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Thread: [Offiial Submod] Alternative Reforms

  1. #1
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default [Offiial Submod] Alternative Reforms

    Hello,

    This thread will be dedicated to alternative or what if reform submods, that can provide a bit of freedom for people who want to try out new stuff.

    Some of them will be centered around existing reforms while others will provide whole new units for what if scenarios, like what would Medewi army look like if they became a superpower?

    1. Alternative Reform for Carthage

    This submod provides a different take on Carthaginian reforms.

    It changes reformed Carthaginian Liby Phoenican Hoplites into Liby Phoenician Pikemen (Thureos reform) and Late Sacred Band into Veteran African Pikemen (Thorax reform).

    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=2174359901

    More info and concept art to follow soon!
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    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Offiial Submod] Alternative Reforms

    Preliminary list of planned releases:

    Alternative Reforms - Sparta

    1. Changes their late reform hoplites into pikemen and moves them to 2nd class. Based on Sparta moving more into pike phalanx combat and opening Homoioi class to more people.

    What If Reforms

    Hellenic factions:
    1. Klibanophoroi - super heavy cataphracts based on Byzantine cataphracts, equipped with lances, bucklers, maces and long swords.
    2. Varýs Phalangitai - heavily armoured phalanx, they are not using any shields and carry short pikes as main weapon.
    3. Spathatoi - scale and mail clad infantry, good for holding the line

    British factions:
    1. Bwa hir - early longbowmen equipped by the king
    2. Teulu - elite cavalry, wearing finely crafted helmets, they use spears, shields and long swords, their horses are covered by leather armour
    3. Fianna - solid and well drilled spearmen

    Germanic factions:
    1. Housecarls - shock infantry equipped with large axes and heavy armours
    2. Gothic cavalry (placeholder name) - heavy germanic cavalry inspired by late Goth horsemen
    3. Francisca infantry - medium/heavy infantry with round shields and able to throw deadly axes

    Medewi:
    1. Medewi Guard - elite infantry, modelled after late Roman and Greek infantry

    Arab factions:
    1. Camel Cataphracts - heavily armoured camelry with soldiers using small but tough shields and long spears
    2. Sword champions - very mobile and hard hitting sword infantry

    Arverni:
    1. Knights - unstoppable charge combined with great morale and proper armour
    2. Dismounted knights - heavy shock infnatry with two handed swords
    3. Crossbowmen - based on reliefs from Roman Gaul period, medium crossbow infantry
    Last edited by KAM 2150; July 27, 2020 at 09:15 AM.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: [Offiial Submod] Alternative Reforms

    I think it would be best to separate the mod by things that are pulled from later eras (Frankish/gothic units for Germans), from things that are wholly conjectural (new spartan pike unit). I’d probably use both, but, for example, I think Axumite units for meroe would be neat (if such things are particularly distinct from current meroe roster.)

  4. #4

    Default Re: [Offiial Submod] Alternative Reforms

    Double post bug sorry
    Last edited by Livin La Vida Loca; July 25, 2020 at 06:48 PM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: [Offiial Submod] Alternative Reforms

    Question on the Skutatoi. From my limited understanding the Byzantine ones were equipped with both spear and sword, so will they come in both versions or just one? Rest of it looks great, although I'm curious to see what the Arverni knights will look like.

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    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Offiial Submod] Alternative Reforms

    Oh yes, I had in mind Spathatoi, not Skutatoi

    Here is some old concept of Arverni knights:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    And here is one for Medewi Guard:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
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  7. #7

    Default Re: [Offiial Submod] Alternative Reforms

    Spathatoi are also good, but its just a shame no additional shielded heavy spears as so many Greek skills and upgrades target spear/pike infantry directly and not melee infantry in general.

