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Thread: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

  1. #141

    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    No, not moving on from that. Why are you disregarding the entire article just because it's an op-ed? The sources the article lists are still valid sources and if you check the author of the article you'll see that she's written for a lot of different news outlets.

    Just stating it doesn't make it true.
    I'm sure I've admitted being wrong in the past, however if I was wrong very often there'd be not much point debating on here would there?

    We're discussing the wage gap in the USA, not in other countries. The existence or lack-thereof of a wage gap in Israel would be of no impact on the USA.
    I say this very often, but Haaretz is a bad source. Other than being a bad source, it's also behind a paywall.
    I must have missed when either one of us said gender pay gap in the USA. (Predictable blather about how it was to be inferred etc can be skipped in response) The gender pay gap exists in some places. Weird Israel doesn’t only hire women since they are cheaper as your common sense told you. Where did your reasoning go wrong there?

    Technically much of the source here is the Israeli government. Difference between reporting and editorials. If you want PM me and I will teach you the difference between Opinion Pieces and Reported News.

    You think the point of debate is to be right all the time. That is the greatest sadness yet.
    Last edited by wanderwegger; August 01, 2020 at 09:01 PM.

  2. #142

    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderwegger View Post
    One says opinion at the top.
    The factual aspects of an opinion piece are as credible as anything else published by any particular news outlet. Traditionally they were fact-checked, but with the move from print to internet, most outlets have given up on fact checking anything they publish. Forbes claims to be one of the few outlets to still do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Cripes. Here I was thinking gender based pay disparities was a settled debate, even amongst conservatives. I thought the conversation had moved onto justifying "why"
    You're referring to the non-adjusted gender pay gap, nhytgbvfeco2 is referring to the gap or lack thereof once various factors are controlled for.

    For example:

    Abstract: Female workers earn $0.89 for each male-worker dollar even in a unionized workplace where tasks, wages, and promotion schedules are identical for men and women by design. We use administrative time card data on bus and train operators to show that the earnings gap can be explained by female operators taking, on average, 1.5 fewer hours of overtime and 1.3 more hours of unpaid time-off per week than male operators. Female operators, especially those who have dependents, pursue schedule conventionality, predictability, and controllability more than male operators. Analyzing two policy changes, we demonstrate that while reducing schedule controllability can reduce the earnings gap, it can also make workers—particularly female workers—worse off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  3. #143

    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    If credible factual aspects counted here the discussion would have gone
    “the gender pay gap exists the world over”
    “only if you believe the preponderance of data evidence, my common sense tells me it doesn’t exist”
    “oh, I see”
    Last edited by wanderwegger; August 02, 2020 at 12:18 AM.

  4. #144
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderwegger View Post
    I must have missed when either one of us said gender pay gap in the USA. (Predictable blather about how it was to be inferred etc can be skipped in response) The gender pay gap exists in some places. Weird Israel doesn’t only hire women since they are cheaper as your common sense told you. Where did your reasoning go wrong there?
    Well, this thread is about California, which last I checked was in the USA. The article you provided about racism talks about racism in the USA and made reference to the wage gap in.. the USA. So no, obviously we are not talking about the wage gap in Uganda. I'm sure that there are some countries in the world where a wage gap perhaps exists, but that is not relevant to the situation in the USA. Forgive me for not skipping said blather, but I think you knew we were talking about the USA and but still tried to move the goalpost by claiming that it exists somewhere.
    I'm not debating an article I cannot read due to paywall.
    Technically much of the source here is the Israeli government. Difference between reporting and editorials. If you want PM me and I will teach you the difference between Opinion Pieces and Reported News.

    You think the point of debate is to be right all the time. That is the greatest sadness yet.
    Haaretz is very heavily skewed against the Israeli government, and though I cannot speak for this article in particular because it's behind a paywall it is surprisingly easy to skew data and present it in a biased way.

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderwegger View Post
    If credible factual aspects counted here the discussion would have gone
    Quote Originally Posted by wanderwegger View Post
    “the gender pay gap exists the world over”
    “only if you believe the preponderance of data evidence, my common sense tells me it doesn’t exist”
    “oh, I see”

    That's an interesting way of just ignoring his entire post. Much like how you choose to ignore sources provided that contradict and challenge your narrative.
    Last edited by nhytgbvfeco2; August 02, 2020 at 02:48 AM.

  5. #145

    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Does anyone else believe the gender pay gap doesn’t exist?

