The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Remember Guys this Thread is ones again getting rising from the dead because some "Greek Members" with their "Greek Sources" want it. What makes this all ones again more ridiculous is the simple Fact that this Topic already contains over 24 Pages with Posts which already had been posted and discussed.

But someone is truly ignoring that and spamming the same Hoax over and over again.

He brought up something completely new though?

[Nebaki]

He brought up something completely new though?

That was what exactly? Some random Trollposts on twitter that neither the audience in Turkey or even Arab World is taking serious except some certain "Greek Members" on this Board?

[PointOfViewGun]

The real problem here is that the Greek media is obsessed with Turkey. The wind blows the Turkish flag in Istanbul the wrong way and they make an article on it without the proper context. ioannis76 is merely parroting their hysteria here.

[Nebaki]

The wind blows the Turkish flag in Istanbul the wrong way and they make an article on it without the proper context.

For example former Lieutenant of Hellenic Navy (Submarine) Ioannis Theodoratos [Ιωάννης Θεοδωράτος] is a really Gem in that case - Wonder if someone is related with him here.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[AnthoniusII]

Countries usually don't go to war against other countries that propose them more land...

Turkey does not offer land but water. Water that dies not belong to it. Israel's announcement was clear. The maritime borders with Cyprus have been signed and they are finall no matter what Turkey wants. On the other hand though Israel wont wait to see an western "IRAN" with nuclear power that someday would posess nuclear weapons. So far atleast 3 nuclear facilities in Syria, Iraq and Iran became dust from Israel air attacks. Do you think that Turkey has the balls to start a war against Israel if Israel will turn to dust the nuclear plant in Attaleia?

[PointOfViewGun]

Turkey does not offer land but water. Water that dies not belong to it. Israel's announcement was clear. The maritime borders with Cyprus have been signed and they are finall no matter what Turkey wants. On the other hand though Israel wont wait to see an western "IRAN" with nuclear power that someday would posess nuclear weapons. So far atleast 3 nuclear facilities in Syria, Iraq and Iran became dust from Israel air attacks. Do you think that Turkey has the balls to start a war against Israel if Israel will turn to dust the nuclear plant in Attaleia?

Thanks for fixing that typo of mine. So, yes, countries don't go to war against other countries that propose them more sea territory. I understand that you realize that too since you're moving away from your initial point due to its idiocy and try to talk about unrelated and unsubstantiated topics.

[AnthoniusII]

Thanks for fixing that typo of mine. So, yes, countries don't go to war against other countries that propose them more sea territory. I understand that you realize that too since you're moving away from your initial point due to its idiocy and try to talk about unrelated and unsubstantiated topics.

Why unreleated? Because you say so? The Fight for Mediterranean includes actions and re-actions and bombing a nyclear facillity that Israel believes threatens its existance is a part of those actions.
From one point your country offers something that does not belong to it -according to Israely Goverment- because they already signed the mirime borders WITH THE DEMOCRACY OF CYPRUS a UN , EU member state. Your goverment offers miaritime borders to an authority with no legitimacy world wide. How that is not related for the domination over Mediterranean ? I ask you again. DO YOU REALY believe that if Turkey continues that anti Israel policy that nuclear plant in Attalea will become factional? In waht basis? The might of the Turkish forces and navy? If that is so why Erdogan asked Putin to involve Russian troops in Gaza to protect it and simply did not sent his armada to land thousands of his troops and save Gaza from Israel once and for all?

[PointOfViewGun]

Why unreleated? Because you say so? The Fight for Mediterranean includes actions and re-actions and bombing a nyclear facillity that Israel believes threatens its existance is a part of those actions.
From one point your country offers something that does not belong to it -according to Israely Goverment- because they already signed the mirime borders WITH THE DEMOCRACY OF CYPRUS a UN , EU member state. Your goverment offers miaritime borders to an authority with no legitimacy world wide. How that is not related for the domination over Mediterranean ? I ask you again. DO YOU REALY believe that if Turkey continues that anti Israel policy that nuclear plant in Attalea will become factional? In waht basis? The might of the Turkish forces and navy? If that is so why Erdogan asked Putin to involve Russian troops in Gaza to protect it and simply did not sent his armada to land thousands of his troops and save Gaza from Israel once and for all?

