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Thread: Unusual expansion directions

  1. #1

    Default Unusual expansion directions

    Share your stories of leading a faction outside its historical zones of expansion. I'll start with a few of mine

    1. Epeiros destroying Rome in 30 turns. Pyrrhus developed PTSD from personally approving the initial slaughter of Italiotes. Later on his son Ptolemaios sustained the long-term genocide of Italiote culture through seizing land from Italians and redistributing it to Greek settlers from Syracuse. Ptolemaios then conquered the entirety of the Adriatic coastline and garrisoned the sea with patrols, ushering in a peaceful era of maritime trade free of pirates and Romans. The Helleno-Italian kingdom flourished, with Rome becoming nothing but a distant memory.
    2. Sarmatians invading the Causcus. In a brutal campaign, the Sarmatians out-riddled the Armenians with arrows and seized a strip of land from the Capsian Sea to the Pontic Sea. The Sarmatians gained access to the rich Causcus oil fields - I mean mines, at the cost of legally declaring the popular raiding grounds of Kutatsi a protectorate. Young nobles must pursue their Baal elsewhere...
    3. Ptolemaics hellenize the Arabian peninsula. In the ShoeBopp Alternate Universe, while the Epeirotes were civilizing the unwashed barbarians of Italy, the Ptolemaics were bringing the niceties of Hellenistic culture such as freedom for landowners, and oppression and slavery for everyone else to the backwards inhabitants of Arabia. Of course this involved repeated rebellions and extermination campaigns by Ptolemaic Basileus desperately trying to gain some street cred before their PTO away from the royal court at Alexandria expires. Mauryab in particular keeps doubling in population (and instability) every 3 years or so despite an anachronistic early invention of condoms and parental planning programs. Nevertheless by seizing land from Arab landowners, destroying Arab cultural monuments, and installing brutal, despotic satraps, the Ptolemies were able to make the Arab natives quite happy. They would even over time volunteer in droves to Ptolemaic military training programs. Of course, the Ptolemaics are also keeping Arabian nobles hostages... but this friendly gesture was appreciated. In 210BC a massive army of state-sponsored Thureophoroi, Machairaphoroi, Thorakitai, Euzenoi, Thureopherontes Hippeis, and Aspidotai Hippeis corps recruited from Arabia - I mean South-Eastern Alexandria, set sail from Gerrha and invaded the Taksashilan Kingdom. They were promptly slaughtered by Armored Indian Elephants. The official story was that WMDs were discovered in and launched from Seleucia, which created the carte blanche needed to fund a war against the Seleucid heartlands. Thus another Helleno-Arabic army was comissioned, and the second chapter of the Arabian Expeditionary Force unfolded, which also ended in its complete destruction by Armored Indian Elephants.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Unusual expansion directions

    Technically, an Italiote is a term for a Megale Hellas Greek, like a Syracusian or a Tarentine.

    I don't think there's a single universal term for Non-Greek native inhabitants of the Italian Peninsula.

    Aside of calling them all barbaroi, of course.



    Bosphoran conquest of Scandinavia, on my recent play. Lougiones were wiped by them. At this rate I can also expect the Carthaginian invasion of Britain fairly soon.



    My Epirote League sticks to the traditional money-making grounds. Things might change once I'll try adding the Amber Road to the list of acquisitions. Hellenism is being paid a lipservice at best with Italy being thrown to the Sabellian allies. The capital's back in Dodona, Pyrrhus's ashes turn in his urn.

    Agemas and phalanxes retired, army's all thureos or Sabellian troops. Agrarian reforms and isonomia everywhere. Legacy of Genuos Nikator.
    Last edited by Satapatiš; July 25, 2020 at 04:15 PM.
    Furthermore, I believe that Rome must be destroyed.