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    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Offiial Submod] Alternative Reforms

    That is why they get heavier pikes But I try to also follow a bit more how these armies were evolving so in their case, legionary type units seem more reasonable path. Of course I might build up on it in the future as above is by no means finish deal. I just want to keep amount of new units in manageable way to be able to deliver at all.
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    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: [Offiial Submod] Alternative Reforms

    Is there a chance to have a more naval based reform, which is mostly to help the Barbarians who are hopeless against any faction that might be able to get anything better than a Trieme (even just Trieme.) the most extreme is of course the Nomads who's absolutely hopeless (Gallic heavy raider for example might actually still have a chance if you pull off the boarding really well. )

    The obvious trigger would be to take over enough Hellenic / Roman / Carthaginian settlements, especially places like Rhodes / Athens / Alexandria obviously.

    For Nomads especially, at the very least give them the option to have ships that have better than their basic unarmored axeman. (even their general unit !)

    If possible (unlikely.) I would just prefer if most barbarians don't really have navies but their transport are much faster / less easy to one shot by ramming. (except maybe for the Nomads I guess.) but especially for Illyrians who were quite a sea faring people anyway, they should basically get the mostly full line of ships if they manage to break out a bit.

    A more general overview on factions I think is a bit light.

    Current roster of Kartvelian and Kolchis is insufficient, not sure why Kolchis is Hellenic, it seems more like they were a Hellenic influenced Georgian state? with the upgrades to Armenia, it probably should be consider that they share some of the Armenian upgrades IMHO, with some Greekish stuff? the Popmey invasion of Georgia noted his foe's main strength were foot archers, so maybe a bit more in that respect? so something in between the Medians (great foot archers) and maybe a bit more of a capable ambushing types? with a little more Greek? so if they really develop maybe better Hoplite / Phalanx types. we are talking about what ifs.

    The Desert faction generally, there should be a bit more diversity, a lot of them are really having very little 2nd or 1st class pop type units. For example, Saba has NO cavalry unit that's 2nd pop type, which just seems ridiculous obviously especially given that historically they were probably primarily a mostly mounted army most of the time. ( ok I guess their chariots might be 2nd pop, but that seems very lacking.) I think you're probably referencing early Muslim armies for ideas (the Mubarizun for the elite swords for example.) I have the impression generally that they must have used a lot of longer kontos like early lance, (it really should also one noted that Arabs weren't well noted for horse archeries, though camel archery is a bit different since that's more like just a dragoon type situation.) logically for camels you almost certainly have to use something like a Kontos to even be remotely functional.

    Suggestion, a warrior level type of light lancer calvary similar to Thessilonian lancer types (weaker stats but a bigger unit?), and then maybe also a more standard one for the javelin / sword generic type. Also if they're going to get a Theuros Sword I don't see why they don't have Theuros spears. also a higher level archer, right now there is the general unit who's more of a spearman than archer which is a bit weird, these type of units have been a bit underwhelming in general especially since they often don't benefit from a lot of the general skill / tech upgrades. they have a upgraded spear/archer i would suggest just making that unit a 2nd pop unit with a bit better stats . The early Muslim army from what was described seem to have more hoplite / shieldwall type infantry mainstay, or maybe something more akin to the current Sparabara unit? (their primary shields were light, it seems their main goal is more about just protecting the arches than pushing forward) a mixed unit that can do both but neither well.

    The Numidians are a bit more interesting since it's not fair to put them in the same group as the Arabs, again, they need a bit more 2nd/ 1st level pop units, I would suggest that their obvious path is that if they expand one would consider how the medieval armies worked. the Berbers were mostly light cavalry based on javlin skrimish even well into the middle ages so maybe they really should have some advantage there, the Almoravids infantry seem to have some pike elements which was weird for that period but may something more akin to that (unshieled pikes? we could use more variant of those.) and obviously I think from my understanding the most common trained infantry non-Roman arena after the Roman really started going were really more or less some variants of thuros spearmans with some variance of local circumstances.
    Last edited by RollingWave; July 28, 2020 at 07:20 AM.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: [Offiial Submod] Alternative Reforms

    Would early Slavic units be a good base for this submod for Balkan factions? I know attila has Slavic factions but I have no idea how accurate they are.

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