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Thread: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

  1. #181
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Didn't say or imply either of those but sure. You've been banking on things I didn't argue from the get go.
    Then why did you mention my gender, but recoil when I mentioned hers as response? You assumed it was written by a man, didn't you?
    Would be same as arguing that Earth is flat.
    So you're saying that it is an indisputable fact that women have less control over their own actions than men do. Interesting.

    Not sure how an accessible link changes what I said in the first half there. Something tells me you clearly didn't read the link beyond the title as well.
    I did. Most of the article I don't agree with and is much more aligned with your viewpoint, so one cannot argue that they're framing the data in a way convenient to them, and yet they still presented the same statistic, which addresses the first half of your statement.

  2. #182

    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    So you're saying that it is an indisputable fact that women have less control over their own actions than men do. Interesting.
    Well, it is obvious, even indisputable, that women have less control over their own actions. I mean the systemic, institutional and historical sexism has so ingrained oppression into women that where the main effect comes from is not the lower end of the job spectrum with set wages and thus is of little effect, the real picture is seen with higher salaried positions where, horror of horrors, women might have to negotiate. And, you know, negotiation means there is no control over whether or not a woman can accept terms of a deal.

  3. #183
    Cookiegod's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Correlation does not imply causation. It's not that hard. Learn that statement before you start throwing statistics around. Any proper data miner or statistician knows that simple fact.

    Is there evidence that it's much harder for poor people to climb the social ladder than for the offspring of wealthy people to maintain their status? Heck yes. Especially in the banana states of America.
    But not just there. Success begets success. Failure begets more failure.

    Is there any evidence whatsoever that it's harder for people of colour or for women to climb the social ladder than for white men? None that I have seen.

    The gender wage gap is invented by ignoring a whole load of factors that play into this. Motherhood for example. Want to raise gender equality to Scandinavian levels? Well then you need to introduce day care centers and similar infrastructure to maintain it. And yet you won't eradicate the inequality that comes from different life choices, cultural differences and the likes. And that part is inevitable.

    Similar can be said about racism in the United States. Are the African Americans poor because of racism or are they poor because after winning their freedom they still remained at the bottom of the hierarchy with no education, no money and practically no means to raise to the top?

    This is where the fake out begins. I'm fully on board with trying to alleviate inequality and enable all people to live dignified lives. That's what the left stood for. Then the fake out happened.

    The "positive" discrimination isn't going to harm the rich CEO's son who everyone's imagining when thinking of the evil white man. It's going to harm the white trash who're also at the bottom of the well, but unlike the black community don't even have much of a community.

    I have yet to see anything proving a causational link between skin colour and success (or the lack thereof). I've seen lots of correlations which are a no brainer, but do not prove causation for the reasons stated above.

    If I were particularly snarky I'd joke about a study on social studies people and their level of understanding of statistics, but I'll leave that part out.

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  4. #184

    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Then why did you mention my gender, but recoil when I mentioned hers as response? You assumed it was written by a man, didn't you?
    This have been already explained. If you're not happy with the explanation you're gonna have to live with it.


    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    So you're saying that it is an indisputable fact that women have less control over their own actions than men do. Interesting.
    Pretty much, yeah. Its the sad reality we live in.


    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    I did. Most of the article I don't agree with and is much more aligned with your viewpoint, so one cannot argue that they're framing the data in a way convenient to them, and yet they still presented the same statistic, which addresses the first half of your statement.
    Not convenient to them but to you. Doesn't really address my statement either.
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  5. #185
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    This have been already explained. If you're not happy with the explanation you're gonna have to live with it.
    Your explanation was that the explanation is self-evident. I think so too, but clearly the two of us are thinking of different explanations.





    Not convenient to them but to you. Doesn't really address my statement either.
    Yes, it is indeed convenient for me that the source I used supports my claim.
    It does address your statement, because this statistic proves a large part of my point by looking at single women. Once women are married (and even more-so once they have children) they are more likely to devote time to their family than their career (a statistic brought up in the CBS article from earlier) and don't take as much overtime as men do because they have other priorities and a variety of other factors.

