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Thread: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

  1. #81
    webba84's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    They're very easy to change, and everything you see is still WIP, so don't worry about that - we appreciate the feedback!

    Seems like Count's been sharing things he shouldn't - the map colours, like everything else on the campaign map have only just started being worked on and are not really in a state to be previewed yet

    Aesthetics are subjective though - I rather liked the Arthedain grey.
    Last edited by webba84; October 26, 2020 at 11:04 AM.

  2. #82

    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by webba84 View Post
    They're very easy to change, and everything you see is still WIP, so don't worry about that - we appreciate the feedback!

    Seems like Count's been sharing things he shouldn't - the map colours, like everything else on the campaign map have only just started being worked on and are not really in a state to be previewed yet

    Aesthetics are subjective though - I rather liked the Arthedain grey.
    Nah, he was asking for help on map related stuff on the Discord. Mostly in how to fix up the mountain shapes. I just ended up seeing the mini-map.

    It's a lovely color. I just feel that it might fit Angmar better, in terms of color. Given the association with Angmar and the Witch-king with winter, and the dead (sorceries that raised the barrow wights). And as such it doesn't fit Arthedain as much. IMO at least.

    Maybe I'm too invested in color symbolism.

  3. #83
    webba84's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    I'm just teasing

    Rest assured that if our work on faction names is any indication we will likely spend many hours discussing minor changes to these sort of details

  4. #84

    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by webba84 View Post
    I'm just teasing

    Rest assured that if our work on faction names is any indication we will likely spend many hours discussing minor changes to these sort of details
    I was worried I sounded like a complete nerd about irrelevant crap.

  5. #85
    webba84's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Hey, ain't nobody but complete nerds around here

  6. #86

    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by Widowmaker94 View Post
    I was worried I sounded like a complete nerd about irrelevant crap.
    We're happy to hear feedback. And when I made the faction symbol for Arthedain I had to decide "What would look striking, cool and not butcher the lore?". So I dug down into the material (reading) that Tolkien had provided and when it comes to Arthedain, and even Arnor, very little is given to the reader to decide what a heraldry would look like for the North Kingdom or any of its' successor states. We knew that the emblem of Kingship in the North was not the Crown, but the Scepter of Annúminas and the tiara/jewlery referred to the as the Elendilmir (also known as the Star of Elendil). Surely it can't be too different from the South Kingdom? Probably not considering that it was the senior of the two realms, at least nominally this late into the Third Age. So Seven stars about the Scepter and a crown.

    So why white and crimson?

    Why not, I thought. The crimson reminds me of some of the artwork I've seen from both games and the movies where either kings wear a red scarf (Elendil, and in BFME2 some of the kings in the expansion RotWK wear the same). Then I thought it would also be a nice symbolism for the bloodline of Elendil that lived on in the north. As well as the blood sacrifice the Dúnedain of Arnor had paid to protect the northern peoples from the "Sorcerer" of Angmar (as none knew at this point that it was the leader of the Nazgűl).

    Again. It's art, and we do what we can to keep it in line with the lore from the books. At one point I remade the Gondorian faction symbol three times because we argued back and forth what the sign for the Kingship of Gondor would actually look like and how JRR Tolkien actually described it.

    So no, don't feel like you're being a nerd about irrelevant crap. We're doing this because we're all nerdy about irrelevant crap


  7. #87
    Beorn's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    TBH, I find the Wainriders too DaC-ish for my taste. I love the down-to-earth and realistic ones in DoM, they greatly add to the UI experience

  8. #88

    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    TBH, I find the Wainriders too DaC-ish for my taste. I love the down-to-earth and realistic ones in DoM, they greatly add to the UI experience
    You mean the symbols or the faction(s)?

  9. #89
    Beorn's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Symbols

  10. #90

    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    As if FATW wasn't awesome enough, this mod also looks fantastic as it develops! One question, born of simple curiosity: This mod begins around TA 1864, and around TA 1981, the Balrog forces the Dwarves to flee Khazad-Dum. Does that date fall out of the scope of this mod? If not, is this going to be some sort of event?