  6. #146
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderwegger View Post
    Does anyone else believe the gender pay gap doesn’t exist?
    Lol. Is the implication here that a majority cannot be wrong?

  7. #147

    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    The idea that the majority can never be wrong would only be considered an option by the most foolish. This is a query to see if anyone else on this forum besides you disbelieves a single well established fact.

    Thus far it’s crickets. Kind of hoping Common and no one else agrees. I like outcomes easily predictable. Confirms my understanding and the world are in cahoots.

  8. #148

    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Define what you mean by gender pay gap.

  9. #149

    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Forgot about infidel. Maybe him too. The usual definition. Google gender pay gap. I won’t define what sunrise is either. I have minimum expectations of knowledge base.

  10. #150

    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    What is the "usual definition" that you are using?
    Last edited by Infidel144; August 02, 2020 at 12:56 PM.

  11. #151

    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Gender Pay Gap. Sun Rise. Space Shuttle. Some word combinations speak for themselves.
    Last edited by alhoon; August 02, 2020 at 02:25 PM. Reason: off topic part removed

  12. #152
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderwegger View Post
    The idea that the majority can never be wrong would only be considered an option by the most foolish. This is a query to see if anyone else on this forum besides you disbelieves a single well established fact.

    Thus far it’s crickets. Kind of hoping Common and no one else agrees. I like outcomes easily predictable. Confirms my understanding and the world are in cahoots.
    So in other words you are making an argumentum ad populum, despite your denial.
    A "well established fact" that you've failed to prove and ignored evidence pointing to the contrary. However, facts don't care about your feelings. Just because you ignore them doesn't mean that they stop existing.

  13. #153

    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    I feel it was proved well before I ever took a breath and in this thread. Agree to disagree. Now I am curious if anyone else besides you feels it isn’t and hasn’t been.

    Are you talking to yourself or me with the last sentence?

  14. #154
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderwegger View Post
    I feel it was proved well before I ever took a breath and in this thread. Agree to disagree. Now I am curious if anyone else besides you feels it isn’t and hasn’t been.

    Are you talking to yourself or me with the last sentence?
    At some point in history a majority of people thought that the earth being flat was a fact as well. Majority opinion is irrelevant to whether or not something is true.

    You're the one who ignored sources on the matter.

  15. #155

    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    At some point in history a majority of people thought that the earth being flat was a fact as well. Majority opinion is irrelevant to whether or not something is true.

    You're the one who ignored sources on the matter.
    What are your sources on the majority of people on Earth thinking the world was flat as a Fact?
    Last I checked that was a theory. And a debated one.

  16. #156
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    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderwegger View Post
    What are your sources on the majority of people on Earth thinking the world was flat as a Fact?
    Last I checked that was a theory. And a debated one.
    Obviously I have no sources to distinguish whether most of them thought of it as a fact or a theory (doubt most people at the time gave it much thought beyond "yeah, it's flat"). However, this isn't the topic of the discussion is it now?

  17. #157

    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Obviously I have no sources to distinguish whether most of them thought of it as a fact or a theory (doubt most people at the time gave it much thought beyond "yeah, it's flat"). However, this isn't the topic of the discussion is it now?
    You misunderstand. It is a theory that the majority on Earth at any time ever thought the world was flat. And one you read in primary text books. Not higher academics. Establishing one doesn’t know what constitutes a fact has relevance.

    Still no takers on gender pay gap being debunked. Not even a minority. Just a one. The littlest number.
    Last edited by wanderwegger; August 02, 2020 at 08:35 PM.

  18. #158

    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post

    You're referring to the non-adjusted gender pay gap, nhytgbvfeco2 is referring to the gap or lack thereof once various factors are controlled for.

    For example:
    This. nhytgbvfeco2 is correct.

  19. #159

    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    There are two factors in gender pay gap. One is that women are paid less even when they apply for same jobs with same experiences. This has little effect when we consider basic jobs where there is no negotiation for the salary. It matters a lot more when we go higher up. The adjusted numbers usually focus on the lower part, hence, fails to provide the real picture. The study sumskilz uses is a very limited one and it focuses more on life choices. That is the other factor that revolves around women's choices in their work or the choices forced on them.
    The Armenian Issue

  20. #160
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    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    This. nhytgbvfeco2 is correct.
    No no, don't worry, no one agrees with me and I'm a minority of one. If it makes him feel better about himself, where's the harm? If all he can cling on to is a logical fallacy then let him.

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