Israel bombing non-existent nuclear power plants in Turkey is not related to maritime issues in Mediterranean. The level of how ignorant your argument is evident from the fact there isn't even a planned nuclear power plant in Antalya, which you insistently call Attalea. It's enjoyable to see how you jump from point to point with absolutely no level of coherence.

[ioannis76]

Well, it adds more than Israel claims or wants. The Israeli EEZ ends at the red boxes marked on the map, but because Turkey thinks Islands shouldn't have an EEZ they think that Israel's EEZ should extend to the yellow line. Of course Israel already signed an EEZ deal with Cyprus so it said no.

It seems to do so, but at the same time it recognizes the "Palestinian" EEZ, which does not exist. From the map here:
https://www.marineregions.org/gazett...etails&id=8375
which, to my knowledge is the actual EEZ, there is an empty "square" surrounded by Israeli EEZ (if I am reading this correctly the "square" corresponds to sea right in front of the Ghaza strip). With the turkish map, this square seems to be projected all the way to "turkish EEZ". I am not sure how much it encroaches upon actual Israeli EEZ.

[ioannis76]

Thanks for fixing that typo of mine. So, yes, countries don't go to war against other countries that propose them more sea territory. I understand that you realize that too since you're moving away from your initial point due to its idiocy and try to talk about unrelated and unsubstantiated topics.

Turkey is offering things that do not belong to it. The division of the EEZ disregarding the rights of islands, when the UNCLOS states otherwise is ridiculous, and would cause all sorts of havoc (there are island countries other than Cyprus, you know, and disregarding their EEZ would not bode well with them).
Furthermore, Israel has suffered no few insults by Turkey or its lackeys. In fact, it's difficult to think of countries that Turkey neighbors with that have not.

That was what exactly? Some random Trollposts on twitter that neither the audience in Turkey or even Arab World is taking serious except some certain "Greek Members" on this Board?

Random trollposts? Yeni Safak, Erdogan's own mouthpiece is a random trollpost?
But yes, I believe that the audience in Turkey has much more pressing issues right now, such as the price of bread.

[AnthoniusII]

Israel bombing non-existent nuclear power plants in Turkey is not related to maritime issues in Mediterranean. The level of how ignorant your argument is evident from the fact there isn't even a planned nuclear power plant in Antalya, which you insistently call Attalea. It's enjoyable to see how you jump from point to point with absolutely no level of coherence.

You are right I still call the city with the name it had for 2500 years! Also you are right Akkuyu Nuclear plant is closest to Israel aka more eay target for such operation than Attaleia (or Antalya if you prefer).Forgive me about that but since you still call Agia Saphia as such I thought that you can never forget your greek blood line despite being Muslims.

Let me remind you as military historian. Israel air strikes against Nuclear facilities (3) were made in distances twice or three times bigest than the disstance Israel Akkuyu!
Also let me remind you that they have done air strikes deep in IRAN AND Lybia in the past.
Finally let me remind you that in the last exersice between Israel Air Force and Hellenic Air Force one of the scenarios was a long deep in hostile airspace airstrike!
The fight for Meditaranean will become a hell if your president make a slightly bad step....

[PointOfViewGun]

Turkey is offering things that do not belong to it. The division of the EEZ disregarding the rights of islands, when the UNCLOS states otherwise is ridiculous, and would cause all sorts of havoc (there are island countries other than Cyprus, you know, and disregarding their EEZ would not bode well with them).
Furthermore, Israel has suffered no few insults by Turkey or its lackeys. In fact, it's difficult to think of countries that Turkey neighbors with that have not.

Equating a former admiral's view of EEZ is not Turkey offering EEZ like Oprah. Turkey's position, however, is not completely not giving any EEZ to islands. It's position is based on giving EEZ to islands based on principle of equity. Greece wants to ignore that while ICJ, along with other international bodies, time and time after again acknowledged that simple principle.