  3. #3

    Default Re: Unusual expansion directions

    I find that abandoning Pontus heartlands on turn 1 to take over the weakened Western Anatolia (and possibly Hellas) makes for a much smoother and easier game than dealing with the hell portal in Galatia and Kapadocia.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Unusual expansion directions

    Quote Originally Posted by RodriguesSting View Post
    I find that abandoning Pontus heartlands on turn 1 to take over the weakened Western Anatolia (and possibly Hellas) makes for a much smoother and easier game than dealing with the hell portal in Galatia and Kapadocia.
    Easier until you find out that Pergamon is garrisoned by Indian Elephants courtesy of that obscure script that randomly supplies Hellenic factions with elephants. And Sardis is guarded by the Seleucid stack that was supposed to besiege Ephesus. Jokes aside, your alternate expansion route sounds challenging but rewarding. You can basically do a Pergamon campaign but with Iranian Heavy Cavalry instead of Hetairoi, and without having to conquer all the way to Tarsos to unlock higher tiers of governments. IIRC controlling West Anatolia means you can participate in the KH Diplomacy "missions" early. The +3 Authority boost from bribing your faction leader into winning the Olympics is both valuable and hilarious.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Unusual expansion directions

    Quote Originally Posted by Satapatiš View Post
    Technically, an Italiote is a term for a Megale Hellas Greek, like a Syracusian or a Tarentine.

    I don't think there's a single universal term for Non-Greek native inhabitants of the Italian Peninsula.

    Aside of calling them all barbaroi, of course.



    Bosphoran conquest of Scandinavia, on my recent play. Lougiones were wiped by them. At this rate I can also expect the Carthaginian invasion of Britain fairly soon.



    My Epirote League sticks to the traditional money-making grounds. Things might change once I'll try adding the Amber Road to the list of acquisitions. Hellenism is being paid a lipservice at best with Italy being thrown to the Sabellian allies. The capital's back in Dodona, Pyrrhus's ashes turn in his urn.

    Agemas and phalanxes retired, army's all thureos or Sabellian troops. Agrarian reforms and isonomia everywhere. Legacy of Genuos Nikator.
    My bad, I need to brush up on history. Dang, your campaigns went wild. Bosphorus in German heartlands is feasible, but Carthaginians in Britain is one helluva AU. Your Epirote campaign sounds interesting. A manipular style army is a refreshing way to play a Hellenic faction. Also, agrarian reforms and the high levels of settler colonization? Too much politics, this fair and egalitarian redistribution of land must stop!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Unusual expansion directions

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoebopp View Post
    Easier until you find out that Pergamon is garrisoned by Indian Elephants courtesy of that obscure script that randomly supplies Hellenic factions with elephants. And Sardis is guarded by the Seleucid stack that was supposed to besiege Ephesus. Jokes aside, your alternate expansion route sounds challenging but rewarding. You can basically do a Pergamon campaign but with Iranian Heavy Cavalry instead of Hetairoi, and without having to conquer all the way to Tarsos to unlock higher tiers of governments. IIRC controlling West Anatolia means you can participate in the KH Diplomacy "missions" early. The +3 Authority boost from bribing your faction leader into winning the Olympics is both valuable and hilarious.
    I didn't say a word about Pergamon.

    I am a BAD player, so if I find a route that I am telling is the easiest one, it is the easiest one.

    Go and take Ptolemaioi holdings in Western Anatolia. They are barely garrisoned. Furthermore, there's a fair chance that they will take down one of the Seleucid cities (names flew away from my head), which you will, of course, liberate. Pergamon can be touched if they started expanding out (the city will probably not be as well garrisoned, so the garrison script won't make it too insane to siege out), and Seleucids only if they move the doomstack out (unlikely) or you feel like you built up enough to recruit a fresh army and replenish it right after (most likely after taking basically everything else in the area).

