[SUBMOD] Revised Victory Conditions and Chapters

[Olmsted]

Can this submod be added to an ongoing campaign?

The only part of this submod which will affect an ongoing campaign are the new chapters. The victory conditions cannot be changed once you begin a campaign.

[Demosthenes26]

Wow. Fantastic mod - I have been wanting something like this since my first campaign in Rome 2!

As an Athens fan I have some suggestions based on my understanding of where they attempted to control in the pelopponesian war and even into the hellenistic era.

Athens' population could not be supported by only the grain supply in attica and even within the delian league territories at their height- To maintain it, it was essential to import grain via the black sea and particularly from the Bosporus. Control of this was so vital that despite fighting through rebellions of most of the delian league (with some success) for the last decade of the Peloponnesian war, Athens defeat followed very quickly after losing control of the Hellespont and thus access to the Black Sea grain supply. I think this could be reflected to an extent in all the types of victories ( probably by controlling bithinya et pontus, since Nicomedia controls the Hellespont ingame), with at least one (Economic Victory? replacing narbonesis and sikelea -assuming its possible with resource limitations) requiring not only Bithinya but also the Bosporus and Thrace, to really dominate black sea access.

Sicily was an alternative grain supply, and the disastrous sicilian expedition was Athens' attempt to not be so reliant upon controlling access to the Black Sea (along with naked imperial ambition whipped up by demagogues). despite this Athens had few close cultural and economic ties to sicily and Magna Graecia, since ionians had focused colonization on the coast of asia minor and the black sea more than italy. So I think it makes sense that Sicily is included in the set of VC that doesn't require dominance of the black sea trade routes, with italia there mostly for controlling access to Sicily. I reckon it makes sense that military victory requires control of both the Bosporus and Sicily, being the most expansionist.

Macedon itself was probably the greatest and most consistent enemy of Athens after Spartan hegemony crumbled, and eastern/coastal Macedonia had been key possessions of Athens that weren't fully lost until Philip II. The forests and mines were particularly important for maintaining Athens' fleet, and Athens led multiple revolts against Macedon in the Hellenistic period such as the Lamian war. So I reckon Macedonia could fit not only be in the Military victory but also Cultural victory (replacing Libya? to my knowledge Athens had no special ties there, with Cyrene being a dorian colony).

If those are all too close together to be challenging enough, the province with Cyprus in it ( I think Judea?) might be a way of increasing challenge by forcing some kind of foray into successor heartlands. Though the Ptolemies were the main hellenistic influence in cyprus, Athens had close cultural/economic ties during the persian wars and classical era, and reviving this could be a conceivable stretch goal for an Athens that had already dominated the Aegean.

to summarize, I suggest replacing Narbonensis and Sikelea in Economic victory with Bithinya et Pontus and Thrace, and replacing Libya with Macedonia for cultural victory. Cyprus(Judea) could be a fitting additional challenge somewhere, maybe for military victory

Keep up the great work!

[Fluke]

to summarize, I suggest replacing Narbonensis and Sikelea in Economic victory with Bithinya et Pontus and Thrace, and replacing Libya with Macedonia for cultural victory. Cyprus(Judea) could be a fitting additional challenge somewhere, maybe for military victory

Keep up the great work!

Great suggestions!

[Olmsted]

Wow. Fantastic mod - I have been wanting something like this since my first campaign in Rome 2!

As an Athens fan I have some suggestions based on my understanding of where they attempted to control in the pelopponesian war and even into the hellenistic era.

Athens' population could not be supported by only the grain supply in attica and even within the delian league territories at their height- To maintain it, it was essential to import grain via the black sea and particularly from the Bosporus. Control of this was so vital that despite fighting through rebellions of most of the delian league (with some success) for the last decade of the Peloponnesian war, Athens defeat followed very quickly after losing control of the Hellespont and thus access to the Black Sea grain supply. I think this could be reflected to an extent in all the types of victories ( probably by controlling bithinya et pontus, since Nicomedia controls the Hellespont ingame), with at least one (Economic Victory? replacing narbonesis and sikelea -assuming its possible with resource limitations) requiring not only Bithinya but also the Bosporus and Thrace, to really dominate black sea access.

Sicily was an alternative grain supply, and the disastrous sicilian expedition was Athens' attempt to not be so reliant upon controlling access to the Black Sea (along with naked imperial ambition whipped up by demagogues). despite this Athens had few close cultural and economic ties to sicily and Magna Graecia, since ionians had focused colonization on the coast of asia minor and the black sea more than italy. So I think it makes sense that Sicily is included in the set of VC that doesn't require dominance of the black sea trade routes, with italia there mostly for controlling access to Sicily. I reckon it makes sense that military victory requires control of both the Bosporus and Sicily, being the most expansionist.