  11. #91

    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by Vhaelor View Post
    We're happy to hear feedback. And when I made the faction symbol for Arthedain I had to decide "What would look striking, cool and not butcher the lore?". So I dug down into the material (reading) that Tolkien had provided and when it comes to Arthedain, and even Arnor, very little is given to the reader to decide what a heraldry would look like for the North Kingdom or any of its' successor states. We knew that the emblem of Kingship in the North was not the Crown, but the Scepter of Annúminas and the tiara/jewlery referred to the as the Elendilmir (also known as the Star of Elendil). Surely it can't be too different from the South Kingdom? Probably not considering that it was the senior of the two realms, at least nominally this late into the Third Age. So Seven stars about the Scepter and a crown.

    So why white and crimson?

    Why not, I thought. The crimson reminds me of some of the artwork I've seen from both games and the movies where either kings wear a red scarf (Elendil, and in BFME2 some of the kings in the expansion RotWK wear the same). Then I thought it would also be a nice symbolism for the bloodline of Elendil that lived on in the north. As well as the blood sacrifice the Dúnedain of Arnor had paid to protect the northern peoples from the "Sorcerer" of Angmar (as none knew at this point that it was the leader of the Nazgűl).

    Again. It's art, and we do what we can to keep it in line with the lore from the books. At one point I remade the Gondorian faction symbol three times because we argued back and forth what the sign for the Kingship of Gondor would actually look like and how JRR Tolkien actually described it.

    So no, don't feel like you're being a nerd about irrelevant crap. We're doing this because we're all nerdy about irrelevant crap
    Oh, I think I might not have been clear enough. I was talking about map color in specific here.

  12. #92

    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Hey guys, will you give us a map with starting positions? Also the mod looks great!

  13. #93
    webba84's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    We certainly will preview the campaign map once it's been whipped into shape a bit more - CountMRVHS is currently working on that right now

    edit - sorry, I missed the question about the Balrog. It does fall within the timeframe of the mod but we can't talk about it yet, nothing is decided.
    Last edited by webba84; November 03, 2020 at 05:09 AM.

  14. #94
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    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews



    League of the North


    Long have the Dwarves mined these northern lands, coaxing iron from the hills and wresting rarer prizes from the earth. In ages past, Dwarves hewed a road through the forbidding forest, to ease traffic between the great city of Khazad-dum and these frontier colonies. But as with all things, the traffic began to fail; evil things crept into the woods; and now Men of ill sort have burst in from the East, disrupting trade and threatening travel. Few messages come from Khazad-dum these days.


    The villages of Northmen that cluster about the lakes and rivers are filled with refugees from the south, bringing tales of wild men slaying, burning, and enslaving. At the feet of the Lonely Mountain, the men of the dale gather and begin to arm, asking the Dwarves for aid. So once again, as in days of old, there is an alliance between Dwarves and Men. No Dwarf-king leads them, but a Dwarf-lord of proud colonists, stubborn folk who have carved their mansions in this land and will not yield it to Easterlings who have only lately mastered iron. Joined to their cause are the Northmen, rough but hardy people, skilled with beasts and bows and strong of arm, unwilling to shoulder a foreign yoke.


    And, should this League prove strong, perhaps other lands can fall under its banner. There are untapped riches in the mountains north and west, and room for many herds and farms to the south. If not snuffed out too soon, perhaps this alliance can grow – a lordship to command respect among the Houses of the Dwarves, and to shield the people of the North from the menace of the East.


    Dwarves

    Tier 1

    Dwarven Axes
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Stone-hard both in battle and on the march, the Dwarven Axes are the mainstay of a Dwarven army. Like the axes they carry, these warriors are tough, warlike, and strong - reliable to the last on a battlefield. With a shield in the off hand and a hauberk of strong mail, these are excellent soldiers of the line for both attack and defence. The cry of 'Khazâd ai-męnu!' - 'the Dwarves are upon you!' – is feared across Middle-earth thanks to the devastation caused by these warriors. Raised underground like all Dwarves, they learnt the skill of mining early, making them of excellent use in siege warfare where they can undermine an enemy's walls.