  6. #186

    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Yes, it is indeed convenient for me that the source I used supports my claim.
    It does address your statement, because this statistic proves a large part of my point by looking at single women. Once women are married (and even more-so once they have children) they are more likely to devote time to their family than their career (a statistic brought up in the CBS article from earlier) and don't take as much overtime as men do because they have other priorities and a variety of other factors.
    It doesn't support your position though. It looks at a very limited group of people; young college graduate women living in cities. It also doesn't have an analysis on men vs women with same experience. Women maybe having other priorities not because they choose to but because they're left with them. Raising a child is still seen as the job of the women with little input by the dad. The state support for paternity leave is nonexistent in USA. Often the women is expected to make the sacrifice. You present that as women's own choice.
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  7. #187
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    It doesn't support your position though. It looks at a very limited group of people; young college graduate women living in cities. It also doesn't have an analysis on men vs women with same experience. Women maybe having other priorities not because they choose to but because they're left with them. Raising a child is still seen as the job of the women with little input by the dad. The state support for paternity leave is nonexistent in USA. Often the women is expected to make the sacrifice. You present that as women's own choice.
    I'm sorry, but are you saying that the lack of paternity leave is discriminatory against.. women?

  8. #188

    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    I'm sorry, but are you saying that the lack of paternity leave is discriminatory against.. women?
    Its effect certainly can be.
    The Armenian Issue
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    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  9. #189

    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    I'm sorry, but are you saying that the lack of paternity leave is discriminatory against.. women?
    Everything is discriminatory against women. Including not being discriminatory against women...

  10. #190

    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    Everything is discriminatory against women. Including not being discriminatory against women...
    Lack of paternity leave is not being discriminatory against women?
    The Armenian Issue
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  11. #191
    Cookiegod's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    lmao. I'm very much in favour of paternal leave and am happy to live in a country that offers it, but how is men not having the right for that not female privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    From Socrates over Jesus to me it has always been the lot of any true visionary to be rejected by the reactionary bourgeoisie
    Qualis noncives pereo! #justiceforcookie #egalitéfraternitécookié #CLM

  12. #192

    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    lmao. I'm very much in favour of paternal leave and am happy to live in a country that offers it, but how is men not having the right for that not female privilege?
    Can you paraphrase the question?
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  13. #193
    Cookiegod's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Ok. How the heck is women having a right and men NOT having the same right discriminatory AGAINST women, and not discriminatory against men?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    From Socrates over Jesus to me it has always been the lot of any true visionary to be rejected by the reactionary bourgeoisie
    Qualis noncives pereo! #justiceforcookie #egalitéfraternitécookié #CLM

  14. #194
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    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat.
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  15. #195

    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    Ok. How the heck is women having a right and men NOT having the same right discriminatory AGAINST women, and not discriminatory against men?
    There seems to be a confusion. Infidel144 presented lack of paternity leave as not being discriminatory against women. As if paternity leave is not given to men not to be discriminatory against women. I was asking how that works.
    The Armenian Issue
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  16. #196
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Methinks we’re getting sliiightly away from sex discrimination by the state of California. But yes, if parental leave is given to one sex but not the other, then that is discriminatory.

    I am not one for gay adoption, but I assume it’s a thing in cali. I am curious how much adoption leave for young adoptions there is, and whether both Lesbian and Gay couples get it. If only one did that would be clear discrimination.

    And in the case of Lesbians with surrogate fathers, does only one parent, or both female ‘parents’ get maternity? Confusing indeed.
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  17. #197

    Default Re: California Abandons Racial Equality, but Bans Discrimination on Hair Type. Oh Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Methinks we’re getting sliiightly away from sex discrimination by the state of California. But yes, if parental leave is given to one sex but not the other, then that is discriminatory.

    I am not one for gay adoption, but I assume it’s a thing in cali. I am curious how much adoption leave for young adoptions there is, and whether both Lesbian and Gay couples get it. If only one did that would be clear discrimination.

    And in the case of Lesbians with surrogate fathers, does only one parent, or both female ‘parents’ get maternity? Confusing indeed.

    At least we’ve found a place where Aexodus is pro discrimination based on a factor out of ones control. Heterosexuals should have the Right to adopt but Homosexuals should not. So much for high ideals being behind your positions on racial equality. Which leaves us with the real reason...

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