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Thread: Islamophobia in the West

  1. #161

    Default Re: Islamophobia in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    This is a lie... Sahih al-Bukhari 6922 states, and I quote ..."according to the statement of Allah's Messenger, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'" As this is a part of the Islamic source material - its a part of Islam. For us dirty unbelievers that essentially translates into *Mohammed said - anyone who leaves Islam, kill them*. So that settles that, I think.
    Quran doesn't prescribe any worldly punishment for apostasy. Hadith, the human creation, that differs in use from region to region, can not dictate what Islam is.

    Female Circumcision (FGM/C) between the Incorrect Use of Science and the Misunderstood Doctrine
    n 1998, scholars from over 35 Islamic Countries came together at Al-Azhar University, Cairo to discuss FGM/C alongside other issues related to reproductive health. They came to the conclusion that FGM/C is a habit that is non-obligatory in Islam, given that it has never been mentioned in the Holy Qur'an, and there are no citations in Prophet Muhammad's Hadith containing any evidence of authentic isnad (chain of narration) that could justify a Sharia provision on so important an issue for human life as FGM/C. Further, Muslim jurists have not reached unanimous consent on FGM/C.
    Egypt mufti says female circumcision forbidden
    CAIRO, June 24 (Reuters) - Egypt's state-appointed Grand Mufti said on Sunday that female genital cutting was forbidden by Islam after an 11-year-old girl died while undergoing the procedure at a private medical clinic in southern Egypt.


    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    I am hardly an expert on FGM-matters but I am pretty sure that this "99%-claim" is a fabrication. I can not find anything that actually support or confirm that in the Prevalence of female genital mutilation wiki-page or in the Religious views on female genital mutilation wiki-page. Neither can confirm or provide basis for that impressive 99% claim. However, I certainly can find plenty that contradicts it and suggest otherwise. UNICEF lists the top 5 countries with the highest levels of support for FGM - Mali, Guinea, Sierra Leone, Somalia and Egypt - and all 5 just happens to be Islam-majority countries. ...What a coincidence... And yet, supposedly 99% of all FGM is still somehow magically committed by non-Muslims almost exclusively - according to the claim. It does not add up very well, now does it? The "99%-claim" also provides us with a bunch of other unexplained paradoxes for us to consider as well. I will just forward a few here...
    That's not what I was claiming. I was pointing out that Mithradates' claim "99% of FGM committed by Muslims" was false.


    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    ..."It's a region specific practice, not religion specific."

    Folks, I'm pretty sure this claim is a fabrication as well... After all, that quite some "region" we are talking about there - it is spanning from the coast of west Africa all the way to Egypt and horn of Africa, and then it continues from the Arabic peninsula to parts of the middle east then parts of Iran and Pakistan - and then again in Malaysia, Indonesia and Brunei. Curiously, it also happens to match up rather well with many (if not most) Islamic territories along the way somehow - what strange coincidence, isn't it? Furthermore, multiple Islamic councils all over the world have de facto offered their theological opinions and conclusions on FGM - that would be utterly redundant if FGM was not somehow relevant or important to Islam somehow - as is claimed. Obviously that is not true and thus we have yet another fabrication, on that note...
    FGM is mainly an African problem. It predates both Islam and Christianity where neither have any basis for doing it.

    Female Genital Mutilation/Cutting: A statistical overview and exploration of the dynamics of change
    NIGER55% of Christian girls and women have undergone FGM/C, compared to 2% of Muslim girls and women
    If its such a creation of Islam why do Christians practice it?

    Meanwhile:
    Study finds 'huge' fall in FGM rates among African girls
    Using data from 29 countries and going back to 1990, the report's authors found that the biggest fall in cutting was in East Africa.
    The prevalence rate there dropped from 71% of girls under 14 in 1995, to 8% in 2016, the study said.
    Some countries with lower rates - including Kenya and Tanzania, where 3-10% of girls endure FGM - helped drive down the overall figure.
    In North Africa, the rate fell from almost 60% in 1990 to 14% in 2015.
    West Africa also saw a significant drop, from 74% of girls in 1996, to 25% in 2017.




    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    ..."Vast majority of Muslims don't practice it."

    Its hard to tell for sure folks... It is clear is that at least half of all Islamic countries in the world do practice FGM to various extents - and that circumstance alone suggests that many, if not a majority of Muslims do practice it somehow. As many Muslims do live in such Islamic countries we can be rather certain that it is not a nominal minority we talking about here (Pakistan and Iran might be exceptions here). However without the hard data one can only speculate on this, but it is clear it is nowhere close to a small insignificant minority - as we are led to believe by the claim - and in that sense, the claim is obviously untrue and blatantly dishonest. As is so often the case with various pro-Islamic activism. If in doubt, Youtube have plenty of clips of such stuff...
    This is where bigotry kicks in hard. You base your claims on data that you now claim to be misleading just so that you can expand your viligication. Likely less than 20% of the Muslim world practices FGM and the numbers are falling. There are even Muslim majority countries where it virtually doesn't exist. The fact is only a fraction of Muslims practice FGM and these are concentrated in a number of states mainly in Africa. So, yes, vast majority of Muslims do not practice it.
    The Armenian Issue
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  2. #162

