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Thread: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

  1. #41

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    May 2020 - Turkish fighter jets fly over Greek islets
    March 2020 - Unauthorized Turkish overflights continue in eastern Aegean

    Those are from recent months and from your source alone. Clearly, the Greek claims of airspace violations are not tied to any kind of recent developments. Greeks have always made these claims that are often based on the 10 nm airspace claim they have that Turkey only recognizes 6 nm or the bunch of islands and islets that Greece falsely claims ownership over. I won't go into details of it. The reason you're actually trying to shift focus to Aegean is due to your failure to explain how Greece somehow able to make claims in the area Oruç Reis is conducting research in.
    Last edited by PointOfViewGun; August 23, 2020 at 03:42 AM.
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  2. #42
    goro's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Violations happen from time time. When Oruc Reis was at sea they intensified immensely. The airplanes mentioned passed right above my house. That day there were reports over the island that windows and glasses almost broke because of very low flights of turkish airplanes. Has nothing to do with the airspace you mentioned. They passed way beyond that. As per usual greek airplanes went and drove them away. This happens every month anyways and even when i was in the army and was stationed at Halki for few weeks there were naval violations as well. Stuff like that happen always. I highly doubt Turkish people ever learn of them or probably ignore them as Greek propaganda.

  3. #43

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Quote Originally Posted by goro View Post
    Violations happen from time time. When Oruc Reis was at sea they intensified immensely. The airplanes mentioned passed right above my house. That day there were reports over the island that windows and glasses almost broke because of very low flights of turkish airplanes. Has nothing to do with the airspace you mentioned. They passed way beyond that. As per usual greek airplanes went and drove them away. This happens every month anyways and even when i was in the army and was stationed at Halki for few weeks there were naval violations as well. Stuff like that happen always. I highly doubt Turkish people ever learn of them or probably ignore them as Greek propaganda.
    July 2020 - Turkish jets embark on barrage of violations
    April 2020 - Turkey violates Greek airspace 48 times on Good Friday

    Clearly, there wasn't any immense intensifying. Greeks claim such violations all the time. If Turkish jets really flew over Rhodes Greece would want to start World War III, or it was just an other case of Turkish jets flying inside the 10 nm airspace claim while staying outside of 6 nm airspace of Greece. As I said, this is all a deflection.
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  4. #44
    goro's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Rhodes is in your airspace? Maybe Athens as well.

  5. #45

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Quote Originally Posted by goro View Post
    Rhodes is in your airspace? Maybe Athens as well.
    I didn't say that. By resorting to such plain and simple distortions of what I'm saying you're basically giving the implication that you too know that the case in Mediterranean has no merits in favor of Greece. Hence, instead of trying to explain to us how Greece is able to make a claim in that particular area you resort to making stuff up about what people argue to muddy the waters.
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  6. #46
    goro's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    What did i make up exactly? And you are no mind reader so stop this implication stuff. You don't know what i know.
    Last edited by goro; August 23, 2020 at 04:22 AM.

  7. #47

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Quote Originally Posted by goro View Post
    What did i make up exactly?
    Sigh... That I somehow implied Rhodes was in Turkish airspace.
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  8. #48
    goro's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    double post

  9. #49
    goro's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    I was clearly speaking about airspace violations above rhodes which is not in turkish airspace and i myself have witnessed, I'm not deflecting anything. Ehodes is the first big greek island closer to the place of the incident. Any increase in military activity here is connected.

  10. #50

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Quote Originally Posted by goro View Post
    I was clearly speaking about airspace violations above rhodes which is not in turkish airspace and i myself have witnessed, I'm not deflecting anything. Ehodes is the first big greek island closer to the place of the incident. Any increase in military activity here is connected.
    So your response is that you were just talking randomly with disregard for what you're seemingly responding to. OK. That is an interesting way to argue... The fact of the matter is that Greece claims airspace violations all over Aegean, including Rhodes, all the time. You're merely selectively applying such claims to make them appear more connected to the matter at hand.
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  11. #51
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    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    From a distance it looks like Erdogan is continuing the East Mediterranean tradition of a bit of ship-waving and Hellas has risen to the bait. Pretty sure vessels are allowed through foreign waters, especially given Turkiye is practically surrounded, so talk of torpedos and "any force necessary" is nonsense.

    For whatever reason most of the rest of the world supports the way Turkiye has been hemmed in by the Hellenic EEZs. Maybe a reward for Hellas over Turkiye because the joined the winning side in WWII? Not sure, and I don't know enough about that to say who if anyone has been treated unjustly. To my untrained eye it looks bloody awful, like seriously did the

    Sending a handful of ships is nothing like the Turkish invasion of Cyprus. Outside Turkiye that is seen as an illegal and deplorable act and has not made Cyprus better in any way.

