The best moment/situation when to convert an enemy faction into a satrapy/client state

[twgamer20197]

Do you sometimes convert an enemy faction into a client state/satrapy when you defeat the enemy in its last remaining city? In my case I did it but I see a problem in that: when it is likely that faction gets into war with another faction that you had treaties with, it ruins all what you achieved: you have to either decide whether to allow the alliance to be broken with your satrapy or client state or to let the treaties you have with the other faction to be broken ( such as non-agression, trade )

[Alwyn]

Yes, I sometimes do that.

I agree, that your client state getting into a war with another faction you have treaties with can be a problem. (I believe this is less of a problem with satrapies because they don't have independent diplomacy - however, one of your allies might declare war on your satrapy, which would be awkward). Even so, I think client states can be worth it - as a trading partner, an ally and a source of levy units (especially when the client state or satrapy can fill a gap in your roster.)

[twgamer20197]

It is very frustrating when you had completed a whole province just to be ruined by a war declaration between your satrapy or client state and a faction with whom you have treaties.

Maybe the only case it is worth it to have a satrapy or client state is if it doesn't get involved in any war without your authorization. It would be cool if it gets involved only in your wars. And if it has good units that you think will be very helpful in your battles.

[Alwyn]

Yes, that's frustrating. Even so, I think it's reasonable that subjugating a faction involves taking a risk.

Some players won't want to take the risk, I don't blame them. For me, whether it's worth it depends on the situation. For example, if I'm fighting a war against a larger enemy and if I want to keep my armies advancing (not remaining to garrison newly occupied cities) then making client states or satrapies might help (although this can backfire, as a satrapy can declare war against their overlord). If my enemy has allies and I don't, then turning those allies into my client states/satrapies could turn the tide in a war. If I'm playing a faction without decent sword infantry and if I can subjugate Rome, then potentially I could recruit levy Legionnaries. For example, below are levy Legionnaries in a Carthaginian army (Carthage has decent sword infantry, but it was still fun to recruit some Roman units into my armies).

[twgamer20197]

Wow! That's cool! I mean having Roman units in your armies. You can steamroll on your enemies relatively easy.

I often offer a faction to become my client state or satrapy or at least my military allied ( for accompanying me in my conquests and sharing territories later ) and if it continuously refuses to take the offer, I teach it a lesson: I attack it until I capture its last city and covert it into my sartrapy/client state or making it disappear from the game.

[The Despondent Mind]

delete

[LuckyPistol]

Satrapies > Client States, but I've had much more loyal client states than satrapies. Probably because you'll have a better client state if you do it diplomatically without going to war. With Satrapies at least, they can't drag you into unwanted conflict unless the AI (or enemy player) is comfortable enough to take you head on.

When I find myself with a good amount of cash and in diplomacy with a minor faction that is begging for that trade agreement/non-aggro, I'll usually try to buy them out as a client state if they hit my check boxes:
1) Remote faction with little to no enemies (Knossos, Arabian factions, Steppe factions, etc.)
2) worthwhile units to nab as levies
3) can be used as a border state to defend from a direction I'm not currently expanding in

If I'm taking a client state or satrapy through conquest, it's because they're weak enough that won't be a threat when they rebel and I don't have the resources to maintain control over the settlement should the immediate neighbors attack. Though sometimes it's a great strategy when you're just starting out. For example, as Colchis, you will be at war with Trapezos at the start of the game. Instead of taking the settlement, I recommend creating a client state and use the extra income to build your strength before Armenia comes after you. Sure, Trapezos will probably break off even before Armenia attacks, but by then your economy and military will be able to handle their stacks of militia hoplites

Sometimes though, I like to create client states/satrapies for pure roleplay reasons. I once made a client state out of the Ireland faction via diplomacy to prepare for my invasion of the British Isles. Did the same as Macedon with Pergamon once it took Sardes out; not only were they a great buffer against the Seleucids, the friendly territory helped me successfully stage my advance into Anatolia. As Epirus I made Ardiaei a client state (Illyrian hoplite levies FTW) and then helped them unify Illyria; had a whole province of pirates to aid in my wars! Did I need to make them client states? No, but it was fun!

And I'm sure I'm not the only one who has tried to keep factions I have a soft spot for as client states just so they can survive to the end.

[Alwyn]

Reading this makes me want to try your strategies, for example to play as Colchis and make Trapezos a client state.

You mentioned making Ardaei a client state as Epirus. I did the same thing as Syracuse, and found their axe units (Illyrian Levis and Illyrian Raiders) useful, especially against Hellenic armies. Illyrian Raiders are especially enjoyable to use, with the unusual combination of the guerrilla deployment ability and decent armour (units with that ability generally have little armour, at least in my experience.) As you said, making factions like the Ardaei client states isn't necessary but it's fun.

[LuckyPistol]

Reading this makes me want to try your strategies, for example to play as Colchis and make Trapezos a client state.

Do it, Colchis is an amazingly satisfying yet difficult experience. I've found that Colchis, Baktria, Parthia, and Massalia will make the most out of the temporary client state strategy.

You mentioned making Ardaei a client state as Epirus. I did the same thing as Syracuse, and found their axe units (Illyrian Levis and Illyrian Raiders) useful, especially against Hellenic armies. Illyrian Raiders are especially enjoyable to use, with the unusual combination of the guerrilla deployment ability and decent armour (units with that ability generally have little armour, at least in my experience.) As you said, making factions like the Ardaei client states isn't necessary but it's fun.

I never got much luck with the Illyrian Raiders showing up in the levy pool, which is unfortunate because they're one of my favorite units for all the reasons you listed. The levies work well enough for a javelin-throwing melee unit though.