    Default Re: Islamophobia in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Yup, this is certainly ignorance and bigotry. You're failing to address most of what I said while trying to shoot random negative points about Muslims. You're trying to muddy the waters to keep your vilification alive. You want people to be on the defensive for whatever bad did whatever Muslim does while doing your utmost to avoid applying the same standards elsewhere. That's what Islamophobia is. If you could acknowledge what I said and gave an honest attempt at addressing it I would take your words for criticism of the Muslim world. That's not really happening here. You make a claim. I correct it then you jump to something else without addressing it. There is a reason why you keep shooting new points with each posts while leaving others unresolved. We are, of course, trying to understand what pushes someone to distort reality like this to keep fueling one's own biases.
    Again, you.don't provide any facts, just make assertions and engage in name calling. It is you fail to address the facts I have raised, and you are the one randomly brings up negative points about others to distract about others. It is you who are muddying the waters, not me. When have you ever acknowledged the atrocities being committed by Muslims? You refuse ro acknowledge the Armenian Genocide or any other massacre by Muslims.

    We concentatw on Islam, because more atrocities are committed in its name than other religions. That is not bigotry, but fact.

    - Name an example of another religion where thousands of men from other countries, whose only thing in common is their religion, go to other countries to set a government in the name of their religion, raping and murdering in the process, as ISIS has done, in current times. If you can't provide the example, my pont is proven.

    - Give an example where orgsnized groups attacked other religions' places of worship as Muslims did on the Easter Sri Lanka church bommbings. If you can't the example, my point is proven.

    - Talking about Uganda which by your admission no longer has the death penalty, and was never a leading Christian country in any sense, and ignoring Muslim countries, some which are leading Muslim countries, is muddying the waters, and you are the one doing the muddying, not me. To assert Iran is not a leadig Muslim country would be a lie and you know it. To assert thd 2nd largest Muslim country is not in some sense a leading Muslim country, is another lie.

    - That an Islamic country, the land where Islam existed the longest, was the last country in the world to give women the basic the right to drive, is significant. That Muslims countries were the last to officially abolish slavery. That the Quran officially gives to rape slaves is significant. (Quran 4:24, 70:22-30, 23:5,6, 33:50 gives clear ok for men to have sex eith their slaves and since consent was not required, that this rape. Bukhari volume 9 #506 makes it clear rape is involved)

    - That a leading Islamic country like Iran tolerates child brides as young as 10 is significant. Iran has historically been a center of Islamic culture, and has been Muslim for a very long time. Moreover, the issue isn't just with the child brides, but that the grooms are so much older than their brides, sometimes 50. While Muslims like yourself nomdoubt will bring up some example of Christian African countries with young brides, the difference there is the groom is also very young, just a few years older thsn the bride, a totally different case. Iran with its child brides and much older grooms is merely following Muhammad being 50 when he had sex with 9 years old Aisha*.

    * Many Muslims flat out lie and deny Mhuhammad had sex with 9 years old, but here is a video where even a Muslim condemns those lies, and admits Aisha was only 9 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ywJIkXvrHpo)

    - It is your bringing the example of Pakistan having a woman prime minister that is an examplemof bringing up irrevelant points, not my example. The fact that Pakistan had a woman prime.minister once 30 years ago does not prove Muslim countries havd an enlightened attitude toward woman, any more than England having a woman leader 400 years ago proves the t was a hot bed of feminism back then. As a matter of fact, Pakistan had second highest gender disparity rating of 140 countries, only Yemen being worse (see my previous post for link). Woman as a rule are worse off in Islamic countries than other countries as the gender disparity ratings show. How will conditions for woman improve in Islamic countries if Muslims.like you refuse to admit the truth?

    - By refusing to acknowledge any problems with Islam that the rest of us who are not blinded by a partiality toward Islam can see, you are actually promoting what you call Islamophobia. I would not bring up these criticism of Islam if you woukd acknowledge the reality. Was Christianity just as bad at one time? Yes, but thatnwas in the past, and we are talking about the present. Has the West done some things just as bad as terrorist, not in the name of religion, but in the name of our secular "values". The US might not have intended it, but it created. mess in Iraq and led romas many deaths as Islamic terrorist, that I can admit.

    If you want defend Islam, you would be better off showing the double standards there. I can see Muslims being furious about innocent Muslims being killed in drone strikes, and the fact it was a mistake does fact poor sob is dead. Pretty arrogant for the US to conduct assassinations on foreign soil, and I can see the desire to strike back the only way they can. I wonder how.many terrorist were men went into Abu Graib prison as innocent and came out as terrorist due tomthe abuses there? It is rather double standard to criticize Islam but not the CIA.and the things it has done. Your arguments would have more force if instead of talking about ancient history such as the crusades, you stuck to more recent events as counter arguments.

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