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Thread: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

  1. #21
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    It was a fleet of several fishing ships as well as a several ships doing geological explorations for oil or gas.
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  2. #22

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    It was a fleet of several fishing ships as well as a several ships doing geological explorations for oil or gas.
    The most advanced geological exploration ship indeed:



    I'm sure they reported as such in Romania...
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  3. #23

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Greece's top national security advisor resigns over Turkey remarks
    Diakopoulos embarrassed the Greek government by saying in a TV interview that the Turkish ship had been able to conduct research — contradicting the official narrative that Greek naval ships deployed to the area had prevented any real work from being carried out over the country's continental shelf.
    This is interesting. I understand how nationalistic both sides can be but Greece is really selling the story in Greece that they're able to stop Oruš Reis with its now 8 Turkish warships from conducting research in the target area? Its kinda public knowledge at this point. Anyone can go to MarineTraffic website and see that Oruš Reis vessel is doing a grid pattern in the target area to map the ocean floor.
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  4. #24
    goro's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    As long as Germans keep licking Turkish balls Greece can't do anything but observe. Public knowledge here is that there was some harassment and close observation in the first days but since the EU talks greek ships have withdrawn and just observe from afar. I can see the ships from my house and in the first days there was crazy activity. At this point only thing stopping the Oruc Reis is a torpedo but of course that would never happen. Maybe if it was in the Aegean but that far from support i doubt Greek navy will attempt anything risky without substantial support from EU. Erdogan is playing his hand and since he does anything he wants without interference he will just continue being bolder and bolder. Hopefully he gets a heart attack or something and things get back to normal.

  5. #25

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Quote Originally Posted by goro View Post
    As long as Germans keep licking Turkish balls Greece can't do anything but observe.
    What kind of a claim is this please? How are Germans supporting in this case Turkey? They already bringed Turkey back to the table with Greece but Greek hypocrisy on it┤s finest signed a Deal with Egypt as the result of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by goro View Post
    Public knowledge here is that there was some harassment and close observation in the first days but since the EU talks greek ships have withdrawn and just observe from afar. I can see the ships from my house and in the first days there was crazy activity. At this point only thing stopping the Oruc Reis is a torpedo but of course that would never happen. Maybe if it was in the Aegean but that far from support i doubt Greek navy will attempt anything risky without substantial support from EU.
    Oh no if it┤s was the Aegean anything would be different? You know we are talking here about Eastern Mediterranean which is far far away from Greece. Just for the clarification you live where exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by goro View Post
    Erdogan is playing his hand and since he does anything he wants without interference he will just continue being bolder and bolder. Hopefully he gets a heart attack or something and things get back to normal.
    This is just a delusional thinking that this Issue will be solved with the death or resign of Erdogan.

  6. #26

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Quote Originally Posted by goro View Post
    As long as Germans keep licking Turkish balls Greece can't do anything but observe. Public knowledge here is that there was some harassment and close observation in the first days but since the EU talks greek ships have withdrawn and just observe from afar. I can see the ships from my house and in the first days there was crazy activity. At this point only thing stopping the Oruc Reis is a torpedo but of course that would never happen. Maybe if it was in the Aegean but that far from support i doubt Greek navy will attempt anything risky without substantial support from EU. Erdogan is playing his hand and since he does anything he wants without interference he will just continue being bolder and bolder. Hopefully he gets a heart attack or something and things get back to normal.
    If it is known that the Greek ships withdrew to a distance why did the advisor have to resign?

    The area in question is over 100 nm from the closest land mass belonging to any country. How do you manage to see that far?

    Also, what justifies torpedoing Oruš Reis?
    Last edited by PointOfViewGun; August 21, 2020 at 03:28 AM.
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  7. #27
    goro's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    I live in one of the closest land masses to the area . I don't see the Oruc Reis but i see the greek ships going that way faintly. I never said to torpedo it, i said only thing that will stop it is a torpedo. And i don't have the faintest idea why that advisor resigned. I only read it here today.

  8. #28

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Quote Originally Posted by goro View Post
    I live in one of the closest land masses to the area . I don't see the Oruc Reis but i see the greek ships going that way faintly. I never said to torpedo it, i said only thing that will stop it is a torpedo. And i don't have the faintest idea why that advisor resigned. I only read it here today.
    The closest land mass would be the tiny island Kastellorizo which is about 100 nm away from the area as I mentioned. The next closest island, Rhodes, or the next one, Karpathos, are even further away. You'd simply see navy ships passing through. Same with people living in İzmir or Antalya.