    Tier 2

    Dwarven Spears
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Staunch and strong-armed, these Dwarves are equipped with shield and spear and trained to hold a line. Wielding a spear may earn a Dwarf-warrior less renown than cleaving enemy ranks with an axe, but a wall of spears and shields can stop an enemy charge and allow other troops to crash into the foe’s flanks. Dwarven Spears provide an anchor to the already solid Dwarven line, and are especially effective when defending against cavalry.

    Dwarven Bows
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Dwarves, though skilled in weapon-making, care little for bows when compared to their melee and siege weapons. But they do grasp the value of a bow's superior range. Training for the bow is often neglected by the Dwarves and only a few can claim to genuinely love the weapon as many love their axes, but strength and training can have their benefits, and these archers will stand up to many lower classes of bowmen. In melee, these Dwarves will overpower other archers and, thanks to their toughness, may even hold their own against some dedicated infantry, despite their lack of heavy armour.



    Tier 3

    Dwarven Axethrowers
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Throwing an axe is not easy to learn, but these Dwarves are both skilled and experienced in the art of war. Carrying two (comparatively) light axes, they can disrupt an enemy's rank before charging. Indeed, belying their stature, a Dwarf can roll along at quite a pace and deliver a powerful charge. In Dwarven lands east of the Ered Luin, the throwing axe has proven a most useful weapon in wars waged within the confines of tunnels and caves. Over long years of combat against the hated Orcs, the Axethrowers have become somewhat specialist Troll-hunters: the flurry of axes followed by a sudden charge confounds the beasts.

    Dwarven Ballista
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Smaller in scale but no less mighty than the ballistas built by engineers of the Dúnedanic realms, the Dwarven Ballistas can deliver great destruction at impressive range. They are most effective when deployed against masses of slow-moving enemy infantry, as their missiles are flung with enough force to tear through many ranks of soldiers. These engines are pushed and worked by stout Dwarves who will fight determinedly in their defense, but a wise commander will take care that the crew and machines are well protected against a sudden attack.



    Tier 4

    Dwarven Warhammers
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Few weapons can displace the special affection of the Dwarves for the powerful axe, but many commanders have begun to recognise the value of the long-hafted warhammer. These fearsome weapons consist of a heavy hammer crowned by points of Dwarven steel on the top and back, producing a tool equally capable of battering and piercing. Despite their ungainly appearance, these thrice-forged weapons have broken many soldiers and won many battles for the Dwarves. Lacking a shield but clad head to toe in strong mail, the versatility of the hammer leaves this unit equally capable of defence and attack. They are warriors to be admired – preferably from a distance.

    Dwarven Siege Ballista
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    The Dwarven Siege Ballistas are a terrible force on the battlefield. By far the largest siege engines constructed by the Dwarves, these tools of wood, metal, and sinew hurl stones or fiery missiles over great distances and with devastating force. Against walls or gates, the stone missiles are more effective - and the crew are equipped with enough stones to reduce several sections of even the highest walls to rubble. Against troops, the fire-filled clay pots can wreak fearful destruction, engulfing dozens of enemy warriors with only a few volleys. On attack or defense, the siege ballistas are one of the most terrifying and effective weapons available to a Dwarven captain.

    Dragon Slayers (bodyguard unit)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    In the wilderness of northern Rhovanion, a Dwarf-lord must go well-armed, and in a company of trusted fellows. The Dwarves know that dragons lair in the Grey Mountains, and have had dealings with them in the past - but whether they face worms or more mundane threats, the bodyguard of the lords of the League boast superb armour, crafted from metal won from the rich veins of the Iron Hills, and they are renowned fighters with the heavy mattocks they bear. Working an area of Middle-earth that has long been mined but still faces threats from many foes, these Dwarves take pride in their independence and are eager to come to grips with those who would threaten their lands and mansions.



