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Thread: Could modern tech bring back direct democracy?

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    AqD's Avatar 。◕‿◕。
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    Icon3 Could modern tech bring back direct democracy?

    Imagine a government where every laws, rules and agreements are subject to your vote and all the impacts of choices are calculated by math models and presented to you, or leave to AI voting in your preferences.

    No more politicians, campaigns, protests, debates or misinformation.

    Everyone can purpose a law and everyone who purpose a law would need to construct a model for prediction of impacts, from publicly available data and algorithms - you could, for example, know that by voting yes to join a conflict, +10% chance of your city would be hit by terrorist attack and some military manufacturer would get 400% income next year, or that raising tax on a certain product would increase your household cost by 2%.

    Most of the top government positions can be fired or replaced by data analysts who do real jobs helping the society, improving and verifying the prediction models or help construct them.

    Ex politicians can hide in their basements, browse Internet all day and try to raise awareness, like SJWs.

    Wouldn't that be very nice?

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    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: Could modern tech bring back direct democracy?

    If you consider, as I would, democracy to be a system that balances expert analysis of problems (including feasibility and impact studies) and popular support for their solutions, then your proposals does not deliver. The missing ingredient is meaningful accountability. For whoever is making the proposal, there's no incentive to do an a priori expert analysis that goes beyond the knowledge at the disposal of the voters ; beyond what is necessary to secure popular support. It could be argued this accountability is failing in representative democracies as well, but that's not a failing of the political system but of the direction we all, as voters, have allowed it to go in. Until democratic leaders abuse their power to rig society in their favour (Hungary, Poland, Russia, Turkey, to name a few) blaming it on the system is in fact primarily lazy and defeatist. People who shift the blame for their own inaction also won't be the ones who would approach direct democracy with the diligence of a law-maker, which it requires. It is, up to a point, a good thing their influence remains limited, because you can't build any kind of democracy on apathy.
    Last edited by Muizer; August 01, 2020 at 06:15 AM.
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    Basileos Leandros I's Avatar Writing is an art
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    Default Re: Could modern tech bring back direct democracy?

    Such a system in theory sounds amazing, in reality not so much.

    My focus will be on the tech side of things but I do want to point out that if you take this place as a microcosm, direct democracy wasn't a perfect solution. I can propose more or less what I like as a project / award for the forum, but keep in mind that in a direct democracy, with millions of people, the system could be very easily overwhelmed particularly with troll proposals. Also, you can lie very well with statistics and projection models.

    Furthermore, neither does Switzerland (the last place with direct democracy in reality) have a very sound political system either.

    On the tech side of things, implementing a direct vote will require a monumental security effort which as things stand governments are not willing to shell out on. And even with the most secure systems, extremely talented hackers can find a way to get inside it.
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    DaVinci's Avatar TW Modder 2005-2016
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    Default Re: Could modern tech bring back direct democracy?

    bring back direct democracy?
    There never was actual direct democracy anywhere. 'Direct democracy' as such, what the word says in its very sense, is an illusion, and impossible. So unfortunately, the title is already a misinformer, sotospeak. No offence, just saying, or informing.

    And what you describe in 1st post is a kind of representative democracy. What is the existing form in democracies, with diverse various degrees of representation.

    Btw., "SJW" is a buzzword term of the alt-right.

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    Default Re: Could modern tech bring back direct democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    If you consider, as I would, democracy to be a system that balances expert analysis of problems (including feasibility and impact studies) and popular support for their solutions, then your proposals does not deliver. The missing ingredient is meaningful accountability. For whoever is making the proposal, there's no incentive to do an a priori expert analysis that goes beyond the knowledge at the disposal of the voters ; beyond what is necessary to secure popular support.
    But there would be incentives for citizens to request better analysis or perform it themselves, since they would have to make the decisions.

    Wouldn't this compel citizens to take far more responsibilities and be more knowledgeable, than relying on their representatives which has become a new class of hereditary elites who do things solely for their own benefits?

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    Default Re: Could modern tech bring back direct democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaVinci View Post
    Btw., "SJW" is a buzzword term of the alt-right.
    Nope, it's a term used by anyone with at least a bit of brain to describe certain kind of vocal, toxic self-righteous leftists.

    There are two problems with this. First is technical-such system would be centralized, automated and due to sheer amount of information going through in both ways, impossible to be temporarily suspended and replaced by something simpler without totally losing functionality. That means it would be vulnerable to either subversion to manipulate outcome or simpler brute force attacks to disable it in critical time.
    Second is simple. It emphasizes the biggest weakness of democracy. You need educated, engaged public capable of civil discourse to function properly.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Could modern tech bring back direct democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by AqD View Post
    Imagine a government where every laws, rules and agreements are subject to your vote and all the impacts of choices are calculated by math models and presented to you, or leave to AI voting in your preferences.

    No more politicians, campaigns, protests, debates or misinformation.

    Everyone can purpose a law and everyone who purpose a law would need to construct a model for prediction of impacts, from publicly available data and algorithms - you could, for example, know that by voting yes to join a conflict, +10% chance of your city would be hit by terrorist attack and some military manufacturer would get 400% income next year, or that raising tax on a certain product would increase your household cost by 2%.

    Most of the top government positions can be fired or replaced by data analysts who do real jobs helping the society, improving and verifying the prediction models or help construct them.

    Ex politicians can hide in their basements, browse Internet all day and try to raise awareness, like SJWs.

    Wouldn't that be very nice?


    I don't think the average citizen would want to have to make the all the kind of decissions that their elective representives have routinely make. The time it would.take to get themselves properly informed would take too time.out of their daily lives. I think that most people would prefer delegate most of the more mundane decission making to their representatives. Heck, many Americans can't even bother to vote once in every.2 years, so.why would.thwy want to.be involved in the daily running of the government?

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