    Well, he is also the read admiral of the Greek navy. So, I doubt the Greek media largely ignored his resignation. Their English service seems to be covering it.

    I didn't mean that you wanted to torpedo Oruš Reis, however, my understanding is that you think it would be justified, that Greece has the right to do so. Is that wrong? If not, why you think it does in this particular area?
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  9. #29
    goro's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    I can see the ships going towards the area. I live on south side of Rhodes. I would justify aggressive maneuvers against the ships. In the best case scenario for you, you're still in disputed waters. Turkey would never be so bold if they didn't have the upper hand in diplomacy and military strength. This is simply backing a claim with military power. It doesn't matter if Greece is in the right or wrong. In the present situation we can't do anything about it because if it escalated in war Greece would lose much more than Turkey. Same thing applies with the Yavuz illegal drilling. Did they go to courts or something about rights of drilling. No they just drill illegally because they know Cyprus can't do anything about it. If Cyprus had a similar military strength it could rightfully seize Yavuz or fire on it and Turkey couldn't do jack about it.

  10. #30

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Quote Originally Posted by goro View Post
    I can see the ships going towards the area. I live on south side of Rhodes. I would justify aggressive maneuvers against the ships. In the best case scenario for you, you're still in disputed waters. Turkey would never be so bold if they didn't have the upper hand in diplomacy and military strength. This is simply backing a claim with military power. It doesn't matter if Greece is in the right or wrong. In the present situation we can't do anything about it because if it escalated in war Greece would lose much more than Turkey. Same thing applies with the Yavuz illegal drilling. Did they go to courts or something about rights of drilling. No they just drill illegally because they know Cyprus can't do anything about it. If Cyprus had a similar military strength it could rightfully seize Yavuz or fire on it and Turkey couldn't do jack about it.
    Just for reference, this is the area Oruš Reis is operating in:



    This is the area Greece is somehow making a claim over. Its important to note that it mostly falls to the east of the maritime border agreement between Greece and Egypt. The primary reason for this specific research is that agreement. Turkey didn't started the research out of the blue. It's merely reciprocating unilateral Greek actions. Before the agreement Turkey and Greece were going to meet up to discuss the issue in Germany but the signing of the agreement was seen as a middle finger to that. Hence, Turkey sent the Oruš Reis research vessel to the area.

    Everything you said applies to Southern Cyprus and Greece as well. Yet, we never hear those arguments when they do it...
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  11. #31

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Why would you assume the issue would be resolved without Erdoğan? This isn't his personal issue, even if he's gone, his replacement wouldn't dare to back away either, as the public has a united approach except for a few cracked voices.

  12. #32
    goro's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Libya Turkey EEZ agreement almost lays claim to the beaches of Karpathos. It's so close to Greek land i could swim from my house in the Turkish supposed EEZ. Greek Egypt agreement was made quite after in answer to that agreement. I doubt Libya would risk destroying relations with Greece completely unless GNA was grasping for air and Erdogan offered help in return for such agreements, oil etc. This bold agreement would never have happened in times of peace and stability in Libya.
    Also there is no Southern Cyprus. There is Cyprus and the illegally occupied north side of it. Turkish pawn on the north side just claims what Erdogan tells them to claim. If the puppet state says it has an EEZ it is by law owned by Cyprus. They have no rights to any EEZ. Their land and sea belongs to Republic of Cyprus. They just don't have the power to reclaim it.

  13. #33

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Quote Originally Posted by goro View Post
    ...Also there is no Southern Cyprus. There is Cyprus and the illegally occupied north side of it. Turkish pawn on the north side just claims what Erdogan tells them to claim. If the puppet state says it has an EEZ it is by law owned by Cyprus. They have no rights to any EEZ. Their land and sea belongs to Republic of Cyprus. They just don't have the power to reclaim it.
    I don┤t even go further deeper on your reply to Libya Turkey EEZ but there is a Greek Side of Cyprus aswell an Turkish One which is divided in South and North. The Result of this is known action besides the Greeks in young History which was an illegally annexation purpose of Cyprus.