Macedon itself was probably the greatest and most consistent enemy of Athens after Spartan hegemony crumbled, and eastern/coastal Macedonia had been key possessions of Athens that weren't fully lost until Philip II. The forests and mines were particularly important for maintaining Athens' fleet, and Athens led multiple revolts against Macedon in the Hellenistic period such as the Lamian war. So I reckon Macedonia could fit not only be in the Military victory but also Cultural victory (replacing Libya? to my knowledge Athens had no special ties there, with Cyrene being a dorian colony).

If those are all too close together to be challenging enough, the province with Cyprus in it ( I think Judea?) might be a way of increasing challenge by forcing some kind of foray into successor heartlands. Though the Ptolemies were the main hellenistic influence in cyprus, Athens had close cultural/economic ties during the persian wars and classical era, and reviving this could be a conceivable stretch goal for an Athens that had already dominated the Aegean.

to summarize, I suggest replacing Narbonensis and Sikelea in Economic victory with Bithinya et Pontus and Thrace, and replacing Libya with Macedonia for cultural victory. Cyprus(Judea) could be a fitting additional challenge somewhere, maybe for military victory

Keep up the great work!

I think these are great suggestions and I will incorporate them as soon as possible. I like the idea of the cultural victory being geared towards controlling the Ionion colonies, rather than Greek colonies in general. With an emphasis on Black Sea and Cyprus for the economic victory.

[Olmsted]

I updated the link in the first thread and the Steam version to 1.52 (incorporating a couple of bug fixes to Boii and some adjustments to Athens). When you download it, it will still say v1.5, but the Steam picture icon will say v1.52.

[Olmsted]

I am in the process of incorporating lessons learned into my next version. Among other things, I intend to further lower the number of held regions (since that doesn't include ones held by allies). I'm aiming for 45 for Military, 30 for Economic, and 15 for Cultural (so long as there are other requirements for the faction which are likely to take a long time - e.g. building a level 5 temple).

[Olmsted]

I am in the process of incorporating lessons learned into my next version. Among other things, I intend to further lower the number of held regions (since that doesn't include ones held by allies). I'm aiming for 45 for Military, 30 for Economic, and 15 for Cultural (so long as there are other requirements for the faction which are likely to take a long time - e.g. building a level 5 temple).

[Fluke]

I agree with less regions held. Looking forward to your next update.

[Olmsted]

v1.53 is linked in the first post. I have also updated the Steam version.

Military Victory - must hold 45 regions
Economic - must hold 30 regions
Cultural - must have cultural dominance in at least one region in 15 different provinces

[Gasmio]

Hello is it changing the missions of every factions and is it historical accurate?
Thanks

[Olmsted]

Hello is it changing the missions of every factions and is it historical accurate?
Thanks

Yes, I changed the missions and victory conditions for every faction. Some more than others.

Is it historically accurate? No. If it was historically accurate, then Rome wins every time.

Is it logical? Yes. I considered history and geography in coming up with victory conditions for each faction. The idea was to give each faction slightly different goals so that victory did not require “painting the entire map a different color.”

[Bendit]

This is a great mod. Thanks Olmstead.

[Olmsted]

Now updated to v1.54 - compatible with DeI 1.2.6a

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xCC...ew?usp=sharing

[JesusFimbres]

Now updated to v1.54 - compatible with DeI 1.2.6a

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xCC...ew?usp=sharing

Hi Olmsted, what's new in this update ?

And in what are you working on for the next update? im very exciting with your submod. i'm playing a campaign with Bosporus and actually is in the final step. I have a suggestion, in military victory if you want yo finish the game with a empire level V, is impossible because you only have 12 armies (240 mens) and 6 fleets (120 mens). If you decrease from 400 to 350 mens the victory conditions finishing the game in empire level V is possible, I don't know if you would like my suggestion

Thank you for the submod is really good. Un abrazo

[Fluke]

Hi Olmsted, what's new in this update ?

And in what are you working on for the next update? im very exciting with your submod. i'm playing a campaign with Bosporus and actually is in the final step. I have a suggestion, in military victory if you want yo finish the game with a empire level V, is impossible because you only have 12 armies (240 mens) and 6 fleets (120 mens). If you decrease from 400 to 350 mens the victory conditions finishing the game in empire level V is possible, I don't know if you would like my suggestion

Thank you for the submod is really good. Un abrazo

A good suggestion, I hope this is implemented.

[Olmsted]

A good suggestion, I hope this is implemented.

I did implement a variation on this suggestion in the latest version, which is available as v2.0. v2.0 is fully compatible with DeI v1.2.7b

[Fluke]

I did implement a variation on this suggestion in the latest version, which is available as v2.0. v2.0 is fully compatible with DeI v1.2.7b

Thank you Olmsted.