    Northmen

    Tier 1

    Woodmen Axes
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    These axemen are not professional soldiers but are hardy and strong. Fighting with axe and shield, they are capable offensive warriors, especially in the woodland they call home, and are for some Northmen settlements the only defenders of their peoples' homes. Still, their lack of armour means that in battle they are more useful as a reserve or flanking force than as soldiers of the line.

    Border Foresters
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Clad only in light hunting leathers to facilitate swift passage through the wood and scrubland, Border Foresters are hardy but undisciplined men, more accustomed to the rugged ways of a hunting camp than the regimented life of a soldier on the march. Still, a wise commander will always find a use for men with an intimate knowledge of the land - and the fortitude to undertake punishing journeys on short notice. Preferring the tactics of skirmish and ambush to bold strokes in open battle, these foresters are most effective when their javelins can be a deadly surprise for the horsemen and wains of the Easterlings.



    Tier 2

    Northmen Militia
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Drawn from the communities of the Northmen, these spear-warriors are hardy and swift, and when fighting in good order can repulse cavalry charges and hold the line against light infantry. Their helms and shields offer good protection, but they should be guarded on the flanks, as they may be unable to weather an unexpected attack. When supported by other troops, they will prove to be capable defensive soldiers.

    Woodmen Bows
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Armed with axe and bow, companies of these rugged men are a great boon to their villages, and can offer good service to a captain in battle. Their woodcraft allows them to ambush approaching foes and retreat from danger, and while they do not have the range of longbows they can do great damage to a lightly armed enemy. Though they are not armed for melee, at need they are enthusiastic flankers, and can hold their own against other light troops.



    Tier 3

    Northmen Swords
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    More well-armed than many who have gathered in Dale and northern Rhovanion to seek refuge from the eastern invaders, these Northmen wear mail armour and bear their swords proudly. They are some of the staunchest defenders of their settlements, able to ward off enemy blows and inflict great loss on spearmen or lightly-armed foes. They are less effective when fighting riders, and a charge of cavalry may scatter them – but when protected against those threats, Northmen Swords prove strong and versatile warriors.

    Border Riders
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Used to the rough conditions of the frontier, where the territory of the League ends and the uncertain lands of Easterlings, Elves, or others begin, Border Riders are scouts and skirmishers, often used to harass slower enemies and retreat before coming into melee. Their hardy mounts are tough and swift, allowing the riders to get into range to cast their javelins and keep out of reach of infantry or other riders. Although equipped more for trekking through unsettled country than for open battle, the Border Riders may surprise a foe with a sudden charge, especially into the flank or rear.



    Tier 4

    Northmen Longbowmen
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Bearing great bows and protected by mail armour, these Northmen command great respect among their companions and the Dwarf-lords of the League, who recognize the value of fielding companies of strong bowmen. Whether defending the walls of a settlement or deployed in ranks on the battlefield, longbowmen can shatter the morale of an enemy force and devastate lightly armed troops. Care should be taken to protect these archers against cavalry, but when entrenched in a solid defensive position they are a stubborn threat to any foe.

    Chief's Hearth-troops
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    The companions of local leaders among the Northmen, the Chief’s Hearth-troops are clad in the finest armour available to the men of the League – forged with techniques learned by the Dwarves themselves. Protected by a large round shield, each warrior bears a pair of throwing axes and a well-balanced sword. Their gear is a mighty prize, and the skill of these men is proof that it is well bestowed. They are among the strongest men of the League of the North, suited either to holding a position against an enemy host or leading a charge of foot.



    Special Units

    Riders of Rhovanion
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    After the fall of Rhovanion’s once-great princes, broad lands, and proud herds, those who were not killed or enslaved by the Wainriders were compelled to flee. Many struck out west, finding new homes along the Great River; some gathered under Erebor with their kinfolk in Dale; others entered the service of Gondor. But some remained in the lands of plain and copse, exiles in their own land, taking the fight to their sworn foe and joining with capable lords who would see the Easterlings driven back. Riders of Rhovanion are superior cavalrymen, mounted on hardy and intelligent beasts who are as loyal to their rider as the riders are to each other. Armed in mail and driving foes before their spear-points, these men are a terror to the enemies of the North.