    Alternatively, they are more than happy to sell all their holdings in Anatolia for around 6k-8k a pop, which should be trivial for you to lift up after taking the Ptolemaioi holdings. Seleukids are too stubborn to peace out, so not even starting a war with them will ensure the safety of your Eastern borders. Ally them even, if possible. Alliances are Non-Aggression Pacts, and tend to hold out pretty well.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Unusual expansion directions

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoebopp View Post
    but Carthaginians in Britain is one helluva AU.
    It's my meddling. We're allied for 260+ turns, this faction has no one to fight in Africa (I needed quick war rep for the Faction Leader and to somehow provoke Ptolemies into suicidal war because I'd like to not be an aggressor BUT I needed those grain fields to feed Greece AND Numidians were Ptolemaic allies... Poor Numidians. Their last horde was ganked turn after turn by two armies.) so they're focusing on going north. Even if they're beaten they just turtle up for a while and send more troops from Libya. There still are Lusitanii and Areuakoi on the map... Barricaded in their last settlements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoebopp View Post
    A manipular style army is a refreshing way to play a Hellenic faction.
    Genuosian army is mostly Hellenic in its tactics, only it uses Cohors Sociorum as the anvil. They hit like a wet noodle but they hold the line well and the free upkeep means I get to keep their experience between campaigns (also, two units can cover as much space as can three units of thorakitai so Italians are more expensive only when you hire only one unit). They still need someone on the flanks being the hammer, else the enemies would be more likely to die of the old age...

    Pardon my bad, it's not "Cohors Sociorum" anymore. It's "Italoi Thureophoroi" now. History is written by the victors, after all.

    But of course when this "Greek" army is made of Italian and Thracian backbone then the populace in those regions gets more breathing room so I can get more of them. So much for Hellenism in practice. Men camping at bouleuterion in Dodona care only about how many troops they can get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoebopp View Post
    Too much politics, this fair and egalitarian redistribution of land must stop!
    The Aiakidai dynasty brough it upon everyone by having only daughters... The Potential Successor trait now is always given to a man with the highest Influence in his generation. In-universe probably it would be the council at Dodona handing the strategia to the most popular politician. Then I noticed that following the Greek isonomia actually gives more thureos troops... Thus, democracy won!

    This alternate Ancient Earth turns more and more cutthroat politics. Soon the only choice left there will be to pay either Epirotan or Carthaginian taxes.


    The added benefit is that it now makes sense for the Epirote League to keep the alliance with Carthage when the two dominant powers have similar model of government.
    Last edited by Satapatiš; July 26, 2020 at 01:53 PM.
    Furthermore, I believe that Rome must be destroyed.


  8. #8

    Default Re: Unusual expansion directions

    Romans in Gawalarabargas (spelling?). The province NW from Skythiapolis. They established a supply line of settlements from there to Italia.

    Numidians attacking Cyprus. They failed the siege though, so this may not count.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Unusual expansion directions

    Quote Originally Posted by Colos1987 View Post
    They established a supply line of settlements from there to Italia.
    Of all the factions to engage in building elongated empires, the Romans are always the worst offenders. In most playthroughs they raze a path from North Italy clockwise around the Alps, forming a literal sickle. Then they lose one of the sickle settlements to rebellion, cutting off the Roman settlements north of the Alps from Italy. Funny thing is this Roman bastion tends to hold out for a long time, causing the settlements to completely Romanize in the span of a few dozen turns. It's pretty jarring to encounter these pockets of Roman civilization in the German-French border, with their neat little square cities on the campaign map.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Unusual expansion directions