You are right I still call the city with the name it had for 2500 years! Also you are right Akkuyu Nuclear plant is closest to Israel aka more eay target for such operation than Attaleia (or Antalya if you prefer).Forgive me about that but since you still call Agia Saphia as such I thought that you can never forget your greek blood line despite being Muslims.

Let me remind you as military historian. Israel air strikes against Nuclear facilities (3) were made in distances twice or three times bigest than the disstance Israel Akkuyu!
Also let me remind you that they have done air strikes deep in IRAN AND Lybia in the past.
Finally let me remind you that in the last exersice between Israel Air Force and Hellenic Air Force one of the scenarios was a long deep in hostile airspace airstrike!
The fight for Meditaranean will become a hell if your president make a slightly bad step....

What a pitiful post. I really pity such a mentality.

[AnthoniusII]

Equating a former admiral's view of EEZ is not Turkey offering EEZ like Oprah. Turkey's position, however, is not completely not giving any EEZ to islands. It's position is based on giving EEZ to islands based on principle of equity. Greece wants to ignore that while ICJ, along with other international bodies, time and time after again acknowledged that simple principle.

We wrote the smae time so please read my previus post. Also If Turkey thinks that International Law about miritime borders is in her favor WHY DOES NOT SIGN the treaty?
Islands do not have only 12 miles EEZ but that can be reach -according to each case up to 200 miles. That is the main dispute in the Chinese Sea you know ! The equality you mention is only about borders in watre and air (middle line distance) not EEZ in open seas! So here is the chalenge. Convibce your Presiident to sign the MONDEGO BAY (am i right about the treaty's name) treaty and solve the matimime issues with Greece and Cyprus via its laws. Does he dares to do what his previus Turkey goverments refused to do in the past?

[ioannis76]

Equating a former admiral's view of EEZ is not Turkey offering EEZ like Oprah. Turkey's position, however, is not completely not giving any EEZ to islands. It's position is based on giving EEZ to islands based on principle of equity. Greece wants to ignore that while ICJ, along with other international bodies, time and time after again acknowledged that simple principle.

Actually, Greece went to the ICJ on the issue of Continental Shelf back in 1976:

In 1976, Greece brought this very serious issue before the UN Security Council and unilaterally resorted to the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in The Hague. Turkey refused to come before the Court, invoking its non-recognition of the Court’s jurisdiction. The Court did not examine the substance of the issue for reasons of formality, due to lack of competence.

https://www.mfa.gr/en/issues-of-gree...tal-shelf.html

There goes your argument.

[PointOfViewGun]

We wrote the smae time so please read my previus post. Also If Turkey thinks that International Law about miritime borders is in her favor WHY DOES NOT SIGN the treaty?
Islands do not have only 12 miles EEZ but that can be reach -according to each case up to 200 miles. That is the main dispute in the Chinese Sea you know ! The equality you mention is only about borders in watre and air (middle line distance) not EEZ in open seas! So here is the chalenge. Convibce your Presiident to sign the MONDEGO BAY (am i right about the treaty's name) treaty and solve the matimime issues with Greece and Cyprus via its laws. Does he dares to do what his previus Turkey goverments refused to do in the past?

I have explained why Turkey didn't sign the convention before though. Turkey was present in the convention and made its objections but the convention was dragging on and many of the powers that had clear borders wanted it to be over. The issues Turkey raised went unanswered as most countries had simple borders. In the end, the convention was called to an end and Turkey refrained from signing it.

I'm not referring to an equality but an equity. The two are quite different. As I said, ICJ and other international bodies, didn't always gave the 200 nm EEZ that Greece wants to give to every little island regardless of circumstances.

Actually, Greece went to the ICJ on the issue of Continental Shelf back in 1976:
https://www.mfa.gr/en/issues-of-gree...tal-shelf.html
There goes your argument.

Which argument of mine in the post you quoted you're referring to?

[AnthoniusII]

I have explained why Turkey didn't sign the convention before though. Turkey was present in the convention and made its objections but the convention was dragging on and many of the powers that had clear borders wanted it to be over. The issues Turkey raised went unanswered as most countries had simple borders. In the end, the convention was called to an end and Turkey refrained from signing it.