    Horse-archers of Rhovanion
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Companies of light riders banding together on the fringes of Mirkwood or on the plains of Rhovanion, these horsed archers range the wilderness, striking enemy camps and fleeing back into the shelter of the trees. They are eager to join with foes of the Wainriders, the Easterlings who stole their lands and enslaved their people. In open battle, they are adept at circling enemy formations and shooting into the flanks and rear, where their arrows can strike under shields and find the weak points in armour. While they wear a helm and some light armour they are not equipped for melee, and are more useful at running down routers.

    River Traders
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    The River Running may now be a border between foes, but it is still the quickest path for trade, from nigh the eaves of the Woodland Realm to the Sea of Rhun. It passes through many lands, inhabited by Northmen, new-come Easterlings, and other peoples, and of late merchants who travel this route do well to go armed. These men are clad more for boat-work than for battle, but they bear strong axes and bows in case they should be attacked by bandits. A lord may convince them to join his host, provided he can pay well, and their versatility and hardiness will serve them well in combat, where they may shoot down approaching foes or charge into the enemy flank.



    Disclaimer: This is not an exhaustive list! All rosters are a work in progress and unit list may not be complete or finalized; appearance and description may change in the final release.

    Phew, that was a big one!

  15. #95

    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Will they be able to properly colonize Erebor?

  16. #96

    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Looks like a fun roster. Are the Chief's Hearth Troops proper FM or recruitable general bodyguards?

  17. #97
    webba84's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Neither - RTW can't handle multi-race family trees.

    @Widowmaker - we haven't decided yet. The campaign is very WIP.

  18. #98

    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    I thought maybe they could be custom BGs for Dwarven FMs.
    From a game design PoV, IMO it seems a bit redundant to have two units of heavy swordsmen for the same faction, unless they have significantly different AoR or recruitment pools (the latter not being relevant in RTW).

  19. #99
    webba84's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Custom BG for Dwarven characters doesn't exactly fit with them being representative (as best we can manage) of Northman Chieftains, which is why we didn't go that way.

    I think you'll find there's not much redundancy there either, quite a different unit to the Northman Swords in many ways (though I grant the preview doesn't really illustrate that).
    Last edited by webba84; November 04, 2020 at 02:24 PM.

  20. #100
    demagogos nicator's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Wainriders Official Announcement and Faction Previews

    Great preview and very nice roster. As staunch Dale fan I suppose League of the North will be one of my favourite factions in the mod. I really like this kind of rather small but cosmopolitan factions, many of which seems to be present in the Wainriders (LoN, Angern, Umbar,...). Pity that engine does not support multi-race familly trees, it would be even more interesting if mannish popuation could have their own mannish lords.

    I have couple of questions if you would not mind to satisfy my curiousity and reveal some not yet reavelaed details about the mod.

    1. It seems my favourite caridge ballistas are missing in the rosters of both yet revealed dvarwen factions. Does it mean we can expect it in the roster of the last one which has not been revealed yet? Or has the unit been removed from the mod completely.

    2. How the Ered Luin will be represented on the campaing map, will it be settled by independent (rebel) dwarf faction, part of the other existing faction or will it be just an inaccessible region?

    3. Where will the Rhovanion refugees faction be located on the campaing map? Still somewhere on the edges of Rhovanion or already closing to their new homeland in Anduin Vales? I presume using horde mechanism from BI would be most appropriate for this faction but if I have the correct informaton this mechanism is unavalable in Alexander engine.

    4. Will hobbits be present in the mod in any form (faction, independent region, AoR unit for Arthedain)?

    5. Will you use the posibility to use custom battle map generals models which Alexander engine allows?

    6. Do you plan to include custom battle map settlements (either those already present in DoM or even some new?).

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