    I hope none of the players decide to up the ante with violent action. You can't rely on the US to smooth things over, the last President made the Arab Spring even worse by sending Hilary (thanks Obama) and the current bloke thinks Qatar is the epicentere of Islamic terror in the region (Orange Man heard that while he was fondling King Salman's ball apparently). You have to look elsewhere for a guardian Angela.

    edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    ...
    Ι also will take this rare opportunity to thank PoVG for the OP because even though I disagree with Turkish aggression and I think the OP leaves a few things out... it is a balanced, neutral post. Far more neutral than I would make it.
    Seconded, "I must spread some rep around" before I give more to POVG.
    Last edited by Cyclops; August 23, 2020 at 06:55 PM.
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  12. #52

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Wow an Post which is nothing else then just copy & paste and besides that lacks any content or continuity - this is nothing else then spam and just a like usual twitter Sh4tposting:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Besides that it´s an Greek Source...skipping further replies and questions from other Users and while just posting one-sided Greek propaganda aren´t solving Issues..but of course Greece stronkh!

  13. #53

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Two more maps will show why Greece is pushing a senseless claim in the region. This is the proposed East Med pipeline project:



    Initially, Israel wanted this pipeline to pass through Turkey. However, Greek opposition made that impossible and they had to go for a much more expensive route.

    In light of that, Greece needed a path to cross the eastern Mediterranean. That path lies in the maximalist claim of Greece and Southern Cyprus:



    The proposed pipeline is to pass through that small connection between the Greek and Southern Cypriot EEZ claims.
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  14. #54
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    https://time.com/5884397/turkey-greece-tensions/

    This is a neutral article that is well written. It could help foreigners understand what is going on.

    Keep in mind I said "neutral article" not "good article."
    I don't call it a good article, because when Greece is right and Turkey is warmongering, a neutral article is not a good article.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  15. #55

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Keep in mind I said "neutral article" not "good article."
    I don't call it a good article, because when Greece is right and Turkey is warmongering, a neutral article is not a good article.
    In your Opinion Greece is right by griping around the World and begging USA or Europe to enforce a Agreement which Turkey have not signed or would not agree. Besides that Greece is always referring to UNCLOS or whatever they are seeing in that Convention/Treaty and on the Definition of it.

    Did you even read that Treaty/Convention? It´s not even possible that something like that can came to effect without even involving the other parties which is Turkey here obviously. One sided pro-claims helping not solve the Problem which is Greece doing since?

  16. #56

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    https://time.com/5884397/turkey-greece-tensions/

    This is a neutral article that is well written. It could help foreigners understand what is going on.

    Keep in mind I said "neutral article" not "good article."
    I don't call it a good article, because when Greece is right and Turkey is warmongering, a neutral article is not a good article.
    Within the context of this specific conflict its really not Turkey that is warmongering. It's Greece.

    There are few misrepresentations in the article.

    1) It portrays Greek live fire exercise as a response to Turkish live fire exercises. This is not true. It was Greece that declared theirs in response to Turkish research mission. Turkey declared its own exercises in response to Greek exercises. Greece, along with France, chose to escalate it into that level.

    2) The article mentions Greek exodus from the Turkish occupied area but doesn't refer to Turkish exodus from the Greek occupied area.

    3) The article forgets to mention Greece for backing Haftar.

    4) The article fails to mention the deal between Egypt and Greece only covering half the maritime border Greece normally claims in the area with Egypt.

    Overall, its not exactly a neutral article either. Out of all the conflicts between Turkey and Greece this is one of those that Greece is least right about.
    The Armenian Issue
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  17. #57

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Who can Turkey rely on as an ally to back their claims here outside of Libya? I imagine Turkish/Iranian relations aren't great after the Turkish invasion of Syria/and Iran supporting proxys that are enemies of Turkish proxys. Russia will back Greece because of Orthodox unity. Saudis/Egypt are busy in Yemen and would only pay lip service if they did, but would probably move in whatever manner US moves. Trump certainly doesn't like Erdogan after the priest situation a couple years ago..

    China?

  18. #58

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Finally, Turkey is being honest of what she wants. "But, but, my neighbor's islands are too close to my shore. Why should I not take it, if I can see it?"
    https://twitter.com/abdbozkurt/statu...55978938888192

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  19. #59
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Quote Originally Posted by tgoodenow View Post
    Russia will back Greece because of Orthodox unity. Saudis/Egypt are busy in Yemen and would only pay lip service if they did
    China?
    Egypt is on Greece's side and Saudi Arabia is no friend of Turkey's.
    Russia might actually somewhat back Turkey to further drive a wedge between them and the rest of NATO.

    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; August 30, 2020 at 03:36 AM. Reason: Continuity.

  20. #60

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Egypt is on Greece's side and Saudi Arabia is no friend of Turkey's.
    Russia might actually somewhat back Turkey to further drive a wedge between them and the rest of NATO.
    The NATO members that matter are going to back Greece. Turkey will probably leave NATO. Hell, if Turkey try’s to act as balsy as they did in the Syrian invasion, I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a full scale war and Erdogan is toppled.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; August 30, 2020 at 03:35 AM. Reason: Continuity.

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