    Having read the biography of the Yervanduni/Orontids, I determined that one of the more promising Arkahs would one day lead a great expedition to claim Baktria, a Hakhmanishiya satrap of which is the ancestor of the dynasty. My opportunity came shortly after I finished the Seleukides in Alexandria Karmana. Thanks to the losses in soldiers and revenue from my own machinations, the Seleukides had been giving ground in the east, which allowed the Pahlava to claim Parthyaia and Baktria. They sought to claim all the land around the Caspian Sea, and tried to wrest one of the Caucasian Kingdoms from me. This essentially required them to skirt around the Caspian Sea, across densely wooded land that is often filled with rebels, to attack a settlement that is much closer to Hayastan itself than it is to the Pahlavan heartland. With the cataphracts of Hayastan, and Bosporitai Logades I had acquired in an adventure I thought would be frivolous, I took my revenge. The Pahlava did put up a good fight. While I had accounted for their cataphracts, I did not anticipate they would be able to field such numbers of heavy cavalry, and I suffered a few surprise losses for that. However, with the wealth and soldiers of lands spanning from Syria to Karmania, my victory was a question of when, not if. Unfortunately, while the Qarthadastim receive a prestige trait for reclaiming their ancient motherland, and the Boioi receive another prestige trait for claiming Galatia (which can be done with diplomacy instead of warfare), the Yervanduni do not gain such a trait for their homecoming.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shoebopp View Post
    3. In 210BC a massive army of state-sponsored Thureophoroi, Machairaphoroi, Thorakitai, Euzenoi, Thureopherontes Hippeis, and Aspidotai Hippeis corps recruited from Arabia - I mean South-Eastern Alexandria, set sail from Gerrha and invaded the Taksashilan Kingdom. They were promptly slaughtered by Armored Indian Elephants. The official story was that WMDs were discovered in and launched from Seleucia, which created the carte blanche needed to fund a war against the Seleucid heartlands. Thus another Helleno-Arabic army was comissioned, and the second chapter of the Arabian Expeditionary Force unfolded, which also ended in its complete destruction by Armored Indian Elephants.
    Clearly this was divine punishment from Serapis for naming your new settlement after Alexandros instead of Ptolemaios.

    Quote Originally Posted by RodriguesSting View Post
    I didn't say a word about Pergamon.

    I am a BAD player, so if I find a route that I am telling is the easiest one, it is the easiest one.

    Go and take Ptolemaioi holdings in Western Anatolia. They are barely garrisoned. Furthermore, there's a fair chance that they will take down one of the Seleucid cities (names flew away from my head), which you will, of course, liberate. Pergamon can be touched if they started expanding out (the city will probably not be as well garrisoned, so the garrison script won't make it too insane to siege out), and Seleucids only if they move the doomstack out (unlikely) or you feel like you built up enough to recruit a fresh army and replenish it right after (most likely after taking basically everything else in the area).

    Alternatively, they are more than happy to sell all their holdings in Anatolia for around 6k-8k a pop, which should be trivial for you to lift up after taking the Ptolemaioi holdings. Seleukids are too stubborn to peace out, so not even starting a war with them will ensure the safety of your Eastern borders. Ally them even, if possible. Alliances are Non-Aggression Pacts, and tend to hold out pretty well.
    Can confirm. I almost always beeline for the rich cluster of cities in Western Anatolia if playing as Pergamon or Pontos. One time I basically went *around* Galatia to fight Pergamon.

    The Seleukid city you're looking for is probably Sardeis, in the land of Lydia. In one Ptolemaic playthrough I renamed it Lysimacheia after a royal son who managed to crush the Pergamene elite besieging it, at the cost of his life.
    Last edited by BailianSteel; July 27, 2020 at 04:07 AM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Unusual expansion directions

    I don't know if it can be considered as unusual but I have migrated as the Boioi in western anatolia and have essentially secured it up until galatia, playing with a core of celtic units (which I love) and establishing celtic gouvernement in the area with the very diverse aor units of anatolia is currently making for a very interesting campaign, I have just to figure out where I can or cannot establish high level Keltoi gouvernement (such as confederation) in the region, as I currently mostly have migration buildings and alliance in order to still have decent recruitement pools while still behing able to integrate the region into another one of Keltoi migration.
    It really fun so far

    Talking about Keltoi in estern medditeranean and since I've never played the ptolemaic kingdom I was wondering if guys new if there was an option to settle keltoi troops in egypt to have a permanent recruitement pool as them? because I was thinking about playing as them after my Makedonian Hegemony playthrough.
    Last edited by blackbirdgriffin; July 28, 2020 at 05:46 AM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Unusual expansion directions

    I was inspired and have migrated the boii to anatolia. Of the settlements I have taken so far it seems that only Ankara can get higher level of governments than migration. If anyone knows of any nearby settlement that has the capacity for higher level governance let me know.

