're going to have to put in some work if you want to get those Framsburg Guards

  20. #140
    Beorn's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    TBH, I hoped that I wouldn't see the same old -and mostly below par in comparison the the rest of the mod- Rohirrim models/skins on Eotheod

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