I'm not referring to an equality but an equity. The two are quite different. As I said, ICJ and other international bodies, didn't always gave the 200 nm EEZ that Greece wants to give to every little island regardless of circumstances.

Since Greece -like all countries- has the right to expand its maritime and airspace borders toi 12 nautical miles EXEPT in the areas that that distance conflicts with other national waters or air space (that includes ONLY THE EASTERN marimime borders of the Greek islads close to Turkey AND NOT ALL islands and coasts) ,equity on Turkey's prospective is like this "you have a back yard of 200 square meters but my house has half that size. I don't care if your backyard IS YOURS I WANT THE HALF OF IT!

[Odenat]

Since Greece -like all countries- has the right to expand its maritime and airspace borders toi 12 nautical miles EXEPT in the areas that that distance conflicts with other national waters or air space (that includes ONLY THE EASTERN marimime borders of the Greek islads close to Turkey AND NOT ALL islands and coasts) ,equity on Turkey's prospective is like this "you have a back yard of 200 square meters but my house has half that size. I don't care if your backyard IS YOURS I WANT THE HALF OF IT!

Your example about backyards is totally wrong. Let me correct it;

Right now, there are 300 yards between your house and mine and there is no fence between. You are saying that 298 yards belong to you and 2 yards belong to me. Therefore, each time i get out of my house, i need to ask permission from you. You have no court order or no land registry that says the land belongs to you. Your brothers and sisters that lives in neighboring houses always accept what you say, gives you arms and money. When i say that we need to share the land equally, you say i'm threatening "your" land.

[AnthoniusII]

Your example about backyards is totally wrong. Let me correct it;

Right now, there are 300 yards between your house and mine and there is no fence between. You are saying that 298 yards belong to you and 2 yards belong to me. Therefore, each time i get out of my house, i need to ask permission from you. You have no court order or no land registry that says the land belongs to you. Your brothers and sisters that lives in neighboring houses always accept what you say, gives you arms and money. When i say that we need to share the land equally, you say i'm threatening "your" land.

You look smart enough to know thatyour argument is not valid.
An example Chios island is a mile away from the Turkish coasts in the nearest distance. Ofcourse in that case the solution of the "middle line" is obvius. Not Greece nore Turkey HAS THE RIGHT to expand its teritory beyond that middle line.
Chios island though has a west shore part that "looks" the opposite side from the Turkish shores. In that part of the island maritime law gives Greece the right to expand the maritime and air borders up to 12 miles. If Greece will follow that example is true that the 12 miles in the CENTER OF THE AEGEAN sea create close teritories. In that case the Maritime Law (the one Turkey REFUSES to sign) obliges Greece to create 4 miles WIDE naval paths for INETRNATIONAL naval trafic...In the AIR SPACE things are different because no matter if the air space is 6 or 12 miles the responsibillity in ALL THE AEGAEN has by ICAO the FIR of Athens! So the argument that Turkey with Greece having 12 miles maritime borders will be issolated in not valid in ANY SENCE. You look quite smart and know english quite well to read that treaty about that issue. So..we return to the backyard example. EEZ of islands determined by the same laws that Turkey refuses to axept, So it says "international law gives you 200 square miles to you? To avoid a war with me give me half of yours like all boolies do in schools for the lunch od weak kidds. But remember. In WW2 Italy has the same idea about Greece that it was weak. Germany came and rescued the Italian forces and Albanian. If Turkey takes the same risk and war wont go well with Greece which country will fight side by side with you to save you?

[Gromovnik]

It's so hilarious how you guys see international relations.

[AnthoniusII]

It's so hilarious how you guys see international relations.

Hilarius? 108 pilots in both sides died in dogfights in an un official war since 1974.
Land border incidents with Greek patrol soldiers dead in fire exchange while they tried to share cigarets with a Turkish patrol ...not to count the casualties that did not go public.
3 navy helicopter crew dead by turkish fire in 1996 (the year i was soldier) .. Do all these look hilarius to you?