    My army is almost entirely Greek at the moment. Mercanaries are good but slow recruitment.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Unusual expansion directions

    Nothing really fancy i think but as Epeiros on VH i decided to almost completely focus on the East after i unified Greece. I won't make more moves on the romans, carthaginians or barbarians despite remaining at war with them for RP purposes. The goal is to push towards India because it seems more epic to me. Romans really came across as a low hanging fruit after the initial challenge lol, but taking on the seleucids without being insanely strong is really fun. Jumping to the throat of such a big empire and effectively destroying it feels great, securing the 4 or 5 first settlements past Anatolia was a hell of a fight but now it feels like the seleucids are crumbling as i approach Babylon/Mesopotamia especially now that i recruited elephants from Syria into my armies, it's a blast to see these bad boys back in the game.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Unusual expansion directions

    Quote Originally Posted by sigurdr View Post
    If anyone knows of any nearby settlement that has the capacity for higher level governance let me know.
    Probably Tylis (Byzantium) and other tribal lands in Thrace, up to perhaps the western side of the Pontic sea. My guess is based entirely on the fact that there's a celtic warrior on the mercenary pool in the area.

    Ankyra is a special case because of the Galatians. It is treated like a celtic homeland. Nowhere else in the area it is like that.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Unusual expansion directions

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbirdgriffin View Post
    I don't know if it can be considered as unusual but I have migrated as the Boioi in western anatolia and have essentially secured it up until galatia, playing with a core of celtic units (which I love) and establishing celtic gouvernement in the area with the very diverse aor units of anatolia is currently making for a very interesting campaign, I have just to figure out where I can or cannot establish high level Keltoi gouvernement (such as confederation) in the region, as I currently mostly have migration buildings and alliance in order to still have decent recruitement pools while still behing able to integrate the region into another one of Keltoi migration.
    It really fun so far

    Talking about Keltoi in estern medditeranean and since I've never played the ptolemaic kingdom I was wondering if guys new if there was an option to settle keltoi troops in egypt to have a permanent recruitement pool as them? because I was thinking about playing as them after my Makedonian Hegemony playthrough.
    Part of it is because I put so many turns in as the Boioi, but I find them to be the most fun of all the "barbarian" factions. I probably put in more time on a Boioi campaign than every other "barbarian" faction combined.

    At the 3rd Level of Hellenic Colony in Egypt, you can get a unit of Galatikoi Katoikoi. However, if you want better numbers of Keltoi factional soldiers then once Pergamon finishes their reform they can access +2 Galatikoi Katoikoi from their highest level government.

    Quote Originally Posted by sigurdr View Post
    I was inspired and have migrated the boii to anatolia. Of the settlements I have taken so far it seems that only Ankara can get higher level of governments than migration. If anyone knows of any nearby settlement that has the capacity for higher level governance let me know.

    My army is almost entirely Greek at the moment. Mercanaries are good but slow recruitment.
    I haven't expanded much farther than Ankyra (my long standing ally holds the rest of Anatolia), but it seems like that is the maximum Eastern limit for higher level government. You can build a colony in the rest of Phrygia. Singidunon/Landa Skordiskoi should be reasonably close to Galatia, and it is one of the Boioi's core territories. Byzantion, Thraike, Moisia, and Dardanion also offer Allied State governments.

  16. #16
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar I am your sovereign now
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    Default Re: Unusual expansion directions

    If you check the Post your Screenshots thread, I would be the absolute king of having unusual expansion directions if it weren't for Dooz and his campaigns, where he and the AI both took radical departures from history. Not just as Rome, but also using various Western Greek factions I have roughly recreated the boundaries of the Roman Empire but with additional conquests in Northern Europe and West Asia. Obviously all of North Africa belonged to me each time or was ruled indirectly through Numidian vassals pushed into the Saharan interior. My empires were all fairly reasonable, though, often with the Black Sea region united and most of Germania captured, settled, and turned into allied state territories. The AI sometimes took things into radical directions, with either the Hellenistic Seleucids or the Taksashila Indians taking most of West Asia, Central Asia, and the bit of South Asia on our map. That includes the Seleucids taking over most of Arabia, conquering Armenia and Georgia in the Caucasus before pushing deep into the Pontic Steppe to wipe out or conquer the nomads.

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