    If you don┤t remember your own young History here are some Sources:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_junta

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_C..._d%27%C3%A9tat


  14. #34
    goro's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    I know Greek History quite well. Northern Cyprus is recognized only by Turkey and itself. Therefore an illegal state. If and if nots don't matter. The legal fact remains.

  15. #35

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Quote Originally Posted by goro View Post
    I know Greek History quite well. Northern Cyprus is recognized only by Turkey and itself. Therefore an illegal state. If and if nots don't matter. The legal fact remains.
    Illegal is an allegedly purpose of ignoring that you don┤t control the half of your country but claiming that you are the only government and signing deals like these:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    The Greek Cypriot Administration of Southern Cyprus never will resemble fully the government of Cyprus while ignoring that there is Northern Cyprus which they do not even control - for example East Germany long time did not get recognized but in reality they exists aswell.

    Btw you should read that Sidenote on the right bottom corner of that Map which is made Southern Cyprus. Claiming something like these which does not slightly a level of acceptance is truly Illegal.

  16. #36

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Quote Originally Posted by goro View Post
    Libya Turkey EEZ agreement almost lays claim to the beaches of Karpathos. It's so close to Greek land i could swim from my house in the Turkish supposed EEZ. Greek Egypt agreement was made quite after in answer to that agreement. I doubt Libya would risk destroying relations with Greece completely unless GNA was grasping for air and Erdogan offered help in return for such agreements, oil etc. This bold agreement would never have happened in times of peace and stability in Libya.
    Also there is no Southern Cyprus. There is Cyprus and the illegally occupied north side of it. Turkish pawn on the north side just claims what Erdogan tells them to claim. If the puppet state says it has an EEZ it is by law owned by Cyprus. They have no rights to any EEZ. Their land and sea belongs to Republic of Cyprus. They just don't have the power to reclaim it.
    That's just false. No matter what map you'd look there wouldn't be a Turkish EEZ claim within the 6 nm territorial waters of any Greek island. Turkey is simply claiming the maximum it thinks it can like Greece does. The difference is that in international practice the end result in arbitration would be closer to Turkish interpretation. In times of peace and stability, Turkey would be making an agreement with Egypt and Israel. Greece simply wanted to exploit hostilities between those countries with Turkey.

    In any case, Greek claims and apparently handling of it, in this particular case, has no justified basis. They're trying to bully Turkey, along with the help of Macron's own ego, to get resources that will not exactly belong to them in the end.
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  17. #37
    goro's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    The problem with Turkey is that whenever there is a claim, disagreement or anything diplomatic involving Greece it is followed by Turkish trespassing in the Aegean. The problem doesn't lie on the Turkish claims. It is the aggressive, imperialistic way they try ton enforce their claims. Kastelorizo issue should be resolved with dialogue and concessions by both sides.
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; August 22, 2020 at 01:49 AM. Reason: Off-topic part removed

  18. #38

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Quote Originally Posted by goro View Post
    The problem with Turkey is that whenever there is a claim, disagreement or anything diplomatic involving Greece it is followed by Turkish trespassing in the Aegean. The problem doesn't lie on the Turkish claims. It is the aggressive, imperialistic way they try ton enforce their claims. Kastelorizo issue should be resolved with dialogue and concessions by both sides.
    Increasing your Airspace from 6 nautical mile to 10 and your Sea Border from 6 nautical mile to 12 and then to start yelling Turkey is violating my Airspace or Sea Border is what exaclty? Did you even had a lesson in Geography?

    This means nothing else then when a Turkish Fighter is flying over Turkish South-Western Border it┤s on the same time violating Greek Airspace.

    Decisions which are just one-sided without the involvement of the other Party which affects them directly or even ignoring their opinion in this case are agressive, imperialist move to enforce your allegedly claims.
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; August 22, 2020 at 01:50 AM. Reason: Off-topic part removed - Contintuity

  19. #39

    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...

    Quote Originally Posted by goro View Post
    The problem with Turkey is that whenever there is a claim, disagreement or anything diplomatic involving Greece it is followed by Turkish trespassing in the Aegean. The problem doesn't lie on the Turkish claims. It is the aggressive, imperialistic way they try ton enforce their claims. Kastelorizo issue should be resolved with dialogue and concessions by both sides.
    What kind of trespassing happened in the Aegean in relation to the claim we're discussing in this thread?
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  20. #40
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    Default Re: The Fight for Mediterranean: Turkey, Greece, France, Libya